More police brutality

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by bc-chris

i gotta chime in here for a second....

i live in kelowna and i've got a police scanner and heard all of this happen the other day. here's what i heard from the scanner...

a call comes in to 911 of a confirmed multiple shots fired at the harvest golf course. the suspect is seen with a shot gun and driving away in a pickup. the pickup's description and the direction of travel (truck left on KLO rd heading towards the lake) is aired to all members. that's all the cops got.

multiple units head to the golf course while others start looking for the truck. an officer spotted the truck around KLO and Pandosy... about 7 km from the golf course. if i recall correctly i think the shotgun was visible in a gun rack... once the truck was spotted everything happened really fast... especially becuz the officer immediately called for assistance. multiple units respond to the scene and the suspect is arrested.

now...
- do the arresting officers know the guy worked/works at the harvest - no
- do they know the guy is on disability - no
- do they know the guy was possibly firing blanks to scare off birds - no
- do they know the guy is armed - yes - could see the gun
- do they know if the guy will use the gun - absolutely - that's why they responded
- could this suspect possibly have another gun on him - yes
- are they in a crowed public area where others could be harmed if he has a concealed weapon - yes


i guess what i'm trying to say is that hindsight is 20/20.

one of my buddies is an axillary cop and we talked about this kind of thing in the past. he said that you have to assume the worst outcome with every situation - if you don't that's when you or your partner end up getting wounded or worse killed.


and if anyone is wondering - no - i'm not a cop!

That's basically what I was trying to get at in my post.
- pull over truck, acceptable
- multiple cars used for stop, acceptable
- guns drawn, acceptable
- orders to get down on the ground despite the busy street, acceptable
- kick to the face . . . there's where I draw the line.

From what I saw on the video, have read here, and saw on the news reports, that was far from acceptable. Even if he had a concealed weapon, he didn't have opportunity to use it, he had his hands were on the pavement when the kick took place.

I do think we're on the same lines, though. What the police officers did was acceptable and exactly the right thing to do, up until the kick.

[RyZ]

The cop may get a slap on the wrist but won't get punishment even close to what a normal citizen would get in the same circumstance.

[Buzzard]

Yeah you're likely right. He'll probably get a few weeks of paid stress leave, then back at 'er when it all blows over.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by RyZ

The cop may get a slap on the wrist but won't get punishment even close to what a normal citizen would get in the same circumstance.

He will likely lose his job. And most people would not be sent to prison over an assault, even if it is a kick to the face. I think that the officer went over the line with the kick to the face, I could understand if the man wasn't following any directions and there was a possibility of a weapon, but when he was following directions then it seems extreme to say the least.

[FlameOn]

Some police are quite brutal, wasn't there a cop that was forced to resign after smashing some guys balls in at forest lawn a few months ago? Even though the guy wasn't the suspect they were looking for at all.

[killer_carlson]

who the hell owns a police scanner? Are you affiliated with one of the "clubs" out there?

[Buzzard]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

He will likely lose his job. And most people would not be sent to prison over an assault, even if it is a kick to the face. I think that the officer went over the line with the kick to the face, I could understand if the man wasn't following any directions and there was a possibility of a weapon, but when he was following directions then it seems extreme to say the least.

No, the average person wouldnt go to jail. But the average person would be charged and most likely convicted of assault. I'm not sure if there is any kind of charge of "abuse of authority", but there damn well should be, and he should if nothing else, lose his job over it.

There are charges of impersonating a police officer, there should be an equal charge of authority abuse.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by bc-chris

now...
- do the arresting officers know the guy worked/works at the harvest - no
- do they know the guy is on disability - no
- do they know the guy was possibly firing blanks to scare off birds - no
- do they know the guy is armed - yes - could see the gun
- do they know if the guy will use the gun - absolutely - that's why they responded
- could this suspect possibly have another gun on him - yes
- are they in a crowed public area where others could be harmed if he has a concealed weapon - yes

i guess what i'm trying to say is that hindsight is 20/20.

Yeah, that's great and all, but this guy was doing everything they asked him to. He didn't make any moves for a weapon, and didn't seem to show any sign of resistance. A lot of times I can understand why cops go over the edge.... but this one has absolutely no justification.

[Roof-Daddy]

That's nice.

The victim is on medical leave because of a brain injury, then he takes an unprovoked kick to the head from a police officer.

Unreal.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by bc-chris

i gotta chime in here for a second....

i live in kelowna and i've got a police scanner and heard all of this happen the other day. here's what i heard from the scanner...

a call comes in to 911 of a confirmed multiple shots fired at the harvest golf course. the suspect is seen with a shot gun and driving away in a pickup. the pickup's description and the direction of travel (truck left on KLO rd heading towards the lake) is aired to all members. that's all the cops got.

multiple units head to the golf course while others start looking for the truck. an officer spotted the truck around KLO and Pandosy... about 7 km from the golf course. if i recall correctly i think the shotgun was visible in a gun rack... once the truck was spotted everything happened really fast... especially becuz the officer immediately called for assistance. multiple units respond to the scene and the suspect is arrested.

now...
- do the arresting officers know the guy worked/works at the harvest - no
- do they know the guy is on disability - no
- do they know the guy was possibly firing blanks to scare off birds - no
- do they know the guy is armed - yes - could see the gun
- do they know if the guy will use the gun - absolutely - that's why they responded
- could this suspect possibly have another gun on him - yes
- are they in a crowed public area where others could be harmed if he has a concealed weapon - yes


i guess what i'm trying to say is that hindsight is 20/20.

one of my buddies is an axillary cop and we talked about this kind of thing in the past. he said that you have to assume the worst outcome with every situation - if you don't that's when you or your partner end up getting wounded or worse killed.


and if anyone is wondering - no - i'm not a cop!

You're joking right? What about any of that little story you painted justifies kicking a guy down on all fours in the face? I look forward to your explanation.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by bc-chris

multiple units head to the golf course while others start looking for the truck. an officer spotted the truck around KLO and Pandosy... about 7 km from the golf course. if i recall correctly i think the shotgun was visible in a gun rack... once the truck was spotted everything happened really fast... especially becuz the officer immediately called for assistance. multiple units respond to the scene and the suspect is arrested.

And if so, it was still clearly visible while he was trying to lay on the ground. Could he have reached the gun? Absolutely not. Did he have it in his hands? Clearly not.

Like Maritime Q-Scout said, they seemed to respond reasonably right up until the boot to the face of an unarmed, complying person. They didn't know at the time that he was innocent and previously brain injured, nor were they expected to. But they could clearly see that he was complying with their orders and was zero threat to them or anyone around them, nor was he a flight risk. Brutal.

[theonlywhiteout]

sorry bc-chris but your post is totally irrelevant in this case. The "suspect" had surrendered to the police and was on his hands and knees. Really no need for the cop to give him a punt to the face. It's actually kind of sad to see someone try and defend the cop.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by Maritime Q-Scout

I'm in no way defending the actions of the police officer, not by any stretch of the imagination, however I would like to point out that the suspect was on disability leave, and not working at the golf course at the time. As the reporter says "when he is working" he was not.

That said, it appears that he was on the golf course, firing blanks to scare geese. Which when working is his job.

Umm he was working, the police said as much.

[killer_carlson]

that RCMP superintendant was really holding it in during that press conference. You could tell he thought the cop was WAY over the line in this.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

that RCMP superintendant was really holding it in during that press conference. You could tell he thought the cop was WAY over the line in this.

I felt that too. Usually you get a bunch of "no comment" and "it is under investigation". He clearly had a hard time trying to rationalize the cop's actions.

[rubecube]

A little unrelated, but the scary thing about this and, IMO, all police incidents, is that it's very hard to prove the cop was in the wrong without video evidence. I filed a complaint a few years back against a police officer who had acted illegally and unprofessionally, but was basically told to stuff it by his superior. I think the main problem is that all complaints against the police are dealt with internally and there's a lot of motivation to sweep this stuff under the rug.

Would be nice if there was a separate board set up that could deal with and investigate citizen's complaints.

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by peter12

The RCMP, especially, seems to have far lower standards for their entrance recruits than the city police forces. My cousin, who is basically a dead-beat, angry, and lowskilled was rejected out of hand by CPS but made it first-round into the RCMP. Last Christmas, he regaled us all with tasing stories.

Having to send new recruits to the NWT and other remote areas must play a part in that. If you have a top drawer 'police prospect' and can choose between doing real police work in a city centre or being stuck in La Loche Saskatchewan - not much of a decision I would say. The RCMP has to lower standards to fill the spots.

[Nage Waza]

I am not a cop, and I don't know what preceded that kick. But if I was a cop and I was called in to a situation where a gun was fired, you bet if the suspect did not immediately do as he was told, a kick to the head is a reasonable response, along with tazering and potentially shooting.. . Keep in mind that this guy was suspected for firing a gun and was found with the gun.

I certainly don't know that in this situation the kick was warranted, but I have seen (a few times) when police are rounding up drug dealers, they are often tackled first and questioned second. The tackles are not gentle either, they are hit flat from behind. This kick to the face seems status quo, not sure if that is good or not. That kick in the video looks pretty rough! Why do people keep saying he was complying? How can you tell from the video?

What the suspect's job is and the technicalities associated with why he was firing his gun at the point he was kicked was not known.

I think there are a few cops here who can tell us what the protocol is during that moment where a suspect is being ordered to the ground and some sort of non compliance. Do they yell out orders multiple times or do they boot the guy down and kneel on their head? Is kicking in the face worse then jumping onto the guys back and head?

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

I am not a cop, and I don't know what preceded that kick. But if I was a cop and I was called in to a situation where a gun was fired, you bet if the suspect did not immediately do as he was told, a kick to the head is a reasonable response, along with tazering and potentially shooting.. . Keep in mind that this guy was suspected for firing a gun and was found with the gun.

I certainly don't know that in this situation the kick was warranted, but I have seen (a few times) when police are rounding up drug dealers, they are often tackled first and questioned second. The tackles are not gentle either, they are hit flat from behind. This kick to the face seems status quo, not sure if that is good or not. That kick in the video looks pretty rough! Why do people keep saying he was complying? How can you tell from the video?

What the suspect's job is and the technicalities associated with why he was firing his gun at the point he was kicked was not known.

I think there are a few cops here who can tell us what the protocol is during that moment where a suspect is being ordered to the ground and some sort of non compliance. Do they yell out orders multiple times or do they boot the guy down and kneel on their head? Is kicking in the face worse then jumping onto the guys back and head?

You are just unreal.

You don't know the story behind why he was kicked in the face? Even after watching him on all fours being kicked in the face?

How much more evidence do you need that the officer got a little carried away?

If he was worried for his safety after having a loaded gun pointed at the subject while the subject was down on all fours then the officer does not belong to be in the RCMP or in any police force.

First off the officer made a mistake by being in the line of fire just in case someone did attempt to shoot at him. What are the other officers going to do in that case? he's right in the line of fire.

The police usually make the subject walk backwards to them not the other way around.

[Beerfest]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

I am not a cop, and I don't know what preceded that kick. But if I was a cop and I was called in to a situation where a gun was fired, you bet if the suspect did not immediately do as he was told, a kick to the head is a reasonable response, along with tazering and potentially shooting.. . Keep in mind that this guy was suspected for firing a gun and was found with the gun.

I certainly don't know that in this situation the kick was warranted, but I have seen (a few times) when police are rounding up drug dealers, they are often tackled first and questioned second. The tackles are not gentle either, they are hit flat from behind. This kick to the face seems status quo, not sure if that is good or not. That kick in the video looks pretty rough! Why do people keep saying he was complying? How can you tell from the video?

What the suspect's job is and the technicalities associated with why he was firing his gun at the point he was kicked was not known.

I think there are a few cops here who can tell us what the protocol is during that moment where a suspect is being ordered to the ground and some sort of non compliance. Do they yell out orders multiple times or do they boot the guy down and kneel on their head? Is kicking in the face worse then jumping onto the guys back and head?

The kick to the face seems status quo? Well then I guess we have some serious problems..

We know he was complying from witnesses said.

I really dont understand why you would attempt to defend this cop.