The Ongoing Coyotes Sale Thread

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by valo403

Because the threat of suit has pushed up the rate, making the sale harder, if not impossible, to complete. The suit doesn't have to be succesful legally for GWI to achieve their goal.

Mind you they could proceed in order to precipitate the suit, obviously selling no more than a few bonds, which would then allow a court to rule, which would, assuming the court ruled the sale was legal, enable them to sell the remaining shares.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Mind you they could proceed in order to precipitate the suit, obviously selling no more than a few bonds, which would then allow a court to rule, which would, assuming the court ruled the sale was legal, enable them to sell the remaining shares.

I suspect that time pressures are the issue with pursuing that path of action, although it may be possible to win a preliminary injunction against GWI (might be tough given the nature of the suit), which would likely send a strong enough message to pull down the rate on the bonds. It's hard to know whether it's a legal issue holding things up now or if its become more of a business issue.

[Jets4Life]

Originally Posted by valo403

I suspect that time pressures are the issue with pursuing that path of action, although it may be possible to win a preliminary injunction against GWI (might be tough given the nature of the suit), which would likely send a strong enough message to pull down the rate on the bonds. It's hard to know whether it's a legal issue holding things up now or if its become more of a business issue.

The NHL knows it's over. They are just delaying the inevitable. When the Coyotes get knocked out of the playoffs (first round), they will announce the team is moving to Winnipeg the following afternoon.

[JBR]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Mind you they could proceed in order to precipitate the suit, obviously selling no more than a few bonds, which would then allow a court to rule, which would, assuming the court ruled the sale was legal, enable them to sell the remaining shares.

This wouldn't actually work. Prior to selling any bonds, they must secure commitments for all $100M... only then are the bonds sold.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

I also don't understand why, if Glendale and Hulsizer know that the bonds are legal, why they wouldn't just proceed? It seems to me that they know they aren't legal, or at best gray area.

Glendale wont proceed because they don't want to (or can't) pay the extra $100M the higher rate would result in over the course of the bonds.

Hulsizer wont proceed until he can get the $ from Glendale.

The NHL wont proceed until they get the $ from Hulsizer.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by JBR

This wouldn't actually work. Prior to selling any bonds, they must secure commitments for all $100M... only then are the bonds sold.

Well it wouldn't work with the deal as structured now, but knowing that the GI would certainly challange the deal, a structure that split the issue, creating a smaller test issue first or something of that nature must have been a possibility.

There is a law and a group that works to uphold it so it is a good idea, if you are the council, to find some way of answering the question of the legality of the bond issue first.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

Glendale wont proceed because they don't want to (or can't) pay the extra $100M the higher rate would result in over the course of the bonds.

Hulsizer wont proceed until he can get the $ from Glendale.

The NHL wont proceed until they get the $ from Hulsizer.

So, they won't proceed because they know that the deal will certainly fall through if they don't proceed? That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

The only way this deal could possibly work for them is if they do proceed, and win a threatened lawsuit. If they knew that what they are doing is legal, they woulld have proceeded as soon as it became apparent that GWI wasn't going to back down.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

The NHL knows it's over. They are just delaying the inevitable. When the Coyotes get knocked out of the playoffs (first round), they will announce the team is moving to Quebec City the following afternoon.

Fyp

[LChoy]

Sorry if this is a dumb question

What's GoldWater's Stake in this? Is there a benefit to them if they sale falls through, or are they acting on behalf of the taxpayers in the city?

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Well it wouldn't work with the deal as structured now, but knowing that the GI would almost certainly challange the deal a structure that split the issue into a smaller test issue first or something of that nature.

There is a law and a group that works to uphold it so it is a good idea, if you are the council, to find some way of answering the question of the legality of the bond issue first.

I don't really get what you're saying. Throw out a $10M bond to wait for a suit?

Goldwater's suit is based on the purchase of parking rights for $100M as well as the management fees, not simply selling bonds. GWI could just wait to file a suit until that transaction takes place.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

So, they won't proceed because they know that the deal will certainly fall through if they don't proceed? That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

The only way this deal could possibly work for them is if they do proceed, and win a threatened lawsuit. If they knew that what they are doing is legal, they woulld have proceeded as soon as it became apparent that GWI wasn't going to back down.

I don't think you are understanding how a bond issuance works.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Lchoy

Sorry if this is a dumb question

What's GoldWater's Stake in this? Is there a benefit to them if they sale falls through, or are they acting on behalf of the taxpayers in the city?

They are a watchdog organization, saying that they protect taxpayers.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Lchoy

Sorry if this is a dumb question

What's GoldWater's Stake in this? Is there a benefit to them if they sale falls through, or are they acting on behalf of the taxpayers in the city?

They are a right wing think tank, much like the Fraser Institute here, they get no direct benefit from this, although as a right wing think tank in an incrediably right wing state, if they can sink the deal through the application of the law, they obviously will get more donations and raise their profile.

I should point out they are a very respected national organization, not just some local group of nimbys

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by valo403

I don't think you are understanding how a bond issuance works.

I know I don't know fully how it works.

However, like I said, it's apparent that leaving it at the stalemate the situation right now means that the NHL will just pull up and sell the team to someone in another city, sooner rather than later.

Doing nothing means that the deal will fall apart soon. Issuing the bonds means that something will be done, and at least the courts can take care or it. At least then there is a slim chance that the deal can go through.

Let me know if that's not correct.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

So, they won't proceed because they know that the deal will certainly fall through if they don't proceed? That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

The only way this deal could possibly work for them is if they do proceed, and win a threatened lawsuit. If they knew that what they are doing is legal, they woulld have proceeded as soon as it became apparent that GWI wasn't going to back down.

It has been suggested that they (Glendale) has just been getting the finger-pointing ready because they know GWI wont back down so they can't get the lower rates, hoping the NHL will kill the deal (so they can save face). That's just speculation of course but it seems as plausible as thinking they believe that the rates will decrease because Goldwater will back down.

As for it not making sense, you're right on the money there. Nothing in this whole thing makes much sense.

Originally Posted by Lchoy

Sorry if this is a dumb question

What's GoldWater's Stake in this? Is there a benefit to them if they sale falls through, or are they acting on behalf of the taxpayers in the city?

Their stake (as they tell it) is that they can say they upheld Arizona's constitution and protected taxpayers. Ideally they'd hope for donations from people who share a similar view that taxpayers shouldn't be propping up private businesses and such.

Either way its about money really.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

I don't really get what you're saying. Throw out a $10M bond to wait for a suit?

Goldwater's suit is based on the purchase of parking rights for $100M as well as the management fees, not simply selling bonds. GWI could just wait to file a suit until that transaction takes place.

They could but their aim is to test the law, they have no particular reason to screw with the council or the bond issue, they arn't some group of random wackos, they are an award winning legal advocacy group and their aim is not to screw the deal per say but to uphold the law which I think they had some part in drafting.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Doing nothing means that the deal will fall apart soon. Issuing the bonds means that something will be done, and at least the courts can take care or it. At least then there is a slim chance that the deal can go through.

Let me know if that's not correct.

But at the higher rates even if the deal does go wouldn't be (as) good for the city.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

They could but their aim is to test the law, they have no particular reason to screw with the council or the bond issue, if you think this is some group of random wackos you are wrong, they are an award winning legal advocacy group and their aim is not to screw the deal per say but to uphold the law which I think they had some part in drafting.

What do you mean "test the law"?

Selling a bond isn't illegal, Glendale could sell $1B in bonds so long as they can justify the cost, its what they're being used for that is up for contention. For this deal to work Hulsizer will need $100M from the city for parking rights. Aside from just going through with the deal, how can they test the law?

[PegCityFlamesFan]

The NHL knows it's over. They are just delaying the inevitable. When the Coyotes get knocked out of the playoffs (first round), they will announce the team is moving to Quebec City the following afternoon.

Really?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

What do you mean "test the law"?

Selling a bond isn't illegal, Glendale could sell $1B in bonds so long as they can justify the cost, its what they're being used for that is up for contention. For this deal to work Hulsizer will need $100M from the city for parking rights. Aside from just going through with the deal, how can they test the law?

They should go ahead with the deal and stop whinning about a set of utterly predictable factors affecting the price.
There is nothing here that couldn't have been foreseen, we know full well that the deal may be ilegal, will be challeanged and that uncertainty will affect the price of the bonds.