Airport Tunnel Rejected Again? **UPDATE** It's built!

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by getbak

I wonder how much having the C-Train and/or a better bus service to the airport would really impact the taxi services? I know that personally, I'd never take the train to the airport. Depending on the length and purpose of my travel, I'm either going to park at the airport or I'm going to take a taxi.

If I'm traveling on business, cost isn't an issue since I'll be reimbursed; and if I'm traveling for pleasure, it's usually a long expensive trip anyway, so an extra $40 or $50 isn't going to concern me, and I don't want to schlep my luggage onto a bus and train (you can't park overnight at a C-Train lot, and you're certain to get towed if you left your car there for weeks, so you'd either need to take the bus or get a ride to the C-Train, and if you're getting a ride, get them to take you all the way).

I assume most of the people who would take transit would be people who work at the airport. I don't know if they pay for parking now, or if staff gets free parking, but that would be potenial lost revenue for the airport.

You just gave a good and rational synopsis as to why airport LRT should be way down on the priority list.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by frinkprof

You just gave a good and rational synopsis as to why airport LRT should be way down on the priority list.

But Vancouver has one!

[Bertuzzied]

Originally Posted by Ducay

But Vancouver has one!

and it smells like ass in the summer. It's not air conditioned!

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

...

I still don't know why the Airport wants concessions, they stand to gain a significant amount from the tunnel, and the city is offering to pay for it, and the Airport still wants more money? It doesn't make sense to me. I'll have to see the report, to see what that all entails.

Probably because the Airport will have to push back its construction schedule which was scheduled to start when Barlow stopped. I am just guessing though. Or could also be because the tunnel is on Airport land.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Probably because the Airport will have to push back its construction schedule which was scheduled to start when Barlow stopped. I am just guessing though. Or could also be because the tunnel is on Airport land.

Hmmm.... I wonder if I should I use my invisibility for good, or for evil?

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by Ducay

But Vancouver has one!

Vancouver also has an airport authority that was willing to foot the bill for it.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by frinkprof

Vancouver also has an airport authority that was willing to foot the bill for it.

Yeah but the feds also ponied up money for YVR way back when they were building their parallel runway, YYC has to go it alone.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Yeah but the feds also ponied up money for YVR way back when they were building their parallel runway, YYC has to go it alone.

I meant the LRT connection (Canada line in Vancouver). Not calling out the airport on this one, just saying a bit about the situation.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by frinkprof

You just gave a good and rational synopsis as to why airport LRT should be way down on the priority list.

Plus, it would be a spur from the main C-Train line, so it wouldn't be just another stop on the route.

Also, any tourist coming into town who wants to see anything, especially Banff, is likely to rent a car at the airport, so there's another group of potential transit riders who are unlikely to ride the C-Train from/to the airport.


I don't know why so many people get hung up on an Airport C-Train. Right now, Vancouver is the only airport in Canada with direct train service, and it's pretty much only there because of the Olympics. Pearson is the busiest airport in Canada and it doesn't even have a direct train service from downtown Toronto. Neither does Montreal, despite both cities being significantly larger, and having much more extensive and mature public train services than Calgary.

Airport C-Train service should be pretty low on the priority list for C-Train expansion.

The runway underpass on the other hand, should be a priority to get at least the basic shell in place before the runway is built over top of it.

[Bigtime]

I agree, I just think that cash has to be a little tight for YYC with them building the parallel runway and the new International Facilities terminal. Would have been mighty nice if the feds gave them some money for the parallel like they did in the other major centres when they built theirs. Perhaps then YYC would be more willing to cover some of these costs?

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by getbak

Plus, it would be a spur from the main C-Train line, so it wouldn't be just another stop on the route.

Also, any tourist coming into town who wants to see anything, especially Banff, is likely to rent a car at the airport, so there's another group of potential transit riders who are unlikely to ride the C-Train from/to the airport.


I don't know why so many people get hung up on an Airport C-Train. Right now, Vancouver is the only airport in Canada with direct train service, and it's pretty much only there because of the Olympics. Pearson is the busiest airport in Canada and it doesn't even have a direct train service from downtown Toronto. Neither does Montreal, despite both cities being significantly larger, and having much more extensive and mature public train services than Calgary.

Airport C-Train service should be pretty low on the priority list for C-Train expansion.

The runway underpass on the other hand, should be a priority to get at least the basic shell in place before the runway is built over top of it.

I think airport LRT will start to make more sense after the rest of the bigger residential and employment centres are served (full southeast and north central lines), when the airport grows a bit in terms of air traffic and employment after their international terminal and parallel runway projects are up and running, and following some ridership development with the new express bus routes starting up within the next couple years.

As for the tunnel, just get it done.

[hotchocolate]

My father who lived in Calgary 15 years ago says this reminds him of the ring road stalemate. Wouldn't it be funny if it happens again but this time with the tunnel? Well wouldn't be funny cause lots a businesses will be affected and increased congestion on Deerfoot.

[The Yen Man]

I just think all the naysayers against this tunnel being built because "it doesn't affect them" will eat their words once this tunnel gets scrapped, and they miss their flight because they're stuck in a 2 hour long traffic jam on Deerfoot. But then, they'll just blame the city for "poor planning".

Deerfoot Trail is already jammed beyond belief. Imagine all the traffic from people who used to use Barlow spilling onto Deerfoot during rush hour traffic. That is going to suck. That's why IMO, any roadways that will relieve Deerfoot of some of it's volume is always welcome news to me.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I just think all the naysayers against this tunnel being built because "it doesn't affect them" will eat their words once this tunnel gets scrapped, and they miss their flight because they're stuck in a 2 hour long traffic jam on Deerfoot. But then, they'll just blame the city for "poor planning".

Deerfoot Trail is already jammed beyond belief. Imagine all the traffic from people who used to use Barlow spilling onto Deerfoot during rush hour traffic. That is going to suck. That's why IMO, any roadways that will relieve Deerfoot of some of it's volume is always welcome news to me.

Exactly. I think the desperate need for the tunnel will be obvious when, in the time between Barlow closing and Metis Trail opening ( a couple of months at least), a snowfall or an accident turns Deerfoot into a parking lot, and there is no backup road that can even come close to allieviating the pressure.

Deerfoot is already a slow drive, plus it's going to have extra traffic thanks to Barlow closing, it won't take much to turn it into a near parking lot.

Lets say you are going to the Airport heading north on Deerfoot to catch a flight around afternoon rush hour. An accident shuts down Deerfoot just north of 64th Ave, and you are stuck just north of 16th Ave. Name a alternative route that you could take to the Airport that wouldn't add at least 1.5 hours to your trip. IMO, there is none. Every alternative road isn't very big, and will be nearly at capacity on a normal day.

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

Lets say you are going to the Airport heading north on Deerfoot to catch a flight around afternoon rush hour. An accident shuts down Deerfoot just north of 64th Ave, and you are stuck just north of 16th Ave. Name a alternative route that you could take to the Airport that wouldn't add at least 1.5 hours to your trip. IMO, there is none. Every alternative road isn't very big, and will be nearly at capacity on a normal day.

I'll play:

-Exit 32nd Ave westbound
-head west until 4th St NW
-head north on 4th St NW
-west on 64th Ave
-north on 14th St
-east on Country Hills Blvd
-south on Barlow
-Airport road to terminal

In rush hour I figure that would probably take about an hour or so. By no means an easy shortcut though.

[skippy]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

I'll play:

-Exit 32nd Ave westbound
-head east until 4th St NW
-head north on 4th St NW
-west on 64th Ave
-north on 14th St
-east on Country Hills Blvd
-south on Barlow
-Airport road to terminal

In rush hour I figure that would probably take about an hour or so. By no means an easy shortcut though.

You're better off staying on Deerfoot. Almost easier to swing around back onto 16th East to Stoney Trail and going north to Country Hills Blvd and the back road to the airport. Regardless, Barlow closing is just bad news for northbound travelers.

[FlameOn]

So still no hard decision on this? Wasn't it that we needed to get this finalized this month if we want to start construction on it?

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

I'll play:

-Exit 32nd Ave westbound
-head east until 4th St NW

So, doing an illegal u-turn and then driving around the planet is faster?


Seriously, I remember driving a buddy to the airport when Deerfoot was a gong show. I think there was some off-roading done to make it there in under 90 minutes.

[Bigtime]

Haha, fixed! Thanks for catching that, too early in the morning.

[Bigtime]

The Airport Underpass report is up now on the city's website for the upcoming council meeting on Monday, just scroll down to find it and read away:

http://agendaminutes.calgary.ca/sire...doctype=AGENDA