Shaw Internet - Magical New Speeds and Lots-o-bandwidth, fickle geeks appeased

[Graysdir]

Hi,

I'm new here - Just thought I'd bring up a couple of key points:

The main petition is available at http://openmedia.ca/meter
It now has 40,000 signatures, but still needs more support. Please sign it, and forward to your friends, family, and co-workers.

According to the CEO of Teksavvy, it only costs 1-3 cents for an ISP to deliver data to a customer. Shaw is charging $2 per gb. I recognize there are other costs involved, but $2 per GB?!

Once the infrastructure is in place, it costs an ISP very little to send you data. We as Canadians paid for this infrastructure, and now they are charging us exorbitant fees to use it.

You should also know that just as Netflix arrived in Canada, Shaw began charging overage fees, and simultaneously (and quietly!) reduced ALL caps by approximately 33% without telling customers. If you are a Shaw customer, your caps were reduced. But they are willing to sell you back the usage they took away - for $2 per GB.

It is a conflict of interest to allow a TV broadcaster to also be an ISP. If Shaw TV is having issues competing with Netflix, then Shaw Internet simply implements VERY low usage caps, coupled with VERY high overage fees, and makes it cost prohibitive to access Netflix.

Our ISP should not be able to prevent our access to their own competitors.

We are using the internet for more and more each day:

* Work
* Telephone (Skype, Facetime, Magic Jack)
* Movies / TV Shows
* School / Research
* Web Surfing
* Purchasing & playing video games
* Web radio
* Online backups

Shaw Phone competes with Skype/Facetime/MagicJack. By implementing UBB, they prevent us from switching to their competition.

Shaw VOD, and Shaw Cable both compete with Netflix/Hulu/Web-TV. If you pay $8 per month for an Unlimited Netflix package, and you are already at your usage cap for the month, one HD Netflix movie is 4GB, so you pay Shaw an additional $8 PER MOVIE!

Shaw wants total and complete control over what you use the internet for; to ensure you use THEIR products and services, instead of those of their competitors. That is what UBB is all about.

Canada is the only country in the world moving towards UBB. All others have already moved towards unlimited usage, or are in the process of doing so - in order to promote technology.

Innovative services like Apple TV, Google TV, Netflix, Hulu, and iTunes will suffer; and if they are available in Canada, they won't be for long. If they were considering opening up business in Canada (ie: Hulu) they will reconsider now.

UBB will bring in hundreds of millions of dollars of extra revenue. Shaw claims this implementation of UBB is not financially motivated. This is, of course, ridiculous. After they reduced the caps even on the low-end packages, EVERYONE will be paying for every web page they read, and email they view.

In any event, hopefully my post will have been of interest to you. Please allow me to provide you with a few links to information that you may find useful:

This is a thread that explains how UBB affects the average user:
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r253...-Open-Internet

This is the mega-complaint thread regarding UBB/Shaw:
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r249...xtra-bandwidth

Thanks for listening, and allowing me to join your community.

[Old Yeller]

Graysdir, good post and all with a lot of good reading material... but really, has an internet petition ever worked?

[fundmark19]

I once got obama voted into office from an internet petition

[Graysdir]

Originally Posted by Old Yeller

good post and all with a lot of good reading material... but really, has an internet petition ever worked?

Hi Old Yeller,

I believe that a well-written petition, with 40,000 signatures (and growing at a rate of 1,000 per day) will certainly help to spread the word. And at this point, "spreading the word" is what we need to do. The ISPs are doing their best to keep this quiet, until it's fully in-place and operational.

When Shaw reduced our caps by 30% last month, they didn't announce it.

Shaw spreads mistruths, telling people: "If your neighbor is a heavy Netflix user, do YOU want to pay for his high usage if all you do is read emails?" This appeals to their frugal side, and then people repeat that misinformation as if it were fact. The truth is, you do NOT pay for your neighbors heavy usage of the internet. You will NOT save money with UBB. They lowered the caps on all of their plans, so it affects even the low-usage customers. "Shaw High Speed" was reduced from 75GB/mo to 60GB/mo.

In fact, with a flat rate of $50.00/mo, you could download a terabyte of data per month, and the ISP would still make a profit. The problem is, the ISPs do not want to re-invest that profit into their infrastructure. They even called UBB "a new source of revenue", during their latest shareholder meeting.

My apologies if I'm ranting a bit; but our internet service will go from $50/mo to $100/mo, so I'll have to pay Shaw an extra $600 this year, and I'll have LESS service than I did in 2010! This will create a tiered internet, where only the privileged will be able to use services like web-TV, Netflix, etc.

Most people don't realize, that if they used their connection at full speed for approximately one full day, they would already be OVER their cap, and now paying $2 per GB for overages. Shaw claims their caps are "generous" - Perhaps for the year 2003, these caps would be "generous". Selling an internet connection based on speed is pointless if you reach your caps in a matter of a few hours.

The point I'm trying to make, is that misinformation, and slowing the rate at which customers find out about UBB, are all tools being used by our ISPs. They want to take control of the internet, and ensure that we do not use their competitors, ie: Netflix/Hulu.

The best way to accomplish this is to keep it quiet. A petition with 40,000 signatures, growing daily, is poison to Shaw, because it spreads the word. And that may be more important than the petition itself.

Thanks for the reply!

[Graysdir]

I hope you folks don't mind a bit more info!

Here's a great video that was just posted today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3n466POrIE

How UBB will affect you:
http://www.techvibes.com/blog/how-us...you-2011-01-24

Loads of new info is hitting the web daily, as more people find out about UBB. For all the latest news, you can always visit:
http://www.facebook.com/openmedia.ca

Thanks for reading!

[algernon]

OK. So a company like Teksavvy offers a 200 GB plan for $32/month. They lease their lines from Telus, I think. Will that be a viable way to avoid overages, or will they follow suit eventually?

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by algernon

OK. So a company like Teksavvy offers a 200 GB plan for $32/month. They lease their lines from Telus, I think. Will that be a viable way to avoid overages, or will they follow suit eventually?

I believe that Teksavvy leases from both Telus and Shaw as they have both DSL and cable plans available. Whether or not they impose a new, lower cap would depend a lot on what their agreement is with Telus/Shaw. Their main point of difference is, at the moment, the 200 GB cap, and if the CRTC lets Shaw neuter Teksavvy, then competition has essentially failed. I would imagine that they'd rather have a higher cap if they are allowed to continue doing so.

[Graysdir]

Hi Algernon,

If I understand the situation correctly, Teksavvy leases the lines from Bell, and since the CRTC granted permission for Bell to charge UBB to independent ISPs, that means Teksavvy will have to pay UBB fees as well. Therefore, my guess, is that they will have no choice but to pass these costs onto their customers.

The CEO of Teksavvy has gone on record and stated that it costs 1-3 pennies per GB, and is obviously as frustrated with UBB as we all are. The way that an ISP like Teksavvy differentiates itself from Rogers/Shaw, is by offering unlimited usage, which will no longer be viable, thanks to this recent decision by the CRTC.

Less competition is better for Shaw/Rogers/Bell. If those indie ISPs go out of business, then Shaw will celebrate, and Canadians will pay more than ever for internet access.

If anything, I'd suggest switching to an Indie ISP just to help support them, and avoid supporting the ISPs that asked for UBB in the first place.

[Tinordi]

Great posts Graysdir. I hope this whole issue bites these anti-competitive cartels in the arse but opening up the book and public awareness on internet policy and regulation. What we need is a real regulator who sets internet rates based on a regular rate of return.

[burnin_vernon]

Very informative. I've posted the petition on my facebook in hopes of more recognition. I have no problem canceling all my shaw services because of this, but who is the lesser evil? I'm going to search for the smaller ISP's tomorrow. Offhand, I don't know who they are in BC but I imagine I'll find something.

[Draug]

Is Teksavvy available in Bearspaw, just outside Calgary? Is Teksavvy available anywhere that Telus DSL is available?

I currently use Telus, but its way too expensive for the speeds available here.

[Graysdir]

Hi Folks,

The best place to find out which ISPs are available in your area, and which do (or do not) support this UBB nonsense, is on the DSL Reports forums. They have lists of available ISPs, plus ratings, reviews, and plenty of complaints about UBB.

[Graysdir]

Here's another article:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1881250/

Plus, the CRTC apparently made their final decision today regarding UBB. I haven't read it yet, but there is more info available at http://www.facebook.com/openmedia.ca

[HOOT]

I could be reading it wrong but it looks like CRTC is allowing this UBB charges to happen but they must give a 15% discount (off retail) to other ISP providers so they make a small piece of the pie too. The CRTC hates Canada more than Bettman.

[Graysdir]

Looks like the ISPs won, and Canadians lost.

Giving 15% off to other ISPs who lease their lines is not going to help anyone. Shaw charges $2 per GB, when it costs them 1-3 CENTS per GB. Giving 15% off to an indie ISP is a disgrace.

What fun! Every web page you read, every email you send... will all cost money now. A metered internet. I can't express how disappointed I am in the CRTC.

[HOOT]

What does the average xbox/ps3 online game use for traffic every hour? Let's say a game like Call of Duty or Halo?

[TheyCallMeBruce]

Originally Posted by HOOT

What does the average xbox/ps3 online game use for traffic every hour? Let's say a game like Call of Duty or Halo?

I've heard you're looking at arond 40-60mb an hour. So if you play CoD a lot (say 4 to 5 hours). That's 300mb a day.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by TheyCallMeBruce

I've heard you're looking at arond 40-60mb an hour. So if you play CoD a lot (say 4 to 5 hours). That's 300mb a day.

I don't personally play but I know a ton of friends that do and that isn't so bad. Even if you played 5hrs/day @ 50mb/hr for 30 days/month that is only 7.5GB...right?

That would still leave someone over 50GB a month for downloading and other internet services. It just seems like the 60GB or 100GB are the most used internet packages by Shaw customers and they seem to be pretty huge chucks on data.

[TheyCallMeBruce]

Originally Posted by HOOT

I don't personally play but I know a ton of friends that do and that isn't so bad. Even if you played 5hrs/day @ 50mb/hr for 30 days/month that is only 7.5GB...right?

That would still leave someone over 50GB a month for downloading and other internet services. It just seems like the 60GB or 100GB are the most used internet packages by Shaw customers and they seem to be pretty huge chucks on data.

From my understanding that is just the base. So if you host a game (which involve stream of game info/data..maps all that jazz), or do voice (roger wilco and that type of stuff), it can go up very quickly. And if you have a house with ppl sharing the connection you can exceed that limit very quickly. However, if you're the only one using the internet, I agree it's not that much.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by TheyCallMeBruce

From my understanding that is just the base. So if you host a game (which involve stream of game info/data..maps all that jazz), or do voice (roger wilco and that type of stuff), it can go up very quickly. And if you have a house with ppl sharing the connection you can exceed that limit very quickly. However, if you're the only one using the internet, I agree it's not that much.

Ya I guess there is a bunch of factors.

Are there any websites that show average data usage per hour or whatever on all the different services like Skype, Netflix, Hulu, etc.?

I'm just trying to understand how much internetz someone has to actually use to get up to 60-100GB a month even with those high data using sites.