The Official 10/11 Liverpool F.C. Thread

[Mightyfire89]

What a git. So long Nando, may your new team go into the toilet for the rest of your career. Henceforth, you WILL walk alone.

Hopefully Carroll can stay out of...ahem, extracurricular trouble and mesh well with Suarez to give the Anfield faithful something that will make them quickly forget about 'the kid'.

Also, too bad they couldn't have picked up Adam.

An interesting day to be sure.

[KevanGuy]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Krack Korn

Hopefully Carroll can stay out of...ahem, extracurricular trouble

I'm sure Joey gave him a head's up on the local hot-spots.

[Mightyfire89]

Originally Posted by KevanGuy

I'm sure Joey gave him a head's up on the local hot-spots.

lol, yeah, no doubt. KG, What's your impression of Carroll? What are we Liverpool fans getting?

[Nuje]

URGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok now that that's out of the way. Ignoring all emotion, this isn't some unmitigated disaster. I agree that Carroll was on the expensive side, but that's just life now, and it will only get worse with the rules governing mandatory amounts of your countrymen. English players will be overpriced, Spanish ones will also be expensive. The discounts will come from South America and Africa. We've now got two very good strikers, both of who are younger than Torres. If they manage to both stay healthy, and simply meet expectations based on their performance up to now, I think we're in good shape.

Now, back to the emotion part. That is simply the equivalent of Torres spitting on us. Throughout the entire dark period, where Liverpool were owned by Statler and Waldorf, I was always worried about the prospect of Torres leaving, and the owners taking the money, and pocketing most/all of it. He'd go back to Spain, we might play him one day in Europe when everything turns around. His return to Anfield would be met with respect from the fans. He would be the most beloved opposition player of our generation. The blemish for his departure would be purely on Tom Hicks, and George Gillett.

Fast forward to today. There's been an air of hope around Anfield. The optimism is cautious, but we have every reason to believe, based on their track record, that NESV are going to take care of our club properly. Chelsea makes a bid for Torres. So it's "F-OFF CHELSEA!!". Even when Torres handed in his request, we all waited for his statement. We believed everything he ever said about our club, and how special it is, and how special it is to him as well. We just wanted to hear him say "it wasn't me, it was my agent, I'm not going anywhere". But instead, there was silence.

Maybe he should look to his old club, and their new young prodigy Sergio Aguero. Chelsea has come knocking at least the last 2 transfer windows. Tottenham joined the hunt too, despite Aguero having signed an extension recently (I believe it was last window). Rather than handing in a request, or having his agent negotiate with interested clubs, he signed yet another new deal, which limits the ability for him to be bought.

At the end of the day, choked. If you told me the week Hodgson got hired, that Torres would be sold to Chelsea, and I would hate Torres for it, and have 0 problem with the way the owners and manager handled the situation, I would pay big money for what you're smoking.

His armband proved he was a red Suarez, Suarez
You'll Never Walk Alone it said Suarez, Suarez
He bought it from a lad in Spain
Tall blond hair forgot his name
Luis Suarez, Liverpool's number 7

We've got 2 new strikers to fill the void. After that rant/eulogy to the Fernando Torres I thought he was, time to get back behind the club. There's football to be played.

[KevanGuy]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Krack Korn

lol, yeah, no doubt. KG, What's your impression of Carroll? What are we Liverpool fans getting?

Well he hadn't done much before last season and even last season all he was really good for was bringing down the ball and usually losing it to his first touch. He was a bit frustrating to watch as he never had much creativity.

But as he got a year older he refined his skills and is now able to control the ball after bringing it down and actually get some shots on goal. He's also proficient at scoring headers from set pieces. He is a strong player and fun to watch, though he does whine to the ref a fair bit.

I'm not sure how you all will feel about him to be honest. He has a lot to live up to with a fee like that. He does have a ton of potential but who knows if he has his head on straight enough to deal with it all (and, as you said, stay out of trouble).

Even though we made more money off him then we probably ever could have in the future it is disappointing to see him go. He is local, he's got skill, wore the 9...and with him leaving it just shows the management's lack of ambition. Hopefully Ashley will F off after he has recouped some of the money he's lost.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by Jagger

...to the Rent Boys no less. Crap if it was Barca I wouldn't be as bothered but to a plastic club like that makes the blood boil. Hey I even know that united will be with me on this. At least the Mancs, as much as I dislike them, have a proper history and run their club the way it should be run. The same cannot be said for the Russians.

Although you are an excellent contributor, I think your comments here are bang out of order. While I believe it is was fair of you to bemoan Chelsea for the way they run their club, at least at the time you wrote what I emboldened, it is extremely arrogant to criticize Torrez for choosing a team with less history and think clubs with history are more deserving of his services. He's not from Liverpool, he's a Spanish footballer looking to succeed...

Originally Posted by Jagger

Chelsea being one of the ' top clubs in the world'
Well in terms of money then yes. Otherwise, they are as plastic as they come.

Really? They may not have a massive trophy case but with the points from the silverware they have won recently they do sit high on the UEFA Club Rankings and World Club Rankings.

You guys really need to get off your high horse especially seeing as how you are riding into the Mega-Rich and Super-Stupid club. £35m for Andy Carroll? At the next club meeting, say hi to Abramovich for me!

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Addick

Although you are an excellent contributor, I think your comments here are bang out of order. While I believe it is was fair of you to bemoan Chelsea for the way they run their club, at least at the time you wrote what I emboldened, it is extremely arrogant to criticize Torrez for choosing a team with less history and think clubs with history are more deserving of his services. He's not from Liverpool, he's a Spanish footballer looking to succeed...

I think the point there was that he wasnt moving from Liverpool to Chelsea for the glory or any sort of affiliation, Chelsea is in a better position to succeed right now and more likely to win trophies immediately, I wouldnt deny that.

BUT.....it wouldnt have anything to do with more than doubling his weekly salary would it?

It just so happens that the club willing to pay him that much has more money than history.

Frankly, 'history' in terms of sports really doesnt mean much to me, I'm a strictly 'what have you done for me lately' kind of guy.

Originally Posted by Addick

Really? They may not have a massive trophy case but with the points from the silverware they have won recently they do sit high on the UEFA Club Rankings and World Club Rankings.

You guys really need to get off your high horse especially seeing as how you are riding into the Mega-Rich and Super-Stupid club. £35m for Andy Carroll? At the next club meeting, say hi to Abramovich for me!

£35M for Andy Carroll, is asininely insane. Or, at least, it was yesterday, however I've slept on it and I have come to two conclusions.

First of all, Andy Carroll is now a Liverpool striker, and as such he has my full support, regardless of his price tag. Jagger and KG have mentioned that this guy has a ton of potential and here is hoping that he realizes that potential at Liverpool. He has what it takes and I think the partnership of him and this club will be a profitable one for everyone and if anyone can do that its the King.

Secondly, the £35M price tag is and was simply an unavoidable matter of business. Liverpool are in a precarious state at the moment. I firmly believe that right now this club are at the brink, to slide would mean other World Class players in the vein of Reina, Kuyt and perhaps even Gerrard would be looking elsewhere should the hardship continue. However, to improve, even slightly, finish 7th or higher, and theres hope for the future. Further future signings can be had and improvement can be made. Part of the £35M is an investment into movement in that direction. As such, the money is spent and gone and theres nothing to be done about it but support Carroll and Suarez to carry this club in the right direction.

Its pretty clear to me that Carroll didnt want to leave Newcastle, and I can sympathize with that. But, another part of that £35M price tag is ownership of Liverpool telling Andy Carroll that they believe in him and what he can do and he now has to live up and justify that faith. Going from one club that didnt want you (ownership, etc.) to one that has expressed that they sincerely do should be considerable motivation.

What Liverpool do now is go out onto the pitch and do their best, improve and know that with moves like this, improvement in play from the squad means that NESV will pay to bring in some cavalry.

Get in boys.

[Jagger]

Originally Posted by Addick

Although you are an excellent contributor, I think your comments here are bang out of order. While I believe it is was fair of you to bemoan Chelsea for the way they run their club, at least at the time you wrote what I emboldened, it is extremely arrogant to criticize Torrez for choosing a team with less history and think clubs with history are more deserving of his services. He's not from Liverpool, he's a Spanish footballer looking to succeed...




Really? They may not have a massive trophy case but with the points from the silverware they have won recently they do sit high on the UEFA Club Rankings and World Club Rankings.

You guys really need to get off your high horse especially seeing as how you are riding into the Mega-Rich and Super-Stupid club. £35m for Andy Carroll? At the next club meeting, say hi to Abramovich for me!

Fair points.

I needed to take that deep breath yesterday too. There was simply too much going on for the brain to handle.

However after saying that I'm not a fan of Chelsea or their ways whatsoever. I don't like the way they operate since the Russian came around. That's just how it is and that will not likely change.

It's funny I dislike Man U the most of any team out there but I guess you could say that its for the right reasons. (I.E. rivalry, location, history etc.) I can respect that team for all they have achieved much as I don't like to admit it. The same cannot be said for Chelsea. It's just not the same, riding a high horse be damned.

Torres uttered assurances to the Liverpool faithful three weeks ago of his love and commitment to the cause then we all saw what happened mere days from the transfer deadline. It was extremely poor form and timing. The lad has gone down immensely in my estimation. He is now simply a mercenary plain and simple. The Carroll vast and ridiculous overpayment was almost certainly due to Torres putting the team over a barrel. They simply turned the money around to buy a replacement which was actually good to see regardless of the amount.

I've moved on now. I like the players Kenny brought in. I have a feeling that they will show much more drive in the next little while than Mr. Torres displayed in his last year and a half here. Torres is the past and NO player is bigger than LFC. This may come across as arrogance or whatever but it's not. My love for Liverpool FC knows no bounds. It's been a part of my life for almost 40 years now. I've seen stars come and go and you know what the team always moves on. Torres is a mere footnote now.

Sorry for offending your sense of what's right yesterday, Addick, but you have to realise that loyalty to my team runs very deep and emotions were pretty high too.

[Nuje]

Originally Posted by Jagger

Fair points.
*snip due to long posts already on page

Agreed. I had emotions running high. I'm not going to say I'm a life-long fan. I simply grew up in a European family, so I've always had an affection for the sport. Liverpool was the team I always wanted to win as a kid, and I don't even know why. When I made a decision to watch again, I simply stuck with the team I've always liked.

I then found the supporters club due to an argument about the Calgary Corporate Challenge soccer team that went something along the lines of:
"I did not make the team. Well good luck all." -Angry guy #1
"Seems they made the same team from last year" - Angry guy #2
"Let's calm down here, you don't see Rooney Ronaldo or Beckham on the team" - Guy trying to settle angry guys down
"Of course not. Who'd want any Man U players anyways? (+ website URL)" - One of the (longest serving) members

The more I watch, and every time I read even more about the club's history, I love it even more. When you feel that way about the club, that sort of emotional connection to it, and your star player, one of the top strikers in the world, makes you believe that he feels the same connection, you truly feel lucky. Then you find out it's all BS. That's sports. The shield hasn't changed. Looking forward to see what our new #9 can do...he's only 22, the sky could very well be the limit.

[Montana Moe]

Via Twitter:

@evertonal: Andy Carroll will never walk alone... His probation officer is always 2 steps behind him

[Jagger]

The more I think about it the more I like the thought of the pending partnership of Carrol and Suarez.

Kenny has gone with the tried and trusted Liverpool striking duo which is simply awesome. This duo reminds me quite a bit of a mix of Toshack/Keegan and Rush/Dalglish, or Aldridge/Beardsley. Toshack was fantastic in the air and was a bull of a man. Carroll has similar traits but has more ground skill than the big man like an Ian Rush/John Aldridge. Suarez is potentially a mix of Keegan, Dalglish, and Beardsley.

The potential that these two have is massive. They could very well be the best striking partnership since those Liverpool glory days.

I'm excited to see how it all shapes up.

[Locke]

Suarez is said to make his Anfield debut today against Stoke.

Also, it looks as though Charlie Adam has basically told Holloway that hes gone in the Summer and his most likely destination is Liverpool.

[Jagger]

Found this on another site and thought it fitting given Carroll's overinflated price. There's a bit of reading here but thought Locke, in particular, would have his mind put at ease by reading this:

"here’s a quote from ‘Mind Games: How the Boston Red Sox Got Smart, Won a World Series, and created a New Blue Print for Winning.’
Quote:
“If there was a mission statement for the Red Sox of the future, it was this: be the Yankees, but smarter… Fill holes above market prices when necessary.”

we had a big hole to fill, and, damn the expense, we filled it, immediately. Balls all to do with going against his principles, on the contrary, John Henry's stuck to them resolutely."

Spot on comments given the situation our favourite Spaniard put us in.

Carroll apparently was our next major target anyway, for a summer signing, but this had to be moved forward given the circumstances.
This snippet from another piece was good too:

"Andy Carroll makes sense for Liverpool on a few of levels. One: he’s young. In five years he’ll be in his prime (or perhaps past his prime, but near enough that someone will still want him) and can then be sold on for good money again. If transfer fees exceed inflation (as surely they will, especially if there’s an economic recovery) then there’s a fair chance that a good amount of that £35million can be recouped. Especially because two: he should age well. He hasn’t played a lot of games for his age, and his skillset is one that ought to hold up. Three: he’s unique. Seriously, Carroll has an ability that not many others have. He’s phenomenal in the air, has a decent touch, and appears to have the instincts to make the most of his skills. He’s what Peter Crouch should have been. Four: (ack) he’ll enhance the brand. He’s John Charles, John Toshack, a most English of English centre-forwards (and yes, I’ve just picked two Welsh players…). Liverpool fans are nothing if not backward looking: they’ll love their all action number 9. He’ll make the club a fortune in shirt sales around the world.

So there are reasons to spend big on Carroll. No, he’s not undervalued at all; but he’s not without value, and as a signing (especially given the context of receiving so much for Torres) he makes sense. Liverpool’s owners will have done the analysis and will know that success costs money. The more you spend the better you get. From there it will have been a question of working out how to spend that money. You can buy seven five million players for £35 million, but then you end up no better off; you can buy three ten million players and maybe that does make a difference; but if you think you have found premium talent, talent that is not available from any other source, you have to pay up. With Carroll and Suarez Liverpool have paid up; they’ll know what they’re doing here, and just as Chelsea and City had to spend away to kick start their ascendency, so too are John Henry’s team. He needs defenders now and a few more £10 million types dotted around the pitch to make this really pay off, but the recovery is on. It’s not Moneyball in the “undervalued player” sense, but it’s Moneyball in the “we know what we’re doing” sense. "

and, deep breath, finally this:

"Andy Carroll is the eighth most expensive player in history. Which is quite something for a 22-year-old with only 41 top-flight games to his name. But those who say the £35m Liverpool paid is too much money are not considering the matter in the round. Liverpool have spent £58m on Carroll and Luis Suárez. But they pulled in £56m for Ryan Babel, below, and Fernando Torres. The net transfer outlay is £2m.

Then there are the wages: Suárez and Carroll's combined wages ring the till at about £7m a year. But Torres alone earned £6.76m a year, with Babel earning another £2.5m. The wage savings will have covered the net transfer outlay before next January's transfer window opens. A player is worth what someone will pay, and Liverpool have found their own value."

These deals seem better all the time to me the more I read about them (and I already liked them)

[Jagger]

I must be bored today but I was thinking about the media and other fans comments about how Liverpool have gone overboard on spending but they are not really considering net spends here.

If you take that into account, as you should, then this is how it looks:

Net Spends January 2011 transfer window:

Liverpool 1.8m net
Chelsea 71m net
Man City 27m net
Man Utd 3.5m net
Spurs 4.5m net
Villa approx 31m net

That, to me, looks like good business actually.

Well in Kenny and NESV....

That's it for me. Off to watch the match.

[d_phaneuf]

I think they overpaid for both, but Chelsea overpaid for a walking injury who may not care about football anymore

fact is Liverpool are a much better side now than last week, and as you show they barely spent any new money to do so

[Locke]

Great. Stoke City playing a 'Parked Bus' game from the first minute on. I hate it when teams do that.

Liverpool with 75% possession, but have to get it through all 11 men to get to the goal and even then Begovic has made 3 great saves.

Kuyt playing all by himself up front, and actually doing a pretty good job of it. Get Suarez on there to help him!

I am actually really looking forward to seeing Andy Carroll in red and terrorizing defences. A little disappointing that he likely wont be fit for Sunday.

[Locke]

Meireles! Nice.

[Locke]

Suarez just got subbed on.

[Locke]

Dammit Joe Edwards, move your goddamn car!

[Locke]

Suarez!!! Haha! It wasnt pretty, but it goes in!