The Official NBA 2010/2011 Thread

[moon]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I think most people in Cleveland were just mad that Lebron did not state his intentions that he wanted to leave. He played it off all summer like there was a good chance that he was going back to Cleveland, said things that made it look like he might go back there, and then held an hour long tv special saying he was going to Miami.

Maybe it played differently in Cleveland but I always felt it was obvious that he wasn't going back to Cleveland.

To me it seemed to come down to whether he was going to NY, Chicago or Miami, Cleveland seemed out of the running very early on.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by moon

Maybe it played differently in Cleveland but I always felt it was obvious that he wasn't going back to Cleveland.

To me it seemed to come down to whether he was going to NY, Chicago or Miami, Cleveland seemed out of the running very early on.

It seemed that way but if I remember correctly there were reports as close as 48 hours before that made it seem like Lebron was going back to Cleveland, I think there was even one report the night before (when Wade and Bosh signed) that had him staying in Cleveland.

[flames_1987]

The interview with Larry King definitely gave the impression that Cleveland was still in the running.

Dan Gilbert acting like an idiot after, does not make me like Lebron James anymore.

Can someone please tell me when people outside of Laker fans have applauded Kobe Bryant's personality or character over his year? Kobe Bryant has been one of the most hated players in the NBA for years now, and there's evidence as recent as the finals last year and how many people were cheering against him. Stop making the argument that fans have put him on a pedestal Lebron should look up to in terms of his character and attitude over his career.

The reason the two are viewed differently is simply because Kobe Bryant has 5 championships to his name while Lebron has 0. The latest memory people have of Lebron in the playoffs is game 6 vs the Celtics.

[tendulkar23]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I think most people in Cleveland were just mad that Lebron did not state his intentions that he wanted to leave. He played it off all summer like there was a good chance that he was going back to Cleveland, said things that made it look like he might go back there, and then held an hour long tv special saying he was going to Miami.

I think people in Cleveland are stupid for being mad at LeBron for not stating his intentions early on. According to league rules, a FA is not allowed to talk to any other teams about contracts until the free agency period starts. So, he couldn't have known whether he was leaving for sure early on because he would have had to meet other teams and hear their proposals.

Cavs fans should be mad at their GM for not preparing for the possibility that LeBron might not come back. The fact that he just expected LeBron to come back was a horrible mistake. I mean, LeBron owes nothing to the city of Cleveland, in fact I would argue the opposite. The Cavs team was terrible for a long time before LeBron was drafted. Nobody wanted to sign there and I'm sure they're headed right back in that same direction. Just terrible managing by Dan Gilbert and nobody can stress that fact enough.

In terms of "The Decision", I don't think that was exclusively for LeBron, the man would have made all headlines regardless. However, it did raise 2.5 million for the boys and girls club of america. I don't really like "the decision" or hate it, I take it for it was, a charity event. If you wanted to watch it, you could, no one was forcing you. I just don't understand the people that don't like LeBron for "The Decision" because it's the popular decision.

[tendulkar23]

Originally Posted by flames_1987

The interview with Larry King definitely gave the impression that Cleveland was still in the running.

Dan Gilbert acting like an idiot after, does not make me like Lebron James anymore.

Can someone please tell me when people outside of Laker fans have applauded Kobe Bryant's personality or character over his year? Kobe Bryant has been one of the most hated players in the NBA for years now, and there's evidence as recent as the finals last year and how many people were cheering against him. Stop making the argument that fans have put him on a pedestal Lebron should look up to in terms of his character and attitude over his career.

The reason the two are viewed differently is simply because Kobe Bryant has 5 championships to his name while Lebron has 0. The latest memory people have of Lebron in the playoffs is game 6 vs the Celtics.

Since you mentioned LeBron's game 6 vs the Celtics. Why not consider Kobe's game 7 vs. the Celtics. Horrible, horrible game from Kobe, but everyone forgets it because the Lakers won.

Also, I just wanted to remind everyone that Kobe won his championships with Shaq (best player in the game during the Lakers 3-peat) and with Pau Gasol. Two perennial all-stars accompanied Kobe to those championships. LeBron has just started playing with a contending team. To take this even further, the GM recognized exactly what Kobe was missing, an inside threat. Without Pau or Shaq, Kobe was unable to take the Lakers anywhere in the playoffs and even missed them one season. LeBron, on the other hand, took the Cavs to the Finals with a less than stellar squad. Even Michael Jordan (my favorite player) won his championships with the help of Scottie Pippen (a great player in his own right) and a well put together supporting cast. LeBron, definitely tried his all to bring the championship to Cleveland.

Why would you bring up the Larry King interview? As far as anyone knows, Cleveland came up just short of keeping LeBron. Being in the running doesn't mean you're sure to win the race. No one knows how the decision was made or how close it was. Don't get mad at him for expressing the fact that he was heavily considering staying in Cleveland.

Another thing that really bothers me is when people claim that LeBron ditched his hometown. He's from Akron, not Cleveland, same state, but not the same city. That's like if Jarome left and everyone roasted him for leaving his hometown.

[flames_1987]

All your doing is venting about things people have said about Lebron, that have nothing to do with people think on this forum. Everyone roasted him for leaving his hometown? No, a small percentage of Cavs fans did that. You are stereotyping everyone that dislikes Lebron as being of the same mold

I brought up the Larry King interview because Moon made the comment that he thought Cleveland was out of the running right away in his mind.

Lebron in Game 6 vs the Celtics was nothing like Kobe in game 7. Lebron gave up in that game, Kobe had a bad game but was still busting his ass. Lebron was playing the last game of his contract against a Boston defense that was beating him up, and he gave up.

You don't think Kobe wasn't harshly criticized for those years he missed the playoffs and fans didn't dump him? Again it seems like Kobe is being put up on this pedestal of public perception, that he has never come close to being on. Had it not been for Lebron this offseason, there is no doubt in my mind Kobe would be known as one of the most disliked players in the entire association.

It seems like almost every response to you bringing up this subject, nobody is mad about Lebron just for leaving Cleveland and deciding to go somewhere else. Your talking about a minority of people who don't exist on this board. A lot of people simply don't like Lebron because of the way he chose to conduct himself from past instances the last few years, this offseason and now this season.

[moon]

[QUOTE=flames_1987;2890318]

The interview with Larry King definitely gave the impression that Cleveland was still in the running.

Dan Gilbert acting like an idiot after, does not make me like Lebron James anymore.

I did not see the interview with King, but felt that if he was going back to Cleveland he likely would have done it sooner. Every day that he went to other cities and saw what a real NBA organization looked like I felt like it was another nail in the Cleveland coffin.

Can someone please tell me when people outside of Laker fans have applauded Kobe Bryant's personality or character over his year? Kobe Bryant has been one of the most hated players in the NBA for years now, and there's evidence as recent as the finals last year and how many people were cheering against him. Stop making the argument that fans have put him on a pedestal Lebron should look up to in terms of his character and attitude over his career.

Bryant took a hit when it all went down but from what I see from the media and many fans it seems like most is forgotten and because he grits his teeth like an idiot people seem to go with the he cares so much BS.

The reason the two are viewed differently is simply because Kobe Bryant has 5 championships to his name while Lebron has 0. The latest memory people have of Lebron in the playoffs is game 6 vs the Celtics.

And thank god for Shaq and Phil or else he would have 0 championships.

[tendulkar23]

Originally Posted by flames_1987

All your doing is venting about things people have said about Lebron, that have nothing to do with people think on this forum. Everyone roasted him for leaving his hometown? No, a small percentage of Cavs fans did that. You are stereotyping everyone that dislikes Lebron as being of the same mold

Actually, I only brought up those points because there were a number of posters who seemed very negative towards LeBron and I wanted to know why. I know it's the popular opinion to hate James, so I was wondering if it was the typical "I don't like LeBron because the sports writers told me I shouldn't".

Lebron in Game 6 vs the Celtics was nothing like Kobe in game 7. Lebron gave up in that game, Kobe had a bad game but was still busting his ass. Lebron was playing the last game of his contract against a Boston defense that was beating him up, and he gave up.

How can you even make that comparison, James put up 27 points, 19 rebounds, 10 assists. Kobe had 23 points, 15 rebounds, and 2 assists (on 25% shooting). Where did LeBron supposedly "quit"? The only reason you believe that is because that is what Dan Gilbert (Cleveland GM) claimed after LeBron left.

The Cavaliers should count themselves lucky that they even got to play the Celtics in the playoffs. One player should not be expected to have a triple-double every night. If Kobe can have a bad night, why can't LeBron?

Because without LeBron playing at the highest level in the game, that team couldn't win. It's clear to everyone now that he was the reason they were so successful. Even the Jordan-less Bulls in 93-94 were able to achieve 55 wins and make the second round of the playoffs.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

I think most people in Cleveland were just mad that Lebron did not state his intentions that he wanted to leave. He played it off all summer like there was a good chance that he was going back to Cleveland, said things that made it look like he might go back there, and then held an hour long tv special saying he was going to Miami.

Does anyone but Lebron know for sure he had no intentions to stay in Cleveland?

Maybe he was going to stay if the owner showed he was going to make his team better instead of having Lebron himself turn a team who will be lucky to win 15 games into a 60+ win team.

You become a professional, especially one with the talents of Lebron, to win games and championships. If your owner/GM doesn't show you he is willing to get the players you need, I hope you would leave too if you wanted to win.

You would just think that having one of the best players in the league would give you a reason to get some better players around him after watching him carry a team to the finals, but Cleveland management and owners just wanted Lebron to do all the work.

[malcolmk14]

Originally Posted by tendulkar23

Actually, I only brought up those points because there were a number of posters who seemed very negative towards LeBron and I wanted to know why. I know it's the popular opinion to hate James, so I was wondering if it was the typical "I don't like LeBron because the sports writers told me I shouldn't".

I have been a huge fan of LeBron James since he was a junior in high school. The hype surrounding him playing HS ball and making the jump to the NBA is what turned me from a casual NBA fan into a die-hard fanatic. I picked media hype surrounding LeBron James for school assignments. I remember every minute of his first NBA game against the Kings. I bought his jerseys, I talked about his games and soaked up everything about him and the Cavaliers on a daily basis. I didn't really have a favourite team until he was drafted, and I decided I would be a fan of whatever team he was drafted to. I've planned trips around seeing him play live. I have been a huge fan of LeBron since day 1.

All of that being said, his "Decision" special on ESPN this summer was a dose of reality for me. We as fans invest so much time in these athletes, we deify them and put them up on such a pedestal, and they don't give us anything in return. I wanted LeBron to play his entire career in Cleveland, I wanted him to win championships for a city that NEEDS a championship, I wanted him to care about being the best ever. I placed all of these expectations on a player who clearly didn't care about any of that. He just wanted to play with his friends in Miami.

Watching "The Decision" this summer made me realize that what's important to me as a fan doesn't matter at all to LeBron James. It's clear by his actions this summer that the guy is a self-serving narcissist, and frankly I'm embarassed and ashamed that I dedicated so many hours of my life to caring about what he does. Sure, it's not his job to care what we think as fans, and I have no problem with him leaving Cleveland. What I do have a problem with, however, is HOW he left Cleveland. I've never seen an athlete remorselessly burn a city so bad in my life. It was heartbreaking.

Even after seeing that, though, I can't help but care about some athletes. I was so happy for Roy Halladay when he threw the no-hitter in the playoffs, because he means something to me as a Jays fan and a sports fan in general. Him taking out a full-page ad in the Toronto Sun, thanking the fans for their dedication and kindness, when Toronto traded him was one of the most touching things I've seen an athlete do in my lifetime as a sports fan. I'll be happy for Jarome Iginla when he scores his 500th goal, regardless of what jersey he is wearing or where he does it. He's a class-act, treats fans with respect, and appreciates what he has. Those guys CARE.

But I'll never concern myself with anything LeBron James does ever again, because if it's clear that he doesn't care, why should I?

[tendulkar23]

Originally Posted by malcolmk14

I have been a huge fan of LeBron James since he was a junior in high school. The hype surrounding him playing HS ball and making the jump to the NBA is what turned me from a casual NBA fan into a die-hard fanatic. I picked media hype surrounding LeBron James for school assignments. I remember every minute of his first NBA game against the Kings. I bought his jerseys, I talked about his games and soaked up everything about him and the Cavaliers on a daily basis. I didn't really have a favourite team until he was drafted, and I decided I would be a fan of whatever team he was drafted to. I've planned trips around seeing him play live. I have been a huge fan of LeBron since day 1.

All of that being said, his "Decision" special on ESPN this summer was a dose of reality for me. We as fans invest so much time in these athletes, we deify them and put them up on such a pedestal, and they don't give us anything in return. I wanted LeBron to play his entire career in Cleveland, I wanted him to win championships for a city that NEEDS a championship, I wanted him to care about being the best ever. I placed all of these expectations on a player who clearly didn't care about any of that. He just wanted to play with his friends in Miami.

Watching "The Decision" this summer made me realize that what's important to me as a fan doesn't matter at all to LeBron James. It's clear by his actions this summer that the guy is a self-serving narcissist, and frankly I'm embarassed and ashamed that I dedicated so many hours of my life to caring about what he does. Sure, it's not his job to care what we think as fans, and I have no problem with him leaving Cleveland. What I do have a problem with, however, is HOW he left Cleveland. I've never seen an athlete remorselessly burn a city so bad in my life. It was heartbreaking.

Even after seeing that, though, I can't help but care about some athletes. I was so happy for Roy Halladay when he threw the no-hitter in the playoffs, because he means something to me as a Jays fan and a sports fan in general. Him taking out a full-page ad in the Toronto Sun, thanking the fans for their dedication and kindness, when Toronto traded him was one of the most touching things I've seen an athlete do in my lifetime as a sports fan. I'll be happy for Jarome Iginla when he scores his 500th goal, regardless of what jersey he is wearing or where he does it. He's a class-act, treats fans with respect, and appreciates what he has. Those guys CARE.

But I'll never concern myself with anything LeBron James does ever again, because if it's clear that he doesn't care, why should I?

I understand the guy left in an entirely new way, but he never really said any negative things about Cleveland. "The Decision" was clearly an attempt on his part to explain his decision to the Cavs fans. It was a bad idea to do it, but he would have gotten roasted in the media either way, so at least he got everything he wanted to say off of his chest.

As far as I can tell, LeBron cares too much what his fans and critics think and that's been his problem. He wanted to explain himself in "The Decision" and then he wants to win some championships because that's what everyone points to when arguing against him being the best player in the league. It seems like he'll do anything to shut the critics up, but he needs to learn that there will always be something new for them to criticize.

The fact that he is such a huge fan of Jordan is probably why he wants to be so well liked. Jordan was loved world-wide and was the NBA poster boy throughout most of his career. I think LeBron wanted his career to be similar to that and he definitely messed it up with a few mistakes.

I find your accusation that you've never seen an athlete remorselessly burn a city so bad, hilarious. IMO it's a lot worse to demand a trade and ditch a city than to leave after your contract is up. Even with LeBron doing it via "The Decision", it is still not as bad as a franchise player, like Kareem Abdual Jabbar, demanding a trade.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by tendulkar23

I find your accusation that you've never seen an athlete remorselessly burn a city so bad, hilarious. IMO it's a lot worse to demand a trade and ditch a city than to leave after your contract is up. Even with LeBron doing it via "The Decision", it is still not as bad as a franchise player, like Kareem Abdual Jabbar, demanding a trade.

Not necessarily at least if a player demands a trade you know where he stands and the team gets some assets in return for the player.

A good example is right now with Melo where he clearly stated that he had no intentions of staying in Denver, so now the Nuggets are able to trade him and actually get a damn good return for him if the package from the Nets goes through.

Lebron sat there and said how much he loved Cleveland, how much he loved playing there and how they were such a fun team and he loved playing with those guys but then at the FIRST opportunity he had to bolt he did. There is a reason that he turned from the media's poster boy to getting raked over the coals after he made that decision.

I am in the group that feels that these three had decided they were going to play together from the Olympics in 2008 like all the rumours state and that all the Free Agency posturing was just a way for them to feed their egos by telling them how awesome they are and to make some cute little documentaries.

For an example more close to home if in 2002 Iginla had spent all season stating how much he loved the Flames, that he loved the city, loved playing with his teammated, that he felt like he had an opportunity to win a Championship with this team but then at the end of the season fled to the Avalanche or Red Wings at his first opportunity to leave as a FA.

I have a feeling that Iggy would have been just as villified in Calgary as Lebron is in Cleveland right now had that happened and that people on this board would probably not be justifing that decision.

[octothorp]

Bucks fans might disagree, but from an objective perspective, Jabbar wasn't nearly as heartbreaking a trade as James. Jabbar had already won the organization a championship. He was honest about his goals and values. He gave the organization time to put together a trade that netted a solid return.

Imagine if James had won a championship early in his career with Cleveland, then decided he needed a change for personal reasons, and made this desires known and gave the team a year to get a trade done, eventually accepting a trade to an awful team that satisfied his personal requirements, and which netted the Cavs a good enough return that they would win their division (albeit with a sub-500 record) the next season.

How is that worse than what actually transpired? It's actually better in every possible way: it was far better for the fans, who would have known what to expect; it was better for the organization, which would have received a decent return; and it was better for the player, who would have been respected for a) being honest about his intents, and b) almost single-handedly transforming an awful team into a championship contender.

[PeteLFan]

[QUOTE=moon;2890867]

Originally Posted by flames_1987

I did not see the interview with King, but felt that if he was going back to Cleveland he likely would have done it sooner. Every day that he went to other cities and saw what a real NBA organization looked like I felt like it was another nail in the Cleveland coffin.



Bryant took a hit when it all went down but from what I see from the media and many fans it seems like most is forgotten and because he grits his teeth like an idiot people seem to go with the he cares so much BS.



And thank god for Shaq and Phil or else he would have 0 championships.

Thank god for Kobe or Shaq would have 1, Kobe carried that team while Shaw was getting fat, and faking a foot injury and milking it.

[tendulkar23]

[QUOTE=PeteLFan;2892159]

Originally Posted by moon

Thank god for Kobe or Shaq would have 1, Kobe carried that team while Shaw was getting fat, and faking a foot injury and milking it.

Haha, you clearly never watched any of the NBA Finals for their 3-peat. Shaq won Finals MVP each time. With Shaq in the middle, every team had to double team him when he was in his prime. All Kobe had to do was get open and knock down an easy jumper.

[tendulkar23]

Originally Posted by octothorp

Bucks fans might disagree, but from an objective perspective, Jabbar wasn't nearly as heartbreaking a trade as James. Jabbar had already won the organization a championship. He was honest about his goals and values. He gave the organization time to put together a trade that netted a solid return.

Imagine if James had won a championship early in his career with Cleveland, then decided he needed a change for personal reasons, and made this desires known and gave the team a year to get a trade done, eventually accepting a trade to an awful team that satisfied his personal requirements, and which netted the Cavs a good enough return that they would win their division (albeit with a sub-500 record) the next season.

How is that worse than what actually transpired? It's actually better in every possible way: it was far better for the fans, who would have known what to expect; it was better for the organization, which would have received a decent return; and it was better for the player, who would have been respected for a) being honest about his intents, and b) almost single-handedly transforming an awful team into a championship contender.

The Jabbar trade is considered one of the worst in league history. How can any team be happy with that return?

[tendulkar23]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Not necessarily at least if a player demands a trade you know where he stands and the team gets some assets in return for the player.

LeBron still went through with a sign and trade, even though the team showed their true colors. Cleveland received two first rounders and two second rounders, along with a trade exception. LeBron had no business doing that, but he still did.

A good example is right now with Melo where he clearly stated that he had no intentions of staying in Denver, so now the Nuggets are able to trade him and actually get a damn good return for him if the package from the Nets goes through.

That's all fine and dandy, except for the fact that Carmelo has said that he does not want to be traded to New Jersey.

Lebron sat there and said how much he loved Cleveland, how much he loved playing there and how they were such a fun team and he loved playing with those guys but then at the FIRST opportunity he had to bolt he did.

That was not the first opportunity he got to leave. Do you not remember the extension he signed? Since when are rookie deals 7 years long?

For an example more close to home if in 2002 Iginla had spent all season stating how much he loved the Flames, that he loved the city, loved playing with his teammated, that he felt like he had an opportunity to win a Championship with this team but then at the end of the season fled to the Avalanche or Red Wings at his first opportunity to leave as a FA.

I have a feeling that Iggy would have been just as villified in Calgary as Lebron is in Cleveland right now had that happened and that people on this board would probably not be justifing that decision.

I know that I wouldn't blame the guy, our team was and still is doing a terrible job building around Iggy. I don't blame guys that leave during free agency, they don't owe anything to any team. They should pursue the best option for themselves. It's their career, not their team's.

[malcolmk14]

I think I gave a perfectly valid reason for disliking him, and you dismissed my position and called my accusation hilarious.

Whether you think my reasons for disliking lebron as a person are legitimate or not is your own business, but for me they are perfectly valid. I felt betrayed and saw lebron in a different light when he did what he did. We don't have to agree, you're not going to change my mind and I don't really care if I change yours.

I still respect what he does on the court and at the end of the day that's all he will be remembered for.

[PeteLFan]

I watched all the finals he might have won the MVP, but shaq was lazy and took regular seasons off, Kobe carried them for large portions of the regular season. You can't just make a stupid claim like Moon usually does about Kobe having 0 rings without Shaq, it works both ways. No Kobe no rings, No Shaq no rings.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by tendulkar23

The Jabbar trade is considered one of the worst in league history. How can any team be happy with that return?

Seriously?! They got Smith, a center who averaged 16 points, 11 boards, and 3 blocks that first season with the Bucks. He's still considered one of the best shot-blockers to ever play the game. And they got Winters, who had four straight seasons of 18+ points, was an all-star, played for nine seasons with the Bucks and had his jersey retired by them. They also retired Bridgeman's jersey, who played nine seasons with the Bucks, most of them average 14 points a game or better. Mayers was solid but unspectacular in four seasons with the Bucks. Unfortunately, they traded Smith to Cleveland after a couple seasons for two draft picks, which became Ernie Grunfeld and George Johnson, and that was where the Bucks really started to decline as a franchise.

Yeah, you'd rather have one of the the top players of all time than that group of guys, but it's not even close to the worst of all time.