The Ongoing Coyotes Sale Thread

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Oh I aint saying it would happen, just that roads and the like are a small problem if someone wants to shovle enough cash at it.

If they want to shovel enough cash at it, they'll build a new rink on a site that has enough room for an NHL sized rink.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Easily. The "Winnipeg compares to Nashville/Columbus" argument assumes Winnipeg is selling out every game, where Nashville and Columbus obviously are not. This is actually an argument that has consistently been made from day one: Winnipeg's top end is no better than existing mediocrity.

You're assuming that the revenue report is using a sell-out situation. That's not realistic at all. You'd have to think they're expecting not all nights to sell out over the long term.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

You're assuming that the revenue report is using a sell-out situation. That's not realistic at all. You'd have to think they're expecting not all nights to sell out over the long term.

That's not what all the kool aid drinking Jets fans are claiming. Sure sellouts!!! Every night!! Only the cheap seats are missing in the undersized rink!!

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

i remember the good old days when guys like george gillete bought hockey teams with thier own money and a big public bond offering was not needed......

i think brunt nailed it yesterday when he said that he thought the nhl likely wishes it would have been able to strike a deal with jimmy b who was willing to overpay for the team with cash and provide the COG with a parting gift.......

Nonsensical argument.

he wanted to move the club without paying any territorial rights and without going through the proper process...why has that changed?

He buys the team...he stays in Phoenix, and that was something he was unwilling to do.

Does he have an agreement with MTS? Because no matter what he is not going to get Hamilton at this point.

[TorqueDog]

What Matthew Hulsizer was quoted as saying: "We have everything we need to close..."

The part that was cut off of his quote: "... except what we need to close."

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

If they want to shovel enough cash at it, they'll build a new rink on a site that has enough room for an NHL sized rink.

You would think that, of course I am watching a piece of crap stadium in Vancouver getting a barely functionable new roof for damn near the price of a new stadium so who can say!

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

You're assuming that the revenue report is using a sell-out situation. That's not realistic at all. You'd have to think they're expecting not all nights to sell out over the long term.

Yes I, and everyone else on both sides of the debate, have been making such an assumption. However, given Columbus averaged a bit over 15k last year (down to 13.8k this), while Nashville is averaging 15k this year (up from around 14 last), assuming that Winnipeg is comparable at the same attendance is reasonable. The difference is that Winnipeg at 15k is the top end, no room for growth, while every other market in the NHL can grow from 15k.

Keep in mind that both Columbus and Nashville are revenue sharing recipients, and if Winnipeg is said to be comparable, would also be a revenue sharing collector. In order to fully qualify, Winnipeg would have to sell out, or start losing their share.

All of these arguments assume complete sellouts for a reason.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Nonsensical argument.

he wanted to move the club without paying any territorial rights and without going through the proper process...why has that changed?

He buys the team...he stays in Phoenix, and that was something he was unwilling to do.

Does he have an agreement with MTS? Because no matter what he is not going to get Hamilton at this point.

Add in his behaviour on the Predators sale, and I would suggest Brunt is doing some serious drugs if he thinks the league is having second thoughts on Balsillie.

Don't get me wrong though. I would love to see him owning a team in Hamilton. His war with the Maple Leafs would make for great entertainment!

[Mazrim]

Sure, that's fine. The point is that Winnipeg getting 85% attendance is still better than Atlanta at 40%, regardless of the ability to grow. If the Thompson group is okay with having a revenue ceiling, then why would NHL say no to it? If Columbus continues to miss the playoffs, I imagine their average will not go up much either.

[Resolute 14]

And Atlanta at 85% is better than Winnipeg at 40%. See what I did there?

[PegCityFlamesFan]

The problem there is that Atlanta has/is/never will be at 80%.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

You're assuming that the revenue report is using a sell-out situation. That's not realistic at all. You'd have to think they're expecting not all nights to sell out over the long term.

If the Jets average ticket price is $60 chances are they will sell out.

15,000 * 60 = 900,000 game



San Jose at $43 and a state of the art arena seating 17,750 and one of the winningest team in a decade max revenue per game: 763,000 game

So basically Winnipeg can have an average ticket price of $50 and have the same revenue as best San Jose can do.



Average ticket prices Jan 2010 from forbes

Columbus - 51
Carolina - 38
NYI - 51
Nashville - 48
TB 36
Atlanta 46
Phoenix 37
St. L 44
Florida 49
Buffalo 36
anahiem 44
San Jose 43
Washington 45
Colorado 60
Minnesota 61
LA 47
NJD 48
Dallas 50
Pittsburgh 56


Edmonton 60
Ottawa 56
Calgary 60
Vancouver 65

[c.t.ner]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

If the Jets average ticket price is $60 chances are they will sell out.

Average ticket prices Jan 2010 from forbes

Washington 45

Sorry, I know you're quoting an article from Forbes magazine, but I have to call BS on this number.

I've been living in The District for over a year and a half now and I have never seen a special or even offer for a caps ticket for less than 65 dollars. Have a quick look at Ticketmaster and the lowest ticket is $63 dollars straight up.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by c.t.ner

Sorry, I know you're quoting an article from Forbes magazine, but I have to call BS on this number.

I've been living in The District for over a year and a half now and I have never seen a special or even offer for a caps ticket for less than 65 dollars. Have a quick look at Ticketmaster and the lowest ticket is $63 dollars straight up.

I would guess the 45 is a season ticket price?

[Jordan!]

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...n.html?ana=twt

According to sources close to the inner-workings of the deal, the new Coyotes sale plan could entail:
• Reducing the amount of City of Glendale bonds for Hulsizer and the Coyotes from $100 million down to $70 million.
• Having the National Hockey League discount its estimated $170 million asking price for the team, plus this year’s $25 million to $30 million in losses it wants covered by Glendale or Hulsizer.
• Asking Hulsizer to contribute more than the current estimated $70 million he is putting into the transaction.
• Possibly leveraging $25 million Glendale previously allocated to help cover the Coyotes losses this season.
• Hoping the reduced bonds amount and financial changes lessen legal opposition to the deal from the Goldwater Institute watchdog group.


Read more: Last-ditch Coyotes deal could be in the works | Phoenix Business Journal

[Resolute 14]

IIRC, those average ticket prices don't include luxury suites either.

Average ticket price =/= revenue generated per seat. As noted, season ticket holders pay less, and there are always tickets given away, even if just a couple hundred per game.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Bouw N Arrow

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...n.html?ana=twt

According to sources close to the inner-workings of the deal, the new Coyotes sale plan could entail:
• Reducing the amount of City of Glendale bonds for Hulsizer and the Coyotes from $100 million down to $70 million.
• Having the National Hockey League discount its estimated $170 million asking price for the team, plus this year’s $25 million to $30 million in losses it wants covered by Glendale or Hulsizer.
• Asking Hulsizer to contribute more than the current estimated $70 million he is putting into the transaction.
• Possibly leveraging $25 million Glendale previously allocated to help cover the Coyotes losses this season.
• Hoping the reduced bonds amount and financial changes lessen legal opposition to the deal from the Goldwater Institute watchdog group.


Read more: Last-ditch Coyotes deal could be in the works | Phoenix Business Journal

Just about everyone with a connection to the NHL who has commented on Twitter is calling bullcrap. The general opinion is "The NHL is going to eat some losses here? LOL"

[c.t.ner]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

IIRC, those average ticket prices don't include luxury suites either.

Average ticket price =/= revenue generated per seat. As noted, season ticket holders pay less, and there are always tickets given away, even if just a couple hundred per game.

Interesting. I'd still gander to say that is a very low value for Washington and for San Jose (and other markets) - even with factoring in Season Ticket holder price values and free tickets. The information also points to January 2010, so I doubt that those ticket values are from the 2009-10 season and are probably based on the 2008-09 season.

Personally, I don't see these values as a good metric to forecast the success of the Jets in the near future. If as the OP suggested the average ticket price in Winnipeg is 60 dollars, than the average walk up face value for a ticket to a Jets game would have to be closer to 75-80 dollars. (With the basis that Walk-up ticket sales have a higher face value). That's an expensive proposition for a single game for such a small population base.

[troutman]

Glendale Teabaggers getting involved:

NHL top brass in town, while Glendale Tea Party plans Coyotes protest
http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blo...insider/121332

UPDATE: Fox Sports Arizona producer Graham Taylor reports Bettman will be interviewed tonight during the first intermission of the Coyotes vs. Vancouver Canucks game to update fans and viewers on the saga in Glendale.

Meanwhile, the Glendale Tea Party Patriots are planning to protest Glendale's deal with Coyotes buyer Matthew Hulsizer outside a community meeting Mayor Elaine Scruggs has called next week.

In a letter to the mayor, McHugh called the deal "risks in which we do not want to participate."

"Please be aware that many of our members are educated professionals, and very intellectual and knowledgeable (we've done our homework)".

[Resolute 14]

Intellectual and knowledgeable are two words that I would never use to describe a tea bagger.