Anyone ever tried Deer Antler Extract or IGF-1

[amorak]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I wouldn't even try it. It sounds like quackery.

Only studies and products funded by pharmaceutical companies are safe and reliable. They have your best interest in mind.

Mikey, did you take off your tinfoil hat and join the rest of us in commonsense-land?

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by amorak

Mikey, did you take off your tinfoil hat and join the rest of us in commonsense-land?

I was aiming for extreme sarcasm....

[Kybosh]

It always blows my mind that "natural supplements" aren't subject to the same strict testing that pharmaceuticals are. It is completely wacky.

[troutman]

The "natural supplement" product web-sites all look the same after a while. You could substitute "deer antler" for "oxygenated water" or "tiger dicks" and the sites would still look the same.

They are selling untested products for profit. They have your best interest in mind.

[Ashartus]

Kybosh - I agree 100%. The natural products lobby is pretty strong though and have been able to prevent proper regulation. People complain about the greed of the multi-billion dollar pharmaceutical industry, but seem to think the multi-billion dollar natural products industry is some altruistic entity, and that it's only because they care about us that they don't want to have to test their products to make sure they're safe and that they work.

Personally, questions about efficacy/safety aside, if I was going to take IGF-1 I'd rather get it in a purified form with a controlled dose rather than from a deer antler extract that probably has little or no quality control. But I'm not an athlete trying to fool drug testers.

[nickerjones]

Originally Posted by TheSutterDynasty

You could just exercise/lose weight/eat better.

Yeah I have been a type 1 diabetic for 7 years now. I didnt get it from being overweight, or eating bad, or not exercising. While I am overweight now ,when I was diagnosed with Diabetes I was playing college baseball . I was in decent shape at least I like to think so. I got really sick while I was playing , shortly after I became sick I started showing symptoms and was then diagnosed as a diabetic.

I really was just curious as I would like to see a cure for type 1 diabetes some day . That is all . I was not looking for a easy fix to be able to eat sugar and get "fatter" .

[oilyfan]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I wouldn't even try it. It sounds like quackery.

Only studies and products funded by pharmaceutical companies are safe and reliable. They have your best interest in mind.

Next time you have a bacterial infection, ignore the penicillin and go for the oilve leaf extract, then we will talk about who has your best interests in mind.

[TheSutterDynasty]

Originally Posted by nickerjones

Yeah I have been a type 1 diabetic for 7 years now. I didnt get it from being overweight, or eating bad, or not exercising. While I am overweight now ,when I was diagnosed with Diabetes I was playing college baseball . I was in decent shape at least I like to think so. I got really sick while I was playing , shortly after I became sick I started showing symptoms and was then diagnosed as a diabetic.

I really was just curious as I would like to see a cure for type 1 diabetes some day . That is all . I was not looking for a easy fix to be able to eat sugar and get "fatter" .

Fair enough.

I just assume that when people are looking for ways to improve their condition they are type 2. Besides advanced pharmacological intervention I was under the impression that if you're type 1 you're basically hooped.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by oilyfan

Next time you have a bacterial infection, ignore the penicillin and go for the oilve leaf extract, then we will talk about who has your best interests in mind.

Sure the big pharmaceutical companies have a lot of good products but I wouldn't give them a carte blanch pass, not while they are pushing their addictive drugs on a lot of people who would probably be better off without them.

[amorak]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Sure the big pharmaceutical companies have a lot of good products but I wouldn't give them a carte blanch pass, not while they are pushing their addictive drugs on a lot of people who would probably be better off without them.

You do know that Doctors have to prescribe those drugs, I can't just walk up to the pharmacy and say "200 Vicodin like the ads tell me please, sir". How are they then pushing them on me? Unless they are in cahoots with my GP!!

[puckluck]

pharmaceutical companies bribe doctors and clinics.

It shouldn't really be that big of a surprise. My brother in law owns and runs a big clinic in Calgary and he has guys come in all the time that try to push their drugs on him and the other doctors there with bribes.

He tells them to eff off. It does happen.

Pretty sure there are doctors who do take the bribes and prescribe that drug instead of a similiar drug.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by amorak

You do know that Doctors have to prescribe those drugs, I can't just walk up to the pharmacy and say "200 Vicodin like the ads tell me please, sir". How are they then pushing them on me? Unless they are in cahoots with my GP!!

While I'm not saying all doctors or even the majority are being bought, it is a problem and an informed person should be aware, so fata off with your emoticons.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/02/business/02drug.html

In February, federal prosecutors in Boston announced a civil lawsuit against Forest claiming that the company illegally marketed both Lexapro and a closely related antidepressant, Celexa, for use in children and paid kickbacks to doctors to induce them to prescribe the medicines to children.

[oilyfan]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

While I'm not saying all doctors or even the majority are being bought, it is a problem and an informed person should be aware, so fata off with your emoticons.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/02/business/02drug.html

And yet we should give carte blanche to a naturaopath or alternative healer who does not have to prove the safety or efficacy of the herb "drug" him/her prescribes? Who checks this? An online community of amateur healers?

[troutman]

I think it is safe to say there is far more fraud in CAM than mainstream medicine. And mainstream medicine is regulated and is self-correcting through the scientific method.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by oilyfan

And yet we should give carte blanche to a naturaopath or alternative healer who does not have to prove the safety or efficacy of the herb "drug" him/her prescribes? Who checks this? An online community of amateur healers?

When did I say that?

[oilyfan]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

When did I say that?

You're right you never said it but I also didn't see you make the same comment about the standard of due diligence exercised by the proponents of alternative medicine as you did for big pharma.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by oilyfan

You're right you never said it but I also didn't see you make the same comment about the standard of due diligence exercised by the proponents of alternative medicine as you did for big pharma.

Well like in my original statement about doctors and big pharmaceutical companies, I kind of took it for granted that most people know these things. I trust very few people without some investigation, everybody has an agenda, and only a few have our best interests at heart.

[badradio]

To quote Tim Minchin:

“By definition”, I begin
“Alternative Medicine”, I continue
“Has either not been proved to work,
Or been proved not to work.
You know what they call “alternative medicine”
That’s been proved to work?
Medicine.”

“So you don’t believe
In ANY Natural remedies?”

“On the contrary actually:
Before we came to tea,
I took a natural remedy
Derived from the bark of a willow tree
A painkiller that’s virtually side-effect free
It’s got a weird name,
Darling, what was it again?
Masprin?
Basprin?
Asprin!
Which I paid about a buck for
Down at my local drugstore.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I wouldn't even try it. It sounds like quackery.

Only studies and products funded by pharmaceutical companies are safe and reliable. They have your best interest in mind.

Is your paranoia limited to things that make profit, oddly because you constantly support capitalism over socialism and put great faith in the marketplace over government interference.

Odd that you specifically target profit making drug companies, to distrust while all the while trusting the rest of corporate interests.

If I though it was that simple, because not every study is funded by a capitalistic venture, in face, a great deal of research is not funded by what you would assume to be the 'interest' groups/companies.

I know its hard to understand, but because a study you disagree with isn't funded by your mortal enemy "capitalism" doesn't mean some independent study by a university or non profit research group isn't trust worthy.

But faced with evidence and facts, not like you'll change your opinion, we all have learned this by now.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by puckluck

pharmaceutical companies bribe doctors and clinics.

It shouldn't really be that big of a surprise. My brother in law owns and runs a big clinic in Calgary and he has guys come in all the time that try to push their drugs on him and the other doctors there with bribes.

He tells them to eff off. It does happen.

Pretty sure there are doctors who do take the bribes and prescribe that drug instead of a similiar drug.

The stupidity it burns. Hey google any drug prescribed by doctors, if there was any conspiracy to trick you into unnecessary drugs it would be exposed instantly.

I know its hard to imagine that a doctor would have your best interest at heart, or that with the freedom of information that any company could push/create a drug on the public that wasn't in fact anything better than a placebo.

Crazy how we need evidence and reality to rule the drug industry, do they companies push various drugs, YES, do doctors get incentives to prescribe them, sure.

Do those drugs have evidence to back up their claims, YES.

Does #####ing big placebo do the same, no, they make claims and have no evidence to back up their claims. Troutman has repeatedly showed us the many typical claims they all make, it would be hard to not find a scam/big placebo claim that does not do exactly what he has listed.