The Ongoing Coyotes Sale Thread

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by moon

Where is that mythical place?

There is nowhere that is going to come close to making money like that except a 2nd team in TO.

If it was that easy to get a situation like that teams would already be there.

Well that gets into the business of the NHL. Some would say there are already too many teams.

On the other hand, while there are buyers lining up in Winnipeg and Quebec (and maybe elsewhere), clearly they believe they can not only carry the cost, but make money. And that would mean money going back to the other owners, too.

Wasn't it PT Barnum who said "There's a sucker born every minute."?

But - some of those "suckers" have bet on weirder things and made an awful lot of dough.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by valo403

Quote:
Originally Posted by taxbuster
Irrelevant in both constructs.

Huh?

Bullying or not - the issue is completely irrelevant to the discussion. This will be a legal issue, not a muscle one. So whether one side or the other, or both are attempting bullying simply doesn't matter.

(And yes, I do get your point.)

[mikephoen]

Originally Posted by Lester

No he really doesn't. GWI has done nothing to bully anyone. They're a non profit agency with no agenda here other than to protect the tax payers from politicians who want to rip them off.

Everyone has an agenda.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

Bullying or not - the issue is completely irrelevant to the discussion. This will be a legal issue, not a muscle one. So whether one side or the other, or both are attempting bullying simply doesn't matter.

(And yes, I do get your point.)

I don't know about that, it could very well turn into a legal issue but at this point muscle is very much in play. Both parties are attempting to 'muscle' their way into getting this deal done/killed, the threat of it turning into a legal battle is likely a result that neither party actually wants to come to fruition. There's an element of 'who will blink first' to this whole thing, it really only becomes a legal battle if both parties hold strong.

[taxbuster]

Originally Posted by valo403

I don't know about that, it could very well turn into a legal issue but at this point muscle is very much in play. Both parties are attempting to 'muscle' their way into getting this deal done/killed, the threat of it turning into a legal battle is likely a result that neither party actually wants to come to fruition. There's an element of 'who will blink first' to this whole thing, it really only becomes a legal battle if both parties hold strong.

I wonder though, if the old thing about a weak argument provoking a strong response hods here. If CofG's argument is weak, they'll try to bully (to use that expression) GI into blinking. I'd think more that way than GI trying to bully CofG - as the city would simply tell 'em to **** off and do their worst.

The fact that the city has 'negotiated' (or whatever it was -- discussed?) the issue with GI makes me wonder if the city's case is not strong.

Whichever - fun to watch!!

[valo403]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

I wonder though, if the old thing about a weak argument provoking a strong response hods here. If CofG's argument is weak, they'll try to bully (to use that expression) GI into blinking. I'd think more that way than GI trying to bully CofG - as the city would simply tell 'em to **** off and do their worst.

The fact that the city has 'negotiated' (or whatever it was -- discussed?) the issue with GI makes me wonder if the city's case is not strong.

Whichever - fun to watch!!

I think Glendale's negotiating had more to do with speeding up the process and preventing negative impacts on the bond pricing than the strength of their argument, but who knows.

And you're right, it certainly is fun to watch.

[afc wimbledon]

I supect the problem for the city is the GI is a reletively poor (700k) organization made up largely of lawyers, it therefore costs the GI relatively little to fight a lawsuit, they don't have enough assets to cover the cities costs, let alone any awards.
If they lose they declare chapter 11 and close down, all of the players will move on to or found other right wing think tanks and their work continues.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I supect the problem for the city is the GI is a reletively poor (700k) organization made up largely of lawyers, it therefore costs the GI relatively little to fight a lawsuit, they don't have enough assets to cover the cities costs, let alone any awards.
If they lose they declare chapter 11 and close down, all of the players will move on to or found other right wing think tanks and their work continues.

Hence the inclusion of Goldwater members personally, putting their assets on the line as opposed to just those of Goldwater.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by valo403

Hence the inclusion of Goldwater members personally, putting their assets on the line as opposed to just those of Goldwater.

I realise that but I doubt that dog will hunt, call me a cynic but I can't see to many judges wanting to screw over their friends, major contributors and fellow country club members.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

I realise that but I doubt that dog will hunt, call me a cynic but I can't see to many judges wanting to screw over their friends, major contributors and fellow country club members.

I think you have a pretty inaccurate view of the legal system.

[Lester]

The burden of proof for CoG to sue them and win is immense. I dont think CGI is concerned, nor the members named. It's a desperation hail mary tactic.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by valo403

I think you have a pretty inaccurate view of the legal system.

Maybe, but we arn't talking the legal system, we are talking Arizona Politics

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by Jets4Life

source?

http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepu...#ixzz1FnXKL4lZ

[troutman]

Originally Posted by valo403

Hence the inclusion of Goldwater members personally, putting their assets on the line as opposed to just those of Goldwater.

Glendale City councillors can be sued personally too. This could get real nasty.

[tjinaz]

For $500mil against GWI.

Interesting that GWI actually sent letters to brokerage houses.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...-suit0306.html

[automaton 3]

The City of Glendale's actions through this mess have IMO contained elements of both intransigence and randomness, for lack of better terms.

This threat of this particular lawsuit looks like a hail mary. How launching such an action helps their current project is beyond me. Do they hope that Goldwater will immediately throw in the towel and whimper off? An unlikely result from what we've seen so far.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by troutman

Glendale City councillors can be sued personally too. This could get real nasty.

It can't really get nasty. The team will be in Winnipeg before the middle of next week if this thing gets off the ground. I don't see that as a probable outcome.

From what I'm hearing, the NHL is trying to find two or three investors to purchase the $116 million in bonds at the current interest rate (8%). If/when Goldwater backs down from their position that will get much easier (and the interest rate may even drop).

However, I'm also hearing that there may be investors interested either way (Daly is going hard on this) and once the bonds are purchased the lawsuit is meaningless unless Glendale decides to alter it to collect the extra interest they will have to pay. I don't think that they'll do that as they're already involved in one lawsuit with Goldwater and don't want another. Nor do they want to potentially expose the illegality of their deal and perhaps risk blowing the whole thing up.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

For $500mil against GWI.

Interesting that GWI actually sent letters to brokerage houses.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...-suit0306.html

The city is expected to sue for significant damages, a source close to the deal said, potentially as much as $500 million, the amount of economic impact Glendale estimates it would lose if the NHL team left for Canada. It could name members of the Goldwater board individually.

Such claims are dubious. I think Winnipeg discovered the economic impact of the Jets leaving was minimal. Entertainment $/taxes/jobs just get shifted elsewhere in the community.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by カナダ人です

Did the NHL/Bettman work this hard to keep the Jets in Winnipeg? All I remember is the "Save the Jets" campaign, but I think that was a fan-based initiative.

Honestly, I don't remember.

Shenkarow made it clear around 1993 or 1994 that he wanted out, and the league spent two years trying to help find a new owner. When a first bid to buy the team in 1994 failed, the team actually nearly moved to Minnesota for 1994-95, but instead stuck around in time for the Spirit of Manitoba bid to attempt, and fail, to land the team. Finally, it was sold to Phoenix interests.

Overall, the league did not work as hard as it did in the 2000s for Pittsburgh, Nashville, Phoenix, etc, and I recall Bettman in the past admitting that as a consequence of the 90s relocations, the league has made retaining existing markets a much greater priority in these cases.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by troutman

The city is expected to sue for significant damages, a source close to the deal said, potentially as much as $500 million, the amount of economic impact Glendale estimates it would lose if the NHL team left for Canada. It could name members of the Goldwater board individually.

Such claims are dubious. I think Winnipeg discovered the economic impact of the Jets leaving was minimal. Entertainment $/taxes/jobs just get shifted elsewhere in the community.

Sure, except that Glendale would be left with a lot of debt on an arena and no real way to pay it down without a major tenant, so there does appear to be legitimate damages for the city if the team leaves.