8.9 Magnitude quake hits offshore Japan

[fanman]

The chernobyl comparisons are over-reactions. There was an excellent post by kirant on page 28 of this thread on the subject. All the leaked radiation so far has been from steam released.

^Most of the radiation particles released actually break down almost immediately upon release into the air. So yeah the levels could drop very quickly after a spike. The workers temporarily retreating is a precautionary measure, not an all is lost scenario. The only two types of particles that may pose a threat are Iodine and Caesium. Here is part of an article, I will post the link.

Radioactive iodine decays quite quickly. Most will have disappeared within a month. Radioactive caesium does not last long in the body - most has gone within a year. However, it lingers in the environment and can continue to present a problem for many years.

Also the Iodine is quite easy to prevent by taking Iodine pills or eating foods containing Iodine as your body will then not absorb any more Iodine.
Here's the link to the BBC article:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12732015

I recommend just turning off the CNN garbage. Starting to piss me off, I don't know how many hours I've just spent answering emails and skyping with family and friends who think I'm dying from radiation.

Another post from Paul Atkinson who just attended a conference in the British Embassy in Japan. Sorry it's a bit long:

I have just returned from a conference call held at the British Embassy in Tokyo. The call was concerning the nuclear issue in Japan. The chief spokesman was Sir. John Beddington, Chief Scientific Adviser to the UK Government, and he was joined by a number of qualified nuclear experts based in the UK. Their assessment of the current situation in Japan is as follows:

* In case of a 'reasonable worst case scenario' (defined as total meltdown of one reactor with subsequent radioactive explosion) an exclusion zone of 30 miles (50km) would be the maximum required to avoid affecting peoples' health. Even in a worse situation (loss of two or more reactors) it is unlikely that the damage would be significantly more than that caused by the loss of a single reactor.

* The current 20km exclusion zone is appropriate for the levels of radiation/risk currently experienced, and if the pouring of sea water can be maintained to cool the reactors, the likelihood of a major incident should be avoided. A further large quake with tsunami could lead to the suspension of the current cooling operations, leading to the above scenario.

* The bottom line is that these experts do not see there being a possibility of a health problem for residents in Tokyo. The radiation levels would need to be hundreds of times higher than current to cause the possibility for health issues, and that, in their opinion, is not going to happen (they were talking minimum levels affecting pregnant women and children - for normal adults the levels would need to be much higher still).

* The experts do not consider the wind direction to be material. They say Tokyo is too far away to be materially affected.

* If the pouring of water can be maintained the situation should be much improved after ten days, as the reactors' cores cool down.

* Information being provided by Japanese authorities is being independently monitored by a number of organizations and is deemed to be accurate, as far as measures of radioactivity levels are concerned.

* This is a very different situation from Chernobyl, where the reactor went into meltdown and the encasement, which exploded, was left to burn for weeks without any control. Even with Chernobyl, an exclusion zone of 30 miles would have been adequate to protect human health. The problem was that most people became sick from eating contaminated food, crops, milk and water in the region for years afterward, as no attempt was made to measure radioactivity levels in the food supply at that time or warn people of the dangers. The secrecy over the Chernobyl explosion is in contrast to the very public coverage of the Fukushima crisis.

* The Head of the British School asked if the school should remain closed. The answer was there is no need to close the school due to fears of radiation. There may well be other reasons - structural damage or possible new quakes - but the radiation fear is not supported by scientific measures, even for children.

* Regarding Iodine supplementation, the experts said this was only necessary for those who had inhaled quantities of radiation (those in the exclusion zone or workers on the site) or through consumption of contaminated food/water supplies. Long term consumption of iodine is, in any case, not healthy.

The discussion was surprisingly frank and to the point. The conclusion of the experts is that the damage caused by the earthquake and tsunami, as well as the subsequent aftershocks, was much more of an issue than the fear of radiation sickness from the nuclear plants.

Let's hope the experts are right!

So basically:
-Are the radiation levels in the evacuated zone dangerous: Yes
-Are the radiation levels in the surrounding prefectures dangerous and or lethal: No
-Is the plant going to blow up hollywood style like an atomic bomb: No
-Is every precautionary measure taken by the government here being blown out of proportion into some kind of doomsday sign: Yes
-Are the radiation leves dangerous to people in Japan farther away from the evac zone: No
-Are the radiation levels going to be dangerous to people out of country and worldwide: Ridiculous

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by fanman

The chernobyl comparisons are over-reactions. There was an excellent post by kirant on page 28 of this thread on the subject. All the leaked radiation so far has been from steam released.

Im not so sure that's the case any longer.

Something is going on in that plant that we aren't being made aware of. I even understand why they wouldnt make it public at this point, but that does not mean something isnt going dreadfully wrong.

When 4 of the 6 reactors have leaked radiation according to the Japanese PM and they pull the last of the workers out...the math is looking rather simple.

[secol]

right but in the case of the spent rods once the water in the holding tanks are all gone you're going to start getting combustion and things that can get up into the atmosphere and be carried off.....good to hear it's temporary since IMO in a case like this until you know you're screwed you can't give up

[transplant99]

And just to add to everything else...

A computer system that forecasts the spread of radioactivity has not been working due to malfunctioning monitoring posts around a troubled nuclear power plant in quake-hit Fukushima Prefecture.

The Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency says it does not know when the system will be back in operation

The agency says it cannot expect the SPEEDI system to function fully, since many monitoring posts are not operating due to power outages

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/16_16.html

[Pinner]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Im not so sure that's the case any longer.

Something is going on in that plant that we aren't being made aware of. I even understand why they wouldnt make it public at this point, but that does not mean something isnt going dreadfully wrong.

When 4 of the 6 reactors have leaked radiation according to the Japanese PM and they pull the last of the workers out...the math is looking rather simple.

How's the kool aid ?

[fanman]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Im not so sure that's the case any longer.

Something is going on in that plant that we aren't being made aware of. I even understand why they wouldnt make it public at this point, but that does not mean something isnt going dreadfully wrong.

When 4 of the 6 reactors have leaked radiation according to the Japanese PM and they pull the last of the workers out...the math is looking rather simple.

Turn off CNN.

Like I said before the workers temporarily retreating is simply a precautionary measure not an all is lost scenario. This isn't the first time they have pulled out temporarily since the big quake and tsunamis, and it probably won't be the last either until this is all over. Yes 4 out of 6 reactors have leaked radiation. It is not near dangerous levels outside of the evac zone. I recommend reading some of the earlier posts in this thread as there was some excellent posting and discussion on the subject.

The situation at the plant is serious yes, but not lethal to the country. In all likelyhood, when all is said and done the biggest problem coming out of this situation will be how they will replace all the power they need to the power grid in northeastern Japan. They can't keep the trains running sporadically forever as that would have a hugely negative impact on the economy which has already taken a big hit.

[fanman]

On a bit of a side note, actually just had a skype conversation in the wee hours this morning(in Japan time) with my mother because she was watching CNN and feared for my life. After I explained the situation here from another point of view she calmed down and made a very good point.

If they actually showed more of what the people in northern Japan are going through; thousands confirmed dead and tens of thousands missing and feared dead. Not to mention hundreds of thousands displaced and now homeless, many without adequate food and clean water supplies, they might be able to create more awareness of the situation which would help with getting aid and donations to the area. The rescue operations are being seriously hampered by constant quakes and aftershocks, which if centered offshore bring the threat of another tsunami. Instead of just focusing on fear-mongering about the troubled nuclear reactors. Over-using phrases like meltdown, critical, nuclear catastrophe, etc., and attaching them to mental images of widespread destruction and deathly disease while seemingly ignoring a lot of the facts, often doing a poor job in translating Japanese to English, and flubbing some of the numbers.

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by fanman

On a bit of a side note, actually just had a skype conversation in the wee hours this morning(in Japan time) with my mother because she was watching CNN and feared for my life. After I explained the situation here from another point of view she calmed down and made a very good point.

If they actually showed more of what the people in northern Japan are going through; thousands confirmed dead and tens of thousands missing and feared dead. Not to mention hundreds of thousands displaced and now homeless, many without adequate food and clean water supplies, they might be able to create more awareness of the situation which would help with getting aid and donations to the area. The rescue operations are being seriously hampered by constant quakes and aftershocks, which if centered offshore bring the threat of another tsunami. Instead of just focusing on fear-mongering about the troubled nuclear reactors. Over-using phrases like meltdown, critical, nuclear catastrophe, etc., and attaching them to mental images of widespread destruction and deathly disease while seemingly ignoring a lot of the facts, often doing a poor job in translating Japanese to English, and flubbing some of the numbers.

Oh come on, thats not news for ratings. Its funny some posters seem to be buying the nuclear apocalypse talk hook line and sinker.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by fanman

On a bit of a side note, actually just had a skype conversation in the wee hours this morning(in Japan time) with my mother because she was watching CNN and feared for my life. After I explained the situation here from another point of view she calmed down and made a very good point.

If they actually showed more of what the people in northern Japan are going through; thousands confirmed dead and tens of thousands missing and feared dead. Not to mention hundreds of thousands displaced and now homeless, many without adequate food and clean water supplies, they might be able to create more awareness of the situation which would help with getting aid and donations to the area. The rescue operations are being seriously hampered by constant quakes and aftershocks, which if centered offshore bring the threat of another tsunami. Instead of just focusing on fear-mongering about the troubled nuclear reactors. Over-using phrases like meltdown, critical, nuclear catastrophe, etc., and attaching them to mental images of widespread destruction and deathly disease while seemingly ignoring a lot of the facts, often doing a poor job in translating Japanese to English, and flubbing some of the numbers.

Well to be fair the overseeing agency in France commented that this would be more severe than 3 mile island and not quite at the level of Chernobyl (which is the worst ever to date). I don't think that using words like catastrophe, critical etc. is over doing it in that light?

[CrusaderPi]

I think the point is, which event is of greater magnitude. The earthquake / tsunami or the reactor going meltdown?

[PIMking]

Yet Fox news is the only news agency that fear mongers....

[WhiteTiger]

Here's a site with some unreal before and after images. Just...mind blowing.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/events/ja...eforeafter.htm

[fanman]

Some more facts on the current situation.

http://altjapan.typepad.com/my_weblo...ould-i-go.html

[burn_this_city]

Originally Posted by fanman

Some more facts on the current situation.

http://altjapan.typepad.com/my_weblo...ould-i-go.html

A big issue in all of this is the media's inability to distinguish between a microsievert and a millisievert. They keep posting everything in millisieverts which makes it sound like Chernobyl 2.0. Fact is over 60 tonnes of radioactive material exploded into the atmosphere at Chernobyl, nothing even close to that kind of release has taken place in Japan.

[fanman]

Originally Posted by Slava

Well to be fair the overseeing agency in France commented that this would be more severe than 3 mile island and not quite at the level of Chernobyl (which is the worst ever to date). I don't think that using words like catastrophe, critical etc. is over doing it in that light?

More like not even close to Chernobyl level. I'm not going to try to discredit the French overseeing agency as I'm not a nuclear expert myself. However I'm more inclined to believe someone like, Sir. John Beddington, Chief Scientific Adviser to the UK Government, who is actually in Japan right now and as such probably has a much better handle on the specific details and information of the situation. He and his colleagues findings are stated in an above post on this page, and are being echoed by scientists and experts in Japan. The word catastrophe might be applicable to the plant grounds itself and some of the evacuated radius, but not elsewhere.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

Radiation in Tokyo 20x normal according to CNN. Anyone still think this isn't a big deal?

20x the normal radiation in Tokyo is about the normal radiation we get in Calgary because we're at a higher elevation.

It's been said many times... turn off CNN.

[DownInFlames]

Originally Posted by fanman

On a bit of a side note, actually just had a skype conversation in the wee hours this morning(in Japan time) with my mother because she was watching CNN and feared for my life. After I explained the situation here from another point of view she calmed down and made a very good point.

If they actually showed more of what the people in northern Japan are going through; thousands confirmed dead and tens of thousands missing and feared dead. Not to mention hundreds of thousands displaced and now homeless, many without adequate food and clean water supplies, they might be able to create more awareness of the situation which would help with getting aid and donations to the area. The rescue operations are being seriously hampered by constant quakes and aftershocks, which if centered offshore bring the threat of another tsunami. Instead of just focusing on fear-mongering about the troubled nuclear reactors. Over-using phrases like meltdown, critical, nuclear catastrophe, etc., and attaching them to mental images of widespread destruction and deathly disease while seemingly ignoring a lot of the facts, often doing a poor job in translating Japanese to English, and flubbing some of the numbers.

It's sad how American media focuses on the sensational, especially when there's even a tiny chance that the story could affect America (eg. fallout) when there are so many people suffering still, and are being ignored.

[Jedi Ninja]

Originally Posted by opendoor

I think some sources are mixing up millisieverts (mSv) and microsieverts (μSv). The highest reading I've heard is 8271 μSv which is 8.271 mSv. Those exposures listed above as well as the Chernobyl readings are mSv, each of which is 1000 μSv. That 400 reading reported was probably in μSv, as I'm not aware of any reports of anything higher than 8 mSv.

It was reported in the press conference last night. There are so many different numbers being thrown around now, I was beginning to wonder what I had heard, but here is the same information from NHK world:
http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/15_37.html

Chief Cabinet Secretary Yukio Edano says the level of radiation around the quake-damaged Fukushima No.1 nuclear power plant is high enough to affect human health.

Edano told reporters on Tuesday morning that 400 millisieverts of radiation per hour had been detected around the plant's No.3 reactor building at 10:22 AM.

He cited reports claiming that it is highly likely the containment vessel at the No.2 reactor building had been damaged. He added that the No.1, No.2 and No.3 reactors are all releasing hazardous radioactive material.

The figure 400 millisieverts, or 400,000 microsieverts, is 4 times higher than the acceptable level of radiation for humans. Such levels could lead to a loss of white blood cells.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Pinner

How's the kool aid ?

About the same as the condescending BS attitiude.

Its funny some posters seem to be buying the nuclear apocalypse talk hook line and sinker.

Who would that be??


People are looking for information on this whole thing, these kind of comments do nothing whatsoever to add to the overall level of the discussion. Brutal.

[fanman]

A few tidbits of good news for a change.

As the tragic situation in Japan goes from bad to worse, Uniqlo is getting behind its home country by donating $25.6 million to the earthquake/tsunami relief fund. The Japanese retailer has donated approximately $8.6 million in clothing and $17 million in cash to the Japanese Red Cross Society. Of that amount, $12 million alone has come from Uniqlo CEO Tadashi Yanai, who is worth $9.2 billion and is Forbes' richest man in Japan.
It seems appropriate, due to the current climate in Japan, that the clothing being offered has been sourced from Uniqlo's HeatTech line, which is created from heat-generated fabrics to retain warmth in freezing temperatures. For the survivors of this crisis, this donation will be vital in their recovery as they continue to battle extremely cold conditions without shelter.

For those who don't know, UNIQLO is a large clothing retail chain based here in Japan.

Also just saw on the news a few large trucks arriving at a couple of shelters full of water and blankets which were donated by IKEA. The boxes of blankets had friendly messages written on them from the employees who packaged and sent them, some in English some in Swedish(looked like Swedish but I'm not 100% sure).

Just like to give a big kudos to Mr. Yanai of UNIQLO for his huge donation, IKEA, and anyone who has donated something big or small.