CBC Homeopathy, Cure or con...

[GGG]

Doctors should be able to prescribe Placebo's to people without the patients knowledge. They are proven to work better than doing nothing. People using homeopathy to "cure" and "prevent" colds and other minor aches and pains is very good for our health system. It leads to one less person in the doctors office trying to get anti-biotics for a cough. The human body is very interesting in that belief in a cure is as important as the cure itself. Some of my favourite studies I have read shows that if you give some one a placebo with a list of negative side effects people will report experiencing the negative side effects. This cure through attitude aspect of the human body is something that should be taken advantage of

However Homeopathy becomes very dangerous when they start offering Polio vaccines and claiming they can cure cancer. If you are making Health claims about lethal diseases you should have to prove it works. Not necessarily prove it works better than a placebo or better than the conventiontial treatment but at least provide detailed studies to patients about probably outcomes.

[TorqueDog]

I posted this video on my Facebook and immediately got a response from someone who believes in this sort of thing.

The response was pretty well what I'd expect:

So the fact that traditional medicine kills over 200,000 people a year is not concerning to MarketPlace... but one kid supposedly dies from Homeopathy and its a public outrage?

You know James they used to believe that the world was flat because they were too closed minded to believe otherwise. You, of all people, knows that there is much that we do not know or understand... look at the advancements in technology... computers, cell phones, blackberry's...your current profession did not exist 25 years ago... does that make it bogus or FAKE? I hope your world rounds out real soon. Those sqaure edges in your mind are most unbecoming.

Apparently "open-minded" is synonymous with "gullible" nowadays.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by GGG

Doctors should be able to prescribe Placebo's to people without the patients knowledge.

No they shouldn't. That's the stupidest idea ever.

[NuclearFart]

Originally Posted by GGG

Doctors should be able to prescribe Placebo's to people without the patients knowledge.

That would be considered unethical and against everything modern medicine stands for.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

I posted this video on my Facebook and immediately got a response from someone who believes in this sort of thing.

The response was pretty well what I'd expect:

Apparently "open-minded" is synonymous with "gullible" nowadays.

Yes but all the things he mentioned are based on real science. Blindly buying into homeopathic medicine is the definition of being narrow minded. The guy who designed the blackberry can explain to you all of the technical details and scienctific principles it is based on. Homeopaths are pimping a product they have no idea about, that was concieved by a guy that had what would likely amount to a grade 9 education in todays world.

Just some bs magical thinking. Ask your friend if they also like 'The Secret' I would put money on the fact that they buy into that as well.

[Ashartus]

Originally Posted by flamesrule_kipper34

Are herbs to help with problems in the body for example considered homeopathy or just alternative medicine?

I totally buy into herbs helping better than some other medicine in some cases.

Herbal medicines are not homeopathy. Some herbal medicines do work - but they're often untested, frequently contaminated, they contain numerous other chemicals (which in some cases can be harmful or have other unforeseen effects) and the dose of the active chemical is generally unknown. I wouldn't say they work "better" than other medicines - generally when a herbal medicine does work, someone can extract (or synthesize) the active chemical and sell it in controlled doses to make a more effective medicine. There are also a lot of traditional herbal medicines which people use for various conditions with either no evidence that they work or evidence that they don't work. But unlike homeopathy, herbal medicines can have an actual clinical effect.

[Thor]

Not to mention with herbal medicine you are looking at the starting point for a great number of medicines you see at your local pharmacy. When claims about a plant are made, drug companies spend millions of dollars researching them until they find out what is the active ingredient that has the desired affect, then they make it simple and usable to a mass audience.

The fact you are taking a pill instead of chomping on a leaf seems to bother a lot of people, they don't realize that all this pill is doing is taking what nature gave us and make it 10000 times more effective and useful.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by pylon

Ask your friend if they also like 'The Secret' I would put money on the fact that they buy into that as well.

LOL. She does, you hit the nail on the head.

Fotze, I didn't. I have far more tact than that, especially since this person is a family member. I did however post a rather long reply to which I have yet to receive a response to. I love how I get called out for the "square edges" in my mind because I refuse to just go with something instead of questioning it.

[Itse]

There was this really informative link I found somewhere. Can't remember where anymore, but anyway, I think it really covers the subject well.

http://www.howdoeshomeopathywork.com/

[TorqueDog]

Pure brilliance.

[RougeUnderoos]

As sad as it sounds, I think a lot of people who buy into this don't even know what the word "dilution" actually means. It sounds science-y, so it must be right!

Maybe demonstrating with Kool-Aid would make them understand.

"You see? You see? When I make a bathtub full of Kool-Aid with just one envelope, I've diluted the Kool-Aid, making it weaker. See? It's not even the right color! It's not the electric green we normally get with Lemon-Lime. It's barely even green at all! You can't even taste Lemon/Lime! That's what they are doing with your medicine. That's why your rash won't go away"

[Street Pharmacist]

While I agree with posters on here about it being Hippie-placebo, I fail to see why this is worse than the diet aids available, most GI OTC products and 80% of cold products. Harmless placebos are safer than placebos with side effects, no? For example, Mucinex (American product, but same ingredient we have here in many cough syrups) recieves far more advertising dollars and is equally effective to homeopathic preparations (not at all), yet no anger there? There are plenty of placebos out there folks.


The difference I see as a pharmacist is more to do with the condescending attitude from those who use it. OT a little, but I find people often engage in converstation with me only to try and argue with me about homeopathic/natural medicine. My favorite moment was being introduced to some people at a friends house for a party and a girlfriend of one of the guest piped up in front of everyone:
"I don't believe in what you do. I grow my own Herbal medications. Why are you selling these medications for money when we have had herbs available that have been used for thousands of years?"
To which I replied:
"Because the average lifespan used to be 35 with those herbal medicines."
She then got red faced as everybody laughed and stormed out

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

As sad as it sounds, I think a lot of people who buy into this don't even know what the word "dilution" actually means. It sounds science-y, so it must be right!

Maybe demonstrating with Kool-Aid would make them understand.

"You see? You see? When I make a bathtub full of Kool-Aid with just one envelope, I've diluted the Kool-Aid, making it weaker. See? It's not even the right color! It's not the electric green we normally get with Lemon-Lime. It's barely even green at all! You can't even taste Lemon/Lime! That's what they are doing with your medicine. That's why your rash won't go away"

I can literally say it has happened about 100 times where someone asked me advice about a homeopathic product and when I explained what it was had no idea what it was despite having used it before.

[Rathji]

I thought homeopathic products used the thing that caused the problem, and then reduced it?

The example I was given by my wife's witch doctor, err Homeopath, is that say hemlock causes stomach ache. Then the cure to a stomach ache would be to take hemlock and reduced it how ever many times and it creates the "anti-stomach ache"

Not that it changes the fact that they don't do anything, but might as well make sure everyone has the correct info.

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

"Because the average lifespan used to be 35 with those herbal medicines."

LOL. That's brilliant. I'm going to use it.

[Ashartus]

Originally Posted by Rathji

I thought homeopathic products used the thing that caused the problem, and then reduced it?

The example I was given by my wife's witch doctor, err Homeopath, is that say hemlock causes stomach ache. Then the cure to a stomach ache would be to take hemlock and reduced it how ever many times and it creates the "anti-stomach ache"

Not that it changes the fact that they don't do anything, but might as well make sure everyone has the correct info.

Pretty much. One of my old textbooks had a part about the guy who invented homeopathy. It said that basically he found out about a concept in toxicology called hormesis, which means a lot of substances have a beneficial effect in small amounts but become toxic in larger amounts. He totally misinterpreted the concept, and decided that even smaller amounts would be even more beneficial (which is not the case), and that if you diluted it to the point where the original substance wasn't in it at all it would be even better.

[TorqueDog]

In the spring, I tore my ACL and had pretty well resigned myself to the idea of needing surgery. I had scheduled my MRI at Mayfair to the tune of $750.

This same family member heard about my injury and inquired how I was doing. When I said I wouldn't be surprised if I needed surgery, she immediately suggested that I go see a friend of hers who practices homeopathy in Calgary to perform some energy healing on my knee. I just about lost my sh*t, but politely declined, saying that I had some great doctors looking after me and that I would be getting my MRI done shortly for a more definitive answer.

She was very persistent that I should go see her friend, and started on the same babble about conventional medicine killing people and all that. I finally said I would just so she'd drop the subject.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Rathji

I thought homeopathic products used the thing that caused the problem, and then reduced it?

The example I was given by my wife's witch doctor, err Homeopath, is that say hemlock causes stomach ache. Then the cure to a stomach ache would be to take hemlock and reduced it how ever many times and it creates the "anti-stomach ache"

Not that it changes the fact that they don't do anything, but might as well make sure everyone has the correct info.

Yes and er, no. It is diluted to the point where there mathmatically cannot be any of the molecules of the original ingredient left (using Avegadro's number which is the number of atoms per mole you can show that the dilution is such where there is likely not one of the original molecules left). The concept of like-cures-like is not that crazy, but the whole "water has a memory" is a bit of a stretch.

[photon]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

She was very persistent that I should go see her friend, and started on the same babble about conventional medicine killing people and all that. I finally said I would just so she'd drop the subject.

You left out the most important part! Did it work!??

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

but the whole "water has a memory" is a bit of a stretch.

Heh, if water has a memory, why does it only remember whatever the homeopathic practitioner wants it to remember, and not the bazillion other things its come in contact with over the eons?

Or maybe it can only remember one thing at a time? But that doesn't work, because then when you drink it the last thing it'll remember is your saliva, or the lining of your stomach, or the acid.

[Phaneuf3]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

While I agree with posters on here about it being Hippie-placebo, I fail to see why this is worse than the diet aids available, most GI OTC products and 80% of cold products. Harmless placebos are safer than placebos with side effects, no? For example, Mucinex (American product, but same ingredient we have here in many cough syrups) recieves far more advertising dollars and is equally effective to homeopathic preparations (not at all), yet no anger there? There are plenty of placebos out there folks.

To me the problem comes from the gravity of the claim. Trying to alleviate the symptoms from a common cold? Fine - take a sugar pill or take a water capsule if you want a placebo. I don't really care. It might be a scam and ineffective but it's not really going to do you any harm.

You can't say the same thing about when homeopaths claim that their sugar pills will cure cancer or HIV or are more effective than vaccinations and people forgo real treatment in favor of this junk.