Ring Road To Nowhere

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by Pinner

To put the road through Lakeview 500 houses need to be destroyed

Is this one of those empty threat numbers given by the community association again, or a hard number from the government's reports? Reminds me of the $500 million airport tunnel.

Originally Posted by Pinner

And how many more will be depreciated because a freeway now runs through the neighborhood ?

Ask the people in the NW how their property value is now that they're adjacent to Stoney. You'd be surprised.

Originally Posted by Pinner

From an outsider's view, those Natives got you guys buy the balls. They'd build a casino on the burial grounds if they needed that particular location.

I don't think anyone would argue against what you said there. It's an unfortunate situation.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

Ask the people in the NW how their property value is now that they're adjacent to Stoney. You'd be surprised.

There's a big difference between living adjacent to a freeway right of way with a 150 m buffer between you and the actual freeway and being right up against a highway. To create any sort of buffer and to accommodate a 37th street right-of-way, you'd have to destroy hundreds of homes - not only in lakeview, but in Glamorgan to accomodate interchanges.

There's gotta be a better alternative than 1950s style blockbusting.

[Mazrim]

You seem to be assuming there's no way to separate the road and the neighbourhood in a small right-of-way. Even in tight situations it's quite possible. I mean, no situation will likely satisfy residents there, but to suggest that in 2011 there are no better ways to seperate highways and houses in constricted areas is silly.

Unless you start talking to the Tsuu Tina again, the options are limited.

[mykalberta]

There is, it would be proper planning in 1950 to exclude negotiating with Tsu Tina from original planning. The beaurocrat who thought it would be a good idea to leave he ring road in the hands of a 3rd party should have his/her retirement home egged for stupidity.

If there is a better alternative no one has has brought it forward unless you consider Tsu Tina and thats likely not a viable alternative. Its hard to imagine that for relatively the same money and land offered that a different mayor could be the tipping point on an issue that at its heart was the mistrust of the Federal Government by the Tsu Tina to hand over land after the cash deal was completed.

Stelmach was many things, but now that he is gone the Tsu Tina arent going to find a government more willing to work to get this done. We are going back to the gladiator arenas when it comes to negotiating with this province. No more bigger carrot negotiating.

[WilsonFourTwo]

Originally Posted by Pinner

To put the road through Lakeview 500 houses need to be destroyed

And how many more will be depreciated because a freeway now runs through the neighborhood ?

From an outsider's view, those Natives got you guys buy the balls. They'd build a casino on the burial grounds if they needed that particular location.

I live right next to where the proposed ring road will come through. Seeing how things ended up in the NW and NE, I have no doubt that it will have a significantly positive impact on property value.

And ya, the Natives do have the community by the short and curlys. I REALLY don't like it, but it's their land, I suppose. I do happen to think that they should have to build (and pay for) their own access road to the casino. And it'll go where we tell them, not necessarily where they'd prefer it.

[Old Yeller]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

If there is a better alternative no one has has brought it forward unless you consider Tsu Tina and thats likely not a viable alternative. Its hard to imagine that for relatively the same money and land offered that a different mayor could be the tipping point on an issue that at its heart was the mistrust of the Federal Government by the Tsu Tina to hand over land after the cash deal was completed.

Negotiations were between the Province of Alberta and the Tsuu Tsina.

Neither negotiated in good faith in my opinion.

[WilsonFourTwo]

^^ Sure seems that way, agreed.

It's not like talks stalled/failed one time. It's a decades-long dickaround that both parties have been a part of.

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by Old Yeller

Negotiations were between the Province of Alberta and the Tsuu Tsina.

Neither negotiated in good faith in my opinion.

Elected officials of Canada, Alberta, and Tsu Tina came to an agreement. Tsu Tina dont have a direct representative form of government so it was brought before the general populous to vote on it and they declined.

With the winds of change of Alberta politics there is likely not going to be an increase in cash from the Province's side. I think the deal that was in place was the best possible deal for both sides.

Thats after decades of negotiation. Without extra cash going to Tsu Tina I dont see this deal happening, and I dont see the province offering up any extra money meaning its dead. There is no point in looking to the past on these things.

[Handsome B. Wonderful]

Originally Posted by Pinner

To put the road through Lakeview 500 houses need to be destroyed

And nothing of value was lost.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Elected officials of Canada, Alberta, and Tsu Tina came to an agreement. Tsu Tina dont have a direct representative form of government so it was brought before the general populous to vote on it and they declined.

With the winds of change of Alberta politics there is likely not going to be an increase in cash from the Province's side. I think the deal that was in place was the best possible deal for both sides.

Thats after decades of negotiation. Without extra cash going to Tsu Tina I dont see this deal happening, and I dont see the province offering up any extra money meaning its dead. There is no point in looking to the past on these things.

Exactly, the council of the Tsuu Tina approved the agreement, the people voted it down. I don't think money was really the issue, there was more than enough money in the deal to give each tribe member a lot of money. Also, the Tsuu Tina would have had a large chunk of prime development land, even inside of the ring road. They could have developed that, and gotten more cash out of it.

I wonder if the band would be more willing to sell a little bit of land along Glenmore and 37th Street, just so that fewer houses could be knocked down? It would require far less land then the original proposal to simply widen the ROW just enough that you could get the road in without knocking down homes.

I wonder if the Government has explored that option?

[Pinner]

Originally Posted by Handsome B. Wonderful

And nothing of value was lost.

?

Why the hate for Lakeview, I moved away a long time ago.

[Mazrim]

Why are you taking it as a personal attack? It doesn't read like he was mentioning you specifically.

[CrusaderPi]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

Why are you taking it as a personal attack? It doesn't read like he was mentioning you specifically.

Because some people think everything said relates specifically to them. It's a special brand of internet narcissism at work here.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Exactly, the council of the Tsuu Tina approved the agreement, the people voted it down. I don't think money was really the issue, there was more than enough money in the deal to give each tribe member a lot of money. Also, the Tsuu Tina would have had a large chunk of prime development land, even inside of the ring road. They could have developed that, and gotten more cash out of it.

I wonder if the band would be more willing to sell a little bit of land along Glenmore and 37th Street, just so that fewer houses could be knocked down? It would require far less land then the original proposal to simply widen the ROW just enough that you could get the road in without knocking down homes.

I wonder if the Government has explored that option?

I've mentioned both of your points many times, albeit on this site only, and nobody has replied with any indication that either of them have been considered. I personally think both ideas have some pretty significant pros, so I'm really hoping to hear whatever cons there are that keep either of them from becoming a working plan.

[shermanator]

Link in the Herald about Lakeview residents opposal to the ring road. Includes quotes similar to "where will the children play"?

http://www.calgaryherald.com/residen...229/story.html

IMO, if the options given are the ONLY options available, the 37th street option is the only way to go. It's unfortunate that houses have to be knocked down, but such is the price of progress, I guess.

[TylerSVT]

It's hard not to see the natives as money hungry #######s in this. But i just still see them as sad, they perpetuate their own stereotypes and don't do anything to better their community.

I feel sad that Natives will be the same way in 20 years as they are today.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by TylerSVT

It's hard not to see the natives as money hungry #######s in this. But i just still see them as sad, they perpetuate their own stereotypes and don't do anything to better their community.

I feel sad that Natives will be the same way in 20 years as they are today.

It has nothing to do with money for the natives. If they were after money, they would have taken the deal from the province.

They voted to leave a whole bunch of cash on the table to keep their land, and we have to respect that.

If they want to come back to the table, fine.

Without land from the Tsuu Tina, houses will be knocked down somewhere.

Calgary is a growing transportation hub, and a ring road is important to keeping that status into the future.

[ken0042]

What I don't get is why the Lakeview residents are not protesting the Tsuu Tina? They were the ones who forced the province into this position. How about something like a blockade of the casino? Or signs along 37th asking people to boycott?

If they really want "somebody to think about the children"- why just go after the easiest target? Why not go after the one party who can really make the difference here?

[mykalberta]

You cant go after Tsu Tina directly without being labeled as a racist - its the same with any racial minority group. Its not Tsu Tina's fault they have the upper hand in negotiations. Its the City of Calgary's fault for assuming that a deal would be done in the first place and relying on a 3rd party.

While its crazy, I think the end game is 22X. There are too many Nimbys/Fake Enviros affected by the 37 street option.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

It has nothing to do with money for the natives. If they were after money, they would have taken the deal from the province.

They voted to leave a whole bunch of cash on the table to keep their land, and we have to respect that.

If they want to come back to the table, fine.

Without land from the Tsuu Tina, houses will be knocked down somewhere.

Calgary is a growing transportation hub, and a ring road is important to keeping that status into the future.

You cannot be serious.