When I was a deputy conservation officer in Ontario years ago, they handed me a Monadnock PR24S and told me to try to not hurt myself. Now that's a baton you can get some faux-nunchuk skills with.
I wouldn't recommend that. Major Major fire hazard. My friend had an apartment like that a few years back and while a fire didn't start, he passed out wasted at one of his parties lost his keys and we were all locked in the house. we finally had to crawl out the bathroom window.
Not much different than bars on windows. You have to determine what your risk is and proceed from there.
What's the rules on using a weapon like this to defend your property. Say someone breaks in and you catch them in your home and rather than run they start up with you, can you use this for a beat-down? How much of a beat-down? What if the intruder is unarmed?
What's the rules on using a weapon like this to defend your property. Say someone breaks in and you catch them in your home and rather than run they start up with you, can you use this for a beat-down? How much of a beat-down? What if the intruder is unarmed?
the law says reasonable force.
If a guy breaks into your home, you can probably beat the crap out of him with a baton, but you cant hold him down and beat him if hes not resisting... But it's a very grey line here in Canada. Whatever a reasonable person thinks is enough force to neutralize the threat.
For instance, if a drunk bum opened your front door that was unlocked and asked you for change, a reasonable person likely wouldn't think it reasonable that you shoot him in the face.
personally, I live by the following rule:
Better judged by twelve than carried by six
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I think there are different rules in rural areas...you can defend land to a greater degree than you can your house in the city.
The law is the same (although the jurors might not be), it still has to be proportionate and reasonable. I'm not sure a shotgun would be any more proportionate to a rural trespass.
When I was a deputy conservation officer in Ontario years ago, they handed me a Monadnock PR24S and told me to try to not hurt myself. Now that's a baton you can get some faux-nunchuk skills with.
How many times did you try to be all Bruce Lee with that and crack your own acorns?
Getting sprayed in training is more to prepare you for cross contamination. If you deploy OC, you will get that crap all over yourself, trust me
Mel:
Bear Spray is brutal on the lungs, but actually not that bad on the face and eyes. The Police stuff is different, it makes you leak like you just overdosed on Mucinex and you can't open your eyes... And the next day shower where it all comes back (and runs down) is among the worst experiences in my life. I'll take the taser ride 10 times before I opt to get sprayed again!
Traditional_Ale:
If you find someone committing a criminal offence on or in relation to your property, you can arrest that person. You can't give a "beat down" ever. I don't advocate untrained citizens trying to arrest anybody, but if you know what the law allows and want to do it, fill your boots. Use the 1+1 rule, but know that you always want to USE THE LEAST AMOUNT OF FORCE NEEDED TO CONTROL THE SUBJECT:
Cooperative: So are you, but you can give a tounge lashing and restrain him if you believe it to be needed.
Not-Cooperative (think hippy protestor not fighting but not listening): Use the least amount of force to gain compliance. Usually involves joint locks, pain compliance, etc.
Resisting (trying to get away but not hurting you): Bring him down. Knee strikes to the thighs are helpful.
Combative (wants to fight): Bring the fight to him. Punch, kick, OC, Taser, Baton to soft areas (legs and arms) are all good. Make sure you don't keep beating him once you've already won. NEVER LOSE (if you might be close to losing and he is still attacking, you're probably in the next category)!
Death or Greivous Bodily Harm: All bets are off, do what you've got to do to stop the threat immediately, anything goes.
If the guy suddenly stops fighting or wanting to fight and does what you tell him to after the sweet sound of the baton being deployed, then treat the subject as cooperavtive.
Best advice when you encounter a bad guy is to call the police!! They're paid, trained, and insured to take this stuff on. Let them deal with it.
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If you find someone committing a criminal offence on or in relation to your property, you can arrest that person. You can't give a "beat down" ever. I don't advocate untrained citizens trying to arrest anybody, but if you know what the law allows and want to do it, fill your boots. Use the 1+1 rule, but know that you always want to USE THE LEAST AMOUNT OF FORCE NEEDED TO CONTROL THE SUBJECT:
What's the deal with a citizen arrest anyways? Does this mean I can forcibly restrain, trap and/or restrain anyone I deem to be trespassing?
37. (1) Every one is justified in using force to defend himself or any one under his protection from assault, if he uses no more force than is necessary to prevent the assault or the repetition of it.
Extent of justification
(2) Nothing in this section shall be deemed to justify the wilful infliction of any hurt or mischief that is excessive, having regard to the nature of the assault that the force used was intended to prevent.
Defence of house or real property
41. (1) Every one who is in peaceable possession of a dwelling-house or real property, and every one lawfully assisting him or acting under his authority, is justified in using force to prevent any person from trespassing on the dwelling-house or real property, or to remove a trespasser therefrom, if he uses no more force than is necessary.
(a) the owner or a person in lawful possession of property, or
(b) a person authorized by the owner or by a person in lawful possession of property,
may arrest without warrant a person whom he finds committing a criminal offence on or in relation to that property. Delivery to peace officer (3) Any one other than a peace officer who arrests a person without warrant shall forthwith deliver the person to a peace officer. R.S., c. C-34, s. 449; R.S., c. 2(2nd Supp.), s. 5.
That is the section that allows a citizen to arrest someone he finds committing an offence. Note that in place that is not your property, it must be an indictable offence (includes dual procedure offences). Not all criminal offences are indictable, but the great majority are.
"Finds committing" means you have to see the offence in its entirety.
You are allowed to use as much force as neccessary:
Protection of Persons Administering and Enforcing the Law
25.(1) Every one who is required or authorized by law to do anything in the administration or enforcement of the law
(a) as a private person,
(b) as a peace officer or public officer,
(c) in aid of a peace officer or public officer, or
(d) by virtue of his office,
is, if he acts on reasonable grounds, justified in doing what he is required or authorized to do and in using as much force as is necessary for that purpose.
Idem (2) Where a person is required or authorized by law to execute a process or to carry out a sentence, that person or any person who assists him is, if that person acts in good faith, justified in executing the process or in carrying out the sentence notwithstanding that the process or sentence is defective or that it was issued or imposed without jurisdiction or in excess of jurisdiction.
When not protected (3) Subject to subsections (4) and (5), a person is not justified for the purposes of subsection (1) in using force that is intended or is likely to cause death or grievous bodily harm unless the person believes on reasonable grounds that it is necessary for the self-preservation of the person or the preservation of any one under that person’s protection from death or grievous bodily harm.
IF YOU USE MORE FORCE THAN IS REQUIRED, YOU ARE SUBJECT TO CRIMINAL CHARGES.
Also, any time you see a security guard at a mall catch a shoplifter (or something like that), they are making an arrest under CC494. They usually have handcuffs and are authorized to use them (as are you).
Police have been trained in law and all of the elements of offences, so they are granted greater powers to investigate and arrest/lay a charge based on information, without having seen the offence.
