Liberals back-peddle from remarks about parents

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

And yet they're still up in the polls. Boy those damn Easterners sure are stupid.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...lDecision2006/

Don't know if stupid is right word. More like scared sheep.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by Ace

it's not the governments responsibility to raise your kid, so they should not pay the entire cost.

I know what you mean Ace, but I have to point out that the Government does have a role to play in the raising of kids....

Do they not fund schools?

Do they not set minimum standards for early childhood daycares?

Do they affect curriculums at schools?

Ultimately, it is ALWAYS the parents role and responsibility to raise kids, but the government (Federal, Provincial Municipal and School Boards) do play a role and I'd like to see the system strengthened.
________
California dispensaries

[duncan]

Stupid? Sheep? Maybe Harper just has to start hitting the right issues for the area. Instaed of strolling into Toronto, and trying to tell the people there that the Liberals tried to take the GTA for granted, speak about the party's stance on immigration. As per statscan.ca, more than 21% of Toronto's population immigrated to Canada in the past 15 years, and more than a third are first generation Canadians. Harper has come off as anti-immigrant, anti-women's rights, anti-gay, etc. He is seen as an enemy of the minority, while Martin is seen as pro-equality.
The Conservatives will get nowhere in Quebec, and Martin is successfully buying votes in the Atlantic Provinces. Harper has to enhance his image amongst the urban visible minorities, The two biggest Liberal areas in BC were Vancouver and Victoria......highest area of minorities. The Liberals dominated Toronto, Ottawa, and the Golden Horseshoe area of Ontario....the largest area of Minorities. They lost seats in the smaller cities like Cambridge, Stratford and London.

[Mike F]

I found one article looking at the Quebec system in depth.

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

Of course I will. Try getting a daycare spot in Quebec. $5 and $7 a-day daycare has been 'available' there for years. There are more families on the waiting list then in the daycares

"The Charest government has promised to add 12,000 subsidized places, bringing the total to 200,000 by March, 2006. An estimated 20,000 parents have their children on waiting lists for the coveted spots, although it is hard to know how many have signed up at more than one daycare."

200,000 spots, with (at most) 20,000 on wait lists. That is far from "more families on the waiting list then in the daycares"

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

and a lot of spots are taken up by families that could easily afford private daycare - why don't they opt for it you may ask, well two reasons - 1. my understanding is that private daycare is not available in QC (happy to be corrected on this) and 2. why pay when you are entitiled to get it for next to nothing.

"The PQ had initially planned to exclude private centres from its subsidized program but backed down in the face of protest. Instead, it barred the way to the creation of new private centres, meaning the proportion of for-profit centres has fallen to 13% from 40% in 1997. The Liberals have since lifted the barrier."

So private daycare has always been available to some extent, and will likely increase.

Yes, it appears that lots of space is taken up by those who could afford better, which is unfortunate, but then they contribute more money to the program IIRC.

From the article it appears the Quebec's system has some flaws, but (1) no daycare program will be flawless, whether public private or a mix, and (2) while Quebec's system is undoubtedly the inspiration, we still don't know how the newly proposed national program will differ in an attempt to improve on it.

[Bleeding Red]

Standing corrected, with thanks for the article.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Bleeding Red

Standing corrected, with thanks for the article.

I'm sorry, but that's way too civil.

Throw some profanity in next time -- all of the cool kids do it

[Bleeding Red]

I've sepnt the last hour and a half listening to the Dershowitz-Chomsky debate, my brain is a little fried. How''s this "those crazy **#*$$*$ Quebecers will through any misinformation at you to come out looking good!!! 8000 kids waiting on the street for daycare - is this what you want from those Libral elitists?!?!!!?"

Seriously, most of my info on QC daycare comes from tv news and friends, I always figured it was a Ken Dryden between the pipes dream and never concerned myself with it until a few days ago.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by duncan

Stupid? Sheep? Maybe Harper just has to start hitting the right issues for the area.

Clearly you don't spend enough time here. It is accepted wisdom around here that people in Ontario and the Maritimes are stupid. Well, they are stupid until such time as they vote for the Conservative party. After that I assume they'll be as smart as us although that has yet to be discussed.

[northernflame]

The ironic thing is this is exactly the sort of thing you would expect from Mr. Harper and his crew.

In fact, it was exactly this type of publicly stated and ideologically driven statements issued from the ranks of the Alliance/PC/Reform (or whatever the heck they are calling themselves this time around) that limited Harper's chances of being elected during the last campaign.

Strike one against the liberals.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

And yet they're still up in the polls. Boy those damn Easterners sure are stupid.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...lDecision2006/

Typical Canadian politics. Buy Ontario, and you purchase the keys to 24 Sussex Drive.

And northernflame is right. If a Conservative candidate had made such a comment, there would ne national outrage coupled with a 30 minute docudrama on CBC condemning the statement.

Unfortunately, this isn't strike one, becuase the only sheeple that matter dont care.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by Snakeeye

Typical Canadian politics. Buy Ontario, and you purchase the keys to 24 Sussex Drive.

And northernflame is right. If a Conservative candidate had made such a comment, there would ne national outrage coupled with a 30 minute docudrama on CBC condemning the statement.

Unfortunately, this isn't strike one, becuase the only sheeple that matter dont care.

So how many strikes do you get for saying something stupid when you're a part of a political party. Curious to see the benchmark.

[Resolute 14]

Depends on which political party you represent, and which region you are in. Double standards exist on both sides of the spectrum.

[duncan]

Can you explain how he is buying Ontario? Like Alberta, We pay more than we receive. When the Mad Cow problem hit, there was no relief for Ontario beef farmers, Ottawa flew in Alberta beef for the 'We LOve Canadian Beef' demonstration. There has been no relief for tradesmen still losing jobs in the auto industry.
As I have said, the biggest problem facing Harper in Ontario image. Over one third of the population of Toronto are first generation Canadians, and another third are 'visible minorities'. The Conservatives tanked in the GTA, Victoria and Vancouver, all having large immigrant populations. The Liberals are playing on that image with commercials implying that the Conservative Party are anti-gay, anti-french, anti-immigration, and anti-woman.

[Resolute 14]

The promises the Liberals have made are aimed at Ontario, and more specifically the GTA. As you said, Liberal slander is also geared for the "benefit" of the people in the GTA.

The current system eliminates the need for the Liberals to even bother with much of the rest of the country. Win Ontario, win the election.

As I have said, current Liberal tactics only underscore why this nation desperately needs massive electoral reform, and it also underscores why the push for it will never come from the federal level.

[Shawnski]

Originally Posted by duncan

The Liberals are playing on that image with commercials implying that the Conservative Party are anti-gay, anti-french, anti-immigration, and anti-woman.

And look how the Liberals are acting outside the country. Catch this hum-dinger...

According to certified Canadian Immigration Consultant Bhaskar Sharma, the Liberal Government has called elections and has noted the importance of the ethnic community......Sharma told Saturday Express that the Canadian Government has signed over $1 billion to the Ontario officials to ensure that ethnic people continue to support the Liberals.

This from a Trinidad and Tobago website!!

http://www.trinidadexpress.com/index...s?id=121643303

[MarchHare]

The current system eliminates the need for the Liberals to even bother with much of the rest of the country. Win Ontario, win the election.

That applies equally to all parties, and the sooner the Conservatives realize that, the sooner they'll stand a chance of defeating the Liberals.

And how is that unfair, exactly? Over a third of Canada's total population lives in Ontario. In fact, they're actually under represented in parliament. Alberta has a lower citizen per MP ratio than Ontario does.

[Patek23]

For the conservatives to make it out east the Conservatives would need a minority person at the head, until then they look too much like the big scary bigot machine to many easterners. Suprisingly enough these are the same easterners that think Don Cherry is the cats ass..................


silly east.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Mr. Ski

Flip your argument around then... how can we trust anyone to raise their own children. Trusting them to wisely spend an extra $100 on care options is the least of societies worries really. How about the really tough decisions. Why not just let the government make all the choices for us, lest we do something wrong.

To be honest, you can't trust them! There will always be good parents and bad parents. What they do with their own money is their business, so if they want to be bad parents on their own dime, so be it. But why should tax payers pay so that mommy can go to bingo, and daddy can go drink beer? I mean, I am a liberal person, and this is even too liberal for me. How conservatives can reconcile Harper's proposal with their ideology is beyond me. Tax payers have a right and responsibility to know and control how cash handouts are spent. Isn't this one of the reasons so many here don't like the Liberals? D

And if we did this with child care, how long until welfare or health care turns into the same system?


I want a cash handout to spend however I want too! Heck, I deserve more than people with kids. I'm purposely holding off having children until I can raise them without any assistance. If parents deserve $100/month, surely socially responsible people deserve a handout to spend however they want. At least with Liberal and NDP plan, you know that children are receiving the benefits, and parents aren't having fun at tax payer expense. If it costs more, that's fine with me as I see it as a better investment on children.

Harper's plan isn't childcare, it's just a payoff to relinquish government responsibility and to do exactly what they blame the Liberals of doing - buying votes.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

That applies equally to all parties, and the sooner the Conservatives realize that, the sooner they'll stand a chance of defeating the Liberals.

And how is that unfair, exactly? Over a third of Canada's total population lives in Ontario. In fact, they're actually under represented in parliament. Alberta has a lower citizen per MP ratio than Ontario does.

I think everyone understands this.

A perfect example of how a democracy can work around regional problems like we have is one to the south. With each region (state/. province) given equal power. That way no one area can run roughshod over another like the East (ie Quebec and Ontario) does to Alberta. And yes other provinces as well.

Basically we live under Ontario's and to a lesser extent Quebec's dictatorship. They choose the rulers and villify us as outsiders and crazies. The rulers abuse us to keep their "Bread and Butter" happy.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by fotze

Would you want your kid to be taken care of a couple unionized workers that are consistantly having their benefits eroded and could care less if your child stopped attending the daycare since they will get the same budget money anyway. Or would you want to have a company that is willing to give you good customer service in order to keep their business successful.

I guess it depends on how affluent of an area you live in. You know that under a private system, most daycares will locate themselves where wealthier people live and work so they can charge more.


Rich people will have their pickins' while the poor and underclassed children will be crammed into poorly funded daycares with likely underqualified workers. It certainly will lead to even less class mobility for future generations.