Fitness or Gym Experts: WTF Should I do?

[SoulOfTheFlame]

Hey guys,

I've got myself a bit of a situation on my hands, any advice would be appreciated.

A little background: I destroyed my knee playing Hockey when I was a teenager, I had an arthroscopic surgery done at the time to allow the knee to heal, it was fine for about 12 years after that. I gained a bit of weight during my mid-twenties due to weekend binge drinking and overall partying. Quite a bit of weight actually...

Last year I decided to lose all the weight and embarked on a heavy gym schedule (5 days a week, 3 cardio 2 strength). I lost about 40lbs in 6 months. Unfortunately my knee gave way again and after another arthroscopic surgery I find myself well and truly F'd. I can no longer walk without pain, which pretty much rules out any leg-exercises at the gym (even swimming..).

Anyhow due to the months of near immobility I did gain some of the weight back, and now here I am needing to lose around 50 lbs at least which should relieve some of the pain on my knee.

What I'm doing now: I've decided to do a boxing-heavy (mostly punching, not much footwork) gym routine along with increased weight training. I hired a personal trainer who's got me on protein powder after each workout (Will protein powder reduce my ability to drop LBS?). In my diet I eat a healthy breakfast and lunch with little snaking and a reasonably healthy dinner. I've cut out booze during the week.

What do you guys think? Is this a good plan? Any advice would be much appreciated.

[browna]

Before any of that, get on the list for reconstructive surgery. You'll likely want to lose a little weight/get in better shape in advance of the surgery and rehab.

Blown my knee out 12 years ago too, nothing but arthroscopic, and since when its given out is only when attempting high impact sports with my expensive brace not doing its job. But day to day no pain, and can run 25-30+kms without issue.

If its giving you pain day to day that you can't even swim, losing weight to relieve pressure is a stop gap, but nowhere near even a medium term solution.

At some point soon, while still youngish, I'm getting the reconstructive done to hopefully lessen the impact/duration/intensity of the arthritis scheduled to set in in 20-25 years.

[tendulkar23]

You should definitely talk to your doctor about it and make sure there weren't any surgical complications.

As for the weight, I recommend having an ice bath from the waist down for a half hour each day. The cold will bring down the swelling in the knee and it will get your body to burn more fat.

[nickerjones]

I am no expert nor am I as physically fit as I want to be. I too have gained weight due to back problems here in the last year. However, losing weight is not rocket science... as stated in another thread.. find maintenance calories, eat 500 calories less than that to lose 1-2 lbs a week. If your not losing 1-2lbs a week drop 100 calories a day for a couple of weeks ... if it still isnt working drop another 100 calories or 2 a day for a couple weeks. If it still isnt working , you either got your maintenance calories wrong or your not counting all the calories your taking in.

While losing weight is not rocket science it does take discipline. Thats where I have the problems. I see my wife eating something sweet and then I want something sweet. That being said ... you can eat whatever you want as long as you eat only your calories goal. For example while I dont condone eating Mcdonalds cheese burgers on a 2000 cal diet, I think they are 450 calories per burger. You could eat 4 of them a day and have only consumer 1800 calories.

On protein , I am eating 1g of protein per Lb of lean body weight. I also am trying to lift fairly heavy 3 times a week. Also another note is , Cardio is not required to lose weight . You just burn more calories when you cardio in conjunction with diet and weight lifting so you would lose weight faster.

[Trojan97]

Don't worry about losing weight, worry more about your body composition (ie get your body fat tested rather then worrying about a pound here or there. You obviously won't notice a huge drop in weight as your body sheds fat and packs on muscle. The nice thing about weight training is that the more muscle you have the more fat you will burn which is ultimately what you're looking for.

[flylock shox]

What's the weight training for? If it's not for rehab it could be counterproductive in terms of your weight loss efforts.

You may want to consider investing in an arm bike if your legs aren't able to handle a cardiovascular load.

But it sounds like you'll need more than just a good gym routine if you're going to get fighting fit again.

[SoulOfTheFlame]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

What's the weight training for? If it's not for rehab it could be counterproductive in terms of your weight loss efforts.

.

That's kinda what I'm asking myself. Frankly I enjoy it... I like increasing how much I can lift and my GF certainly doesn't mind the increased muscle mass... That said, if I'm heavy with muscle it's just counter-productive towards making it easier on my knee.

[SoulOfTheFlame]

Originally Posted by browna

Before any of that, get on the list for reconstructive surgery. You'll likely want to lose a little weight/get in better shape in advance of the surgery and rehab.

Sadly my surgical options have pretty much run their course. I've got about 50% of the cartilage left in the back of my knee, which is giving me my problems. If I let that wear away to 0% walking could become impossible... (scary huh?). Therefore it's important to lose weight in order to prevent this tissue loss.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

I'd dump the personal trainer. Most of them are nothing more than salesmen and a lot of the time they don't know how to properly do exercises. You can learn more than them by a couple of hours of surfing the web.

I'm surprised you can't swim because of your knee. But could you use the rowing machine? Those can give you a really good workout and could replace your weight training.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

I'd dump the personal trainer. Most of them are nothing more than salesmen and a lot of the time they don't know how to properly do exercises. You can learn more than them by a couple of hours of surfing the web.

I'm surprised you can't swim because of your knee. But could you use the rowing machine? Those can give you a really good workout and could replace your weight training.

Awful advice. The personal trainer will be able to set something up according to your individual needs and if they are decent they should have quite a bit of info regarding nutrition. The amount of crap that is out there regarding exercise and nutrition is outstanding and if you are experiencing knee pain, that is something merely surfing a website won't be able to exactly quantify. Find a personal trainer with a Bachelor of Physical Education and don't just get the one at world health or whatever gym you go to. Ask to see the personal trainers qualifications and ask them questions before you sign anything.

Also rowing uses way more of the knees than does swimming - just an example as to how you shouldn't rely on the internet for your informational needs btw.

[GreenLantern]

Few tips..

Work out in the morning if you can. Make sure you are eating breakfeast, rev up that metabolism. If you can handle it, use the eliptical, better than running on your knee and cardio is essential.. Lift heavy as you can, comfortably. Weight lifting is a huge fat burner. It will take a while to see it turn into muscle, so I wouldn't worry about the gain in weight.

Cut calories, of course. 6 small meals a day. Do not snack at night, this is so important. Late night snacking is terrible for you and will counter act most of your daily gains, even if you think it is 100% healthy, there is still something in there that is going to hurt you at 10 P.M.

Protein powder is there to help your muscles rebuild after the work out, which helps to burn fat. So don't worry about it jacking you all up.. that won't happen unless you are packing down 200+ grams of protein a day. It also most likely contains glutamine, which helps ease the pain of muscle soreness and gets/keeps you in the gym sooner/longer.

[calgaryrocks]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

Few tips..

Work out in the morning if you can. Make sure you are eating breakfeast, rev up that metabolism. If you can handle it, use the eliptical, better than running on your knee and cardio is essential.. Lift heavy as you can, comfortably. Weight lifting is a huge fat burner. It will take a while to see it turn into muscle, so I wouldn't worry about the gain in weight.

Cut calories, of course. 6 small meals a day. Do not snack at night, this is so important. Late night snacking is terrible for you and will counter act most of your daily gains, even if you think it is 100% healthy, there is still something in there that is going to hurt you at 10 P.M.

Protein powder is there to help your muscles rebuild after the work out, which helps to burn fat. So don't worry about it jacking you all up.. that won't happen unless you are packing down 200+ grams of protein a day. It also most likely contains glutamine, which helps ease the pain of muscle soreness and gets/keeps you in the gym sooner/longer.

quick question, I always see people post this and yep it makes sense, don't do what I used to do, eating a big bowl of ice cream a half hour before bed. but how do you define late night snacking? I try and go to bed around 10, so does that mean not eating anything after 8?9?7? ( i know its not an exact science but maybe there are rules of thumb?)

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by calgaryrocks

quick question, I always see people post this and yep it makes sense, don't do what I used to do, eating a big bowl of ice cream a half hour before bed. but how do you define late night snacking? I try and go to bed around 10, so does that mean not eating anything after 8?9?7? ( i know its not an exact science but maybe there are rules of thumb?)

I am far from a professional so a quick google search might do you more good than my response, not that I mind just saying check my facts, but my understanding is it has to do with insulin levels. The later in the day, the less sensitive our insulin levels are, which means carbs are more easily converted into fat. So when you are in bed watching TV eating that bowl of cereal, your body is basically just in a resting state, and is going into hibernate mode converting carbs into fat at an accelerated pace as compared to say at 10 AM when your metabolism is all revved up.

I try to avoid snacking at least a hour before I go to bed. So if I am in my bed reading at 10, my last snack was at 9, and even then it was probably a smaller cup of yogurt or an orange or a chicken breast, or a scoop of whey protein. Yogurt and granola is one of my favourite night time snacks for sure.

I am human though, obviously I do not stick to this every night, and you don't have to. You have to cheat to keep your mind sane, even the most extreme body builders cheat once a week.

If you find you like to snack right before bed I suggest doing a slow digesting protein, a casein protein, like Cottage Cheese or Milk, give your body a little time to start the digestion before you fall asleep.


It is a sticky subject and you are going to hear a different opinion from everyone, I think the general rule of thumb for weight loss is 2-3 hours before bed.. I have never been on that side of the spectrum though so my opinion on that is subject at best.. perhaps someone else would care to weigh in with their opinion.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Awful advice. The personal trainer will be able to set something up according to your individual needs and if they are decent they should have quite a bit of info regarding nutrition.

I've underlined the key point. Most aren't decent which is what I qualified my previous post with. I've seen countless examples of trainers getting their clients to do exercises improperly including the head trainer at my gym advocating a smith machine for squats. Just last week I saw a woman get taken out in an ambulance by paramedics while working out with a personal trainer.

Also rowing uses way more of the knees than does swimming - just an example as to how you shouldn't rely on the internet for your informational needs btw.

Did I advocate he use a rowing machine? No, I didn't. I merely suggested it as an option if his knee was capable of doing that. Obviously he would ask a medical professional if he would be capable of that movement.

[username]

This actually happened to me a couple of years ago (minus the weight gain thing). I blew my knee out playing hockey and was hardly able to walk for about 3 months. I just changed my gym routine to be all upper body weights, mostly machines. I lifted really light with a very high number of reps per set and I stayed in great shape.

While it's obviously not ideal, it worked for me. You just want to avoid lifting too heavy especially when you're not able to work out your legs. Afterall you don't want to be one of those stupid juice monkeys at the gym who can't wear shorts since they have a massive upper body being supported by two toothpicks for legs from never doing anything other than chest and arms.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by SoulOfTheFlame

That's kinda what I'm asking myself. Frankly I enjoy it... I like increasing how much I can lift and my GF certainly doesn't mind the increased muscle mass... That said, if I'm heavy with muscle it's just counter-productive towards making it easier on my knee.

I know where you're coming from - it's very tough to lose muscle when you've put in the effort to build it (and your lady likes it too). But ask yourself "what do I want my body to be able to do?"

If you're not a labourer and you don't see yourself getting in bar fights any time soon, why do you need an extra 15 pounds of upper body muscle mass, especially when it's increasing the load on your knee?

Weight training can be addictive, and if you want to keep it as part of your routine then do so, but consider dropping your weight levels and increasing your reps. Odds are you already have all the muscle you need anyway, and what you really want to do is get rid of the stuff that's covering it up. Usually your leg muscles would be key, but in your case upper body cardio and diet sound like the way to go.

As for protein shakes, they can be useful as filler if you're counting calories - essentially replacing or supplementing light meals, but if you're diet already includes sufficient lean meat it's doubtful you need more protein.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

[Tron_fdc]

Are you sure you've exhausted all your surgical options? In my experience, getting scoped twice is usually a prelude to reconstructive surgery....? My uncle also went the full knee replacement, and although he can't really run, he still gets around and can handle biking/circuit training 3 days a week. That was an extreme case, probably as bad as they get.

I'd physio the hell out of it, and don't give up on finding someone that can get it back to the point where you can at least jog. I've known plenty of people that have had major, MAJOR knee problems, and have managed to get through them to the point that they can still remain active.

Where are you? Are you in Oz? If you get back to Calgary try Mark Heard at Mineral Springs in Banff. I know probably a half dozen people that have gone to him (2 of my uncles, my dad, current g/f, past rugby players) and they've all got nothing but excellent things to say about him.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

I've underlined the key point. Most aren't decent which is what I qualified my previous post with. I've seen countless examples of trainers getting their clients to do exercises improperly including the head trainer at my gym advocating a smith machine for squats. Just last week I saw a woman get taken out in an ambulance by paramedics while working out with a personal trainer.

Did I advocate he use a rowing machine? No, I didn't. I merely suggested it as an option if his knee was capable of doing that. Obviously he would ask a medical professional if he would be capable of that movement.

But that is exactly the problem, there are a lot of people who will take advice from someone on the internet who has no idea about the limitations of that person has on their bodies. As I think I put in my post, ask for the personal trainers credentials, make sure that there is a Bachelors of Physical Education or a Bachelors of Kinesiology because there are a lot of absolute crap personal trainers out there who are personal trainers only because they are jacked beyond belief.

That being said if you can get a good personal trainer who is aware of body mechanics and the different exercises that you can do they are worth the price in my opinion at least. Once you get comfortable you don't need a personal trainer as much however it is always good to continually change up your workout, keep it fresh and keep your body guessing.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

But that is exactly the problem, there are a lot of people who will take advice from someone on the internet who has no idea about the limitations of that person has on their bodies. As I think I put in my post, ask for the personal trainers credentials, make sure that there is a Bachelors of Physical Education or a Bachelors of Kinesiology because there are a lot of absolute crap personal trainers out there who are personal trainers only because they are jacked beyond belief.

Except he's really limited in what he can do when it comes to weight training. He'll be doing basic exercises that can be taught and learned in one session.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

Awful advice. The personal trainer will be able to set something up according to your individual needs and if they are decent they should have quite a bit of info regarding nutrition. The amount of crap that is out there regarding exercise and nutrition is outstanding and if you are experiencing knee pain, that is something merely surfing a website won't be able to exactly quantify. Find a personal trainer with a Bachelor of Physical Education and don't just get the one at world health or whatever gym you go to. Ask to see the personal trainers qualifications and ask them questions before you sign anything.

Also rowing uses way more of the knees than does swimming - just an example as to how you shouldn't rely on the internet for your informational needs btw.

Agreed. To add to this the most important thing would be to get a properly qualified trainer. Many trainers are nothing more than salesman. Some gyms hire entirely based on charisma/looks.

I would shop around until you find an extremely competent and qualified trainer. There are a few gyms that specialize in sports training and injuries. They tend to have more qualified trainers in comparison to your average franchise/chain gym.

As for diet, when it comes to weight loss, unless you are trying to get absolutely cut to the point your veins pop out of your six pack, diet is a lot simpler than people make it out to be. Just eat less calories than you consume and get enough protein. A lot of the stuff around eating certain types of food, or eating at certain times of the day is just to make the process of calorie cutting easier. It's more psychological often, but if it works for you go for it. The secret is consistency.