ATDHE.net domain seized by Homeland Security

[Azure]

Originally Posted by valo403

Yes, the seizing of a domain used to violate federal law means that the US is being run by MPAA/RIAA lawyers. What a moronic statement.

You must admit it is pretty stupid that Homeland Security is doing this and not the FBI.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by FlamesPuck12

They're obviously going to use illegal stream if that was the case.

Why? Because their cheap? Even at $10/game that is cheaper than PPV was just a year ago plus all the benefits of NHLGC and the option to watch every game in almost HD quality. And with NHLGC you don't have to watch live because of the feautures included.

Really people wanting to have the option of seeing every game for free are in la la land because it doesn't and wouldn't make sense for the NHL. If it did then the other 3 major sports wouldn't have the exact same product. It obviously has value to the league and even if every game was free it doesn't mean more people will become fans.

The NHL just like any business wants more customers, not freeloaders. Imagine the costs to the NHL if NHLGC was a free for all, I bet they couldn't spend enough to keep up with the amount of streaming. Of that the $200 I spend a year on NHLCI & NHLGC very little of that is actual profit to the NHL after all is said and done I bet. I also wouldn't be surprised to find out that even if more casual fans watched it would be more of a burden to the NHL and a plus.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by octothorp

The live sports distribution models that are out there need to change, and a site like atdhe, even if it's illegal, can help to drive that change in the same way that napster drove change in the music industry or that torrent sites continue to drive change in the movie industry. The distribution models that came out of these movements were driven by user choices: I can now go on iTunes, and for $.99, download any track I want in seconds, at high quality. They've essentially made a model that is more convenient than attempting to download the track illegally, without being prohibitively expensive.

Right now, the NHL's distribution model is expensive and inconvenient. Make it inexpensive and convenient, and people will pay.

Online streaming has already forced the NHL to offer a way to watch games online. Gamecenter.

This will continue to happen. Which is why illegal streaming is important. It forces the industry to adapt since they're too stupid to figure it out on their own.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by Ark2

What is stupid?

The whole line of thinking that the NHL should put games for free online.

I'm suggesting that they stream lives games for free on NHL.com. Not sure what the heck you are talking about.

Centre Ice / Gamecenter. You know what your brillz idea would replace?

Try following the Flames through only CBC/TSN/Versus/NBC. Maybe you'll get lucky and get to watch 20 games a year. Most people that weren't born in hockey families start out as casual fans. From there, they become hardcore fans. If you don't mind watching the Flames, how likely is it that you become a hardcore fan when you only get to watch them once every two weeks (if you are lucky)? I get that you are old and don't understand that there are consumers different from you, but come on man. Seems like you are being deliberately obtuse here.

In your scenario you've had 18 years to become a hardcore fan of the local team. But you think the NHL should target people at a time when they are usually busy studying, drinking and trying to pick up members of the opposite sex to convert them to hardcore fans? And not just that but target the narrow subset of people who already have a favourite team, move out of market, don't have any friends to share the cost of the package and are just casual fans?

Yeah, the NHL would be well served to target friendless cheapskates.

[Azure]

IMO the NHL would be better off advertising the hell out of Gamecenter and making sure its as user friendly as possible.

[JohnnyB]

Websites like that and streaming illegal feeds are basically my only way of watching NHL hockey where I live. I've looked into CI, but the service won't work in China. I would have paid, but instead I must stream illegal feeds as I can neither use legitimate streams from North America nor can I use pay services like CI. Such is life. I don't feel there is anything much immoral in watching a p2p feed in my case as the broadcasters simply don't extend their market to include me and I am not taking away from their potential profits.

Edit: sorry, meant Gamecenter, not CI. Whichever one is the online one. I keep mixing them up.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by octothorp

The live sports distribution models that are out there need to change, and a site like atdhe, even if it's illegal, can help to drive that change in the same way that napster drove change in the music industry or that torrent sites continue to drive change in the movie industry. The distribution models that came out of these movements were driven by user choices: I can now go on iTunes, and for $.99, download any track I want in seconds, at high quality. They've essentially made a model that is more convenient than attempting to download the track illegally, without being prohibitively expensive.

Right now, the NHL's distribution model is expensive and inconvenient. Make it inexpensive and convenient, and people will pay.

$0.99 is only "not prohibitively expensive" if you don't like listening to new (to you) music, discographies, or variety.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Websites like that and streaming illegal feeds are basically my only way of watching NHL hockey where I live. I've looked into CI, but the service won't work in China. I would have paid, but instead I must stream illegal feeds as I can neither use legitimate streams from North America nor can I use pay services like CI. Such is life. I don't feel there is anything much immoral in watching a p2p feed in my case as the broadcasters simply don't extend their market to include me and I am not taking away from their potential profits.

According to the NHL Gamecenter's website, it's available everywhere but Europe and the Middle East. I believe ESPN covers the areas it's not available.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by FlamesPuck12

Exactly. As a student, I'm in Ontario half the time and Calgary, the other half. And at home, I don't own an HD tv so it makes sense for me to subscribe to game center (although it's hard to justify $200 purchase as a student). Although they black out the games in Calgary but I can work around that using a VPN. Given the cost and the inconvinience, a lot of other people will just watch an illegal stream.

Oh come on. I know students who work and go to school full time. And when they find time to go out, they spend more than that on entertainment in a weekend. Unless you're in seminary I've sure you spent more than that in a weekend. I don't think spending that for a season subscription so you can stay in every second night and watch hockey is that big of a deal.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Ark2

Maybe this is the case for you, but clearly not for everyone. I can't tell you how many times there has been a hockey game that I get with my basic cable package for free, yet I choose to stream it online instead. Why? Maybe I am at the library and can't come home and "plop down on my couch". Maybe my housemates, who are avid basketball and football fans got to the television before me to watch another sport. Maybe I like to watch the game on my computer while I post on CP about it. Heck, one year I lived in a house where the other guys didn't even want to pay for basic cable. Am I supposed to foot the bill entirely while they get to watch for free? It seems like you believe that every consumer is exactly like you when that simply isn't the case.

This is a different issue though, and one that is actually addressed by the gamecenter platform. Watching games online is obviously popular, and the NHL is way ahead of the curve when it comes to providing that option to its customers.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Azure

You must admit it is pretty stupid that Homeland Security is doing this and not the FBI.

Why? Because the name doesn't make sense? Different agencies are tasked with different responsibilities, this fell to a subset of homeland security. It could have fallen to a subset of the department of agriculture, the name of the umbrella agency means nothing.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

According to the NHL Gamecenter's website, it's available everywhere but Europe and the Middle East. I believe ESPN covers the areas it's not available.

Maybe something has changed then. I looked into it at the start of the season and found that it wouldn't work. I didn't know about ESPN's service, though I'll be surprised if it does cover China. I will take a look though.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by octothorp

It's much easier to convince people to buy a lot of impulse-driven inexpensive things than one commitment-driven expensive thing, even if there's better value in the one expensive thing. There's always going to be a market for a service like Center Ice (particularly people who are fans of out-of-market teams), but there's a massive potential audience out there for whom Center Ice makes zero sense.
Early in the season, I have next to no interest in watching non Flames games, unless it's an interesting matchup and it's easily available. But at this point in the season, yeah, I'd pay a couple bucks to watch a LA/Nashville game, because it's relevant to the Flames. But there's no way I'm going to be sitting on my couch in September, thinking "hey, I'll plunk down $200 now, in case I feel like watching out-of-market games five months from now."

I think an individual game option would make sense, but it would have to be priced in a manner to not take away from center ice/gamecenter subscriptions. Maybe a tiered subscription would make sense, $200 for the season, $10 for a one off game, $50 for any 8 games etc. Reward people for buying in bulk.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

The whole line of thinking that the NHL should put games for free online.

Someone else is already doing it. Might as well do it themselves so they can get some revenue out of it.

Centre Ice / Gamecenter. You know what your brillz idea would replace?

Frankly, I'm not even convinced of this. Would you stop paying your $200 annual fee (assuming that you pay it) if the NHL offered it online for free? From the sounds of things, you guys all seem to prefer paying this fee rather than watching online for nothing, so who knows, maybe everyone can be happy.

In your scenario you've had 18 years to become a hardcore fan of the local team. But you think the NHL should target people at a time when they are usually busy studying, drinking and trying to pick up members of the opposite sex to convert them to hardcore fans? And not just that but target the narrow subset of people who already have a favourite team, move out of market, don't have any friends to share the cost of the package and are just casual fans?

Not at all. I think the NHL should make the game more accessible. I happened to give the university student as an example because I think it is one market that would respond well to this and it's something I can relate to.

Yeah, the NHL would be well served to target friendless cheapskates.

Are you saying this because I called you old? Now, now, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. I simply meant that you are (or at least appear to be) older than the university student demographic.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by valo403

I think an individual game option would make sense, but it would have to be priced in a manner to not take away from center ice/gamecenter subscriptions. Maybe a tiered subscription would make sense, $200 for the season, $10 for a one off game, $50 for any 8 games etc. Reward people for buying in bulk.

Yeah, I honestly wouldn't have a problem with that sort of model. In my mind $10 is still a bit much (I can rent an HD new release movie for $7, I think that's the highest they could price it), but it would be a good starting point. If the NHL were to set that up as a distribution model, they could then experiment with the pricing and find the sweet spot.

[FlamesPuck12]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

Oh come on. I know students who work and go to school full time. And when they find time to go out, they spend more than that on entertainment in a weekend. Unless you're in seminary I've sure you spent more than that in a weekend. I don't think spending that for a season subscription so you can stay in every second night and watch hockey is that big of a deal.

I probably pay 5 times more for school including residence than the students you know. I already work full time when I don't have school and I still need student loan to cover my education so yea $200 is a big change, which I do not spend every weekend.

The point of this thread was talking about illegal streams not whether or not an average student can afford $200 watch couple games.

My suggestion is that NHL make the game more available for more viewership which will lead to more advertising, less piracy. No matter how cheap they lower the gamecenter, people are going to pirate to watch for free so all I'm saying is that the NHL would be better off getting some money out by turning their viewership into advertisement revenue.

Also the cost of streaming is barely nothing compared to what they could obtain from advertising.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by FlamesPuck12

I probably pay 5 times more for school including residence than the students you know. I already work full time when I don't have school and I still need student loan to cover my education so yea $200 is a big change, which I do not spend every weekend.

The point of this thread was talking about illegal streams not whether or not an average student can afford $200 watch couple games.

My suggestion is that NHL make the game more available for more viewership which will lead to more advertising, less piracy. No matter how cheap they lower the gamecenter, people are going to pirate to watch for free so all I'm saying is that the NHL would be better off getting some money out by turning their viewership into advertisement revenue.

Also the cost of streaming is barely nothing compared to what they could obtain from advertising.

Are you a foreign student? Or you implying that the students I know go to a clown college compared to you?

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by Ark2

Frankly, I'm not even convinced of this. Would you stop paying your $200 annual fee (assuming that you pay it) if the NHL offered it online for free? From the sounds of things, you guys all seem to prefer paying this fee rather than watching online for nothing, so who knows, maybe everyone can be happy.

Personally I'd rather keep paying the $200/year and not have the service bogged down by freeloaders.

I think those who want it free can enjoy the awesome viewing of ADTHE, the others who find the 50 cents per day worth it can watch any game they want in HD quality, with PVR option along with the access to every game replayed for the past 4 seasons.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by FlamesPuck12

I probably pay 5 times more for school including residence than the students you know. I already work full time when I don't have school and I still need student loan to cover my education so yea $200 is a big change, which I do not spend every weekend.

The point of this thread was talking about illegal streams not whether or not an average student can afford $200 watch couple games.

My suggestion is that NHL make the game more available for more viewership which will lead to more advertising, less piracy. No matter how cheap they lower the gamecenter, people are going to pirate to watch for free so all I'm saying is that the NHL would be better off getting some money out by turning their viewership into advertisement revenue.

Also the cost of streaming is barely nothing compared to what they could obtain from advertising.

And once again you demonstrate that you don't grasp the mass negatives here. It's all 'they could add this and gain from that' without consideration of the losses. Until you take that into consideration your premise is completely flawed.

Subscription revenues? Gone
Local TV deals? Completely undermined, to the point where I could honestly see local networks declining to broadcast at all in certain markets. Why pay the NHL, or incur the costs of production, when you lose the massive benefit of having a monopoly over free broadcasts in your region? At the very least it would significantly reduce the bargaining position of the NHL.

And you think the banner ads on online streams will replace those revenue streams?

[photon]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Maybe something has changed then. I looked into it at the start of the season and found that it wouldn't work. I didn't know about ESPN's service, though I'll be surprised if it does cover China. I will take a look though.

Heh, this raises the question of "Is it morally wrong to pirate something I can't legally buy?".