Airport Tunnel Rejected Again? **UPDATE** It's built!

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by taco.vidal

Honestly, if you had a citywide referendum on this now there would be no tunnel.

I disagree. 6 months ago, probably yes. However, due to the election race, I think many Calgarians have become educated on the issues surrounding this project and why it is not only needed, but needed now due to the imminent closing of Barlow Trail.

If you were to hold this referendum anytime after April 3rd, 2011, no question it would win.

This is all a false dilemma though anyway because there will not be a referendum on it nor should there be. Calgarians voted in the man who made building this tunnel the main plank in his platform.

[Slava]

I have heard all the arguments for and against and really don't care one way or the other. I live in the deep SW and frankly will never use this tunnel even once...I would expect most people from the other three quadrants are in that situation.

I expect that it will be built, and I guess that is great. I would expect that North-Easters getting their airport tunnel means as much to me as us in the SW getting our corner of ring-road. That is to say, not a hell of a lot.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Slava

I have heard all the arguments for and against and really don't care one way or the other. I live in the deep SW and frankly will never use this tunnel even once...I would expect most people from the other three quadrants are in that situation.

I expect that it will be built, and I guess that is great. I would expect that North-Easters getting their airport tunnel means as much to me as us in the SW getting our corner of ring-road. That is to say, not a hell of a lot.

I don't know exactly where you live, but for many people in the deep south that live close to the 22x, the quickest way to the Airport will likely be up Stoney Trail on the east side, and then West on Airport Trail to the airport, through the tunnel. This would especially be true when Deerfoot is backed up with traffic. The route will only be a km or 2 longer then Deerfoot, which would easily be made up for if there is any kind of backup on Deerfoot.

[Slava]

^ And that could be true. I generally fly out first thing in the morning, so Deerfoot isn't really an issue. Maybe once the ring road is up and running in the south this will be a viable option though.

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by You Need a Thneed

I don't know exactly where you live, but for many people in the deep south that live close to the 22x, the quickest way to the Airport will likely be up Stoney Trail on the east side, and then West on Airport Trail to the airport, through the tunnel. This would especially be true when Deerfoot is backed up with traffic. The route will only be a km or 2 longer then Deerfoot, which would easily be made up for if there is any kind of backup on Deerfoot.

Would taking Country Hills to Barlow instead add too much time to negate that as an option?

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

Would taking Country Hills to Barlow instead add too much time to negate that as an option?

In the future, yes, absolutely. CHB will eventually have about 7or 8 lights between Stoney and Barlow, and a 60km/h speed limit. Airport Trail will have 2 or 3 lights that will eventually be replaced with interchanges, and likely a speed limit of 80km/h or more.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

Would taking Country Hills to Barlow instead add too much time to negate that as an option?

I'm not sure if you're misinterpreting what you mean, but I guess it depends on what you mean by "too much." It would add time though to be sure.

Perhaps more importantly though, is it would add extra traffic to Country Hills Blvd. Traffic it currently can not handle. Money would need to be spent to upgrade it to handle the traffic the tunnel would otherwise handle. No small amount of money either.

[FurnaceFace]

I live in the West, and can take Deerfoot as easily as anything however depending on the time of my flight I would get off at McKnight or even sometimes take Barlow. Right now I have what I see as basically three pretty even options for routes. Deerfoot to Airport my average speed is faster, but it's longer so it all evens out. If the weather is crap, Barlow, while typically slower, sometimes ends up being faster and less risky.

As planned right now, with the Barlow closure I see no advantage in taking the new routes so I, and I daresay most of the southern part of the city, will be left with essentially a single route to take. Building the interchange now, makes a pile of sense to me as it will potentially give a different access route. What I'm especially interested in is the carrot he tosses out there of an LRT spur line to the airport. If I can hop on my shinny new West LRT line and head up to the end of the NE line, and have a max 10 min wait, I'm taking that route at least 90% of the time. Hell, I'd even happily pay an extra ticket as $10 for the two of us is less than the $40 a cab ride costs right now. Taking the Canada Line from the airport in Vancouver is an absolute dream and I wish we'd end up with something similar.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by frinkprof

The other road change currently being worked on in the area is the 36th Street connector. This will extend 48th Ave. eastward, then curve north, on the east side of the golf course and connect with 36th Street. This will open in the spring/summer as well. The map below roughly shows the alignment of this new road.

Apparently this road is now open. Guess I was mistaken with the spring/summer opening timeframe.

[The Yen Man]

I hope it's one of thoe Japan style tunnels that I see in racing games. That'd be pretty sweet. Even though I live in the NW and would probably not ever use this tunnel (since I use Country Hills to Barlow to get to the airport), I would definitely still drive it once in awhile just for the coolness factor.

[mykalberta]

Nenshi has a column in the Herald's Editorial section today about the Tunnel. Basically the same thing as is said on the website and in the video posted.

[alltherage]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Nenshi has a column in the Herald's Editorial section today about the Tunnel. Basically the same thing as is said on the website and in the video posted.

Link?

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by alltherage

Link?

Here you go. Must get built soon.
http://www.calgaryherald.com/opinion...550/story.html

[Table 5]

Pretty solid argument. I'll take 10!

[mykalberta]

Originally Posted by alltherage

Link?

Buy a newspaper?

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by fotze

I know I shouldn't but read the comments, nice little racist one at the bottom as per usual.

Also the links to Bob Hawkesworth's website, which has the document that Bob used to call the project a $500 million project. I just looked at the document, it clearly shows the estimate for the tunnel at under $220 million, and even when all of the other related work is added (that will go ahead eventually tunnel or no tunnel) it still doesn't add up to $500 million.

Of course, that doesn't stop the linked petition from calling the project a $823 million dollar project - including $323 million of debt servicing fees. Of course, it fails to take into account that a good percentage of the $480 million total cost of projects isn't needed right away, and almost certainly wouldn't be built until cash is in hand.

Also, the article about the tunnel yesterday seemed to infer that the city could in fact build separate underpasses for the runway and the taxiways, instead of one long one, which would save a significant amount of cost. Less materials used, perhaps could eliminate the need for a mechanical ventilation system, etc.

[puffnstuff]

Chalk me up as another from the South that hasn't been on the 'to be closed' portion of Barlow since Airport Trail opened. Just looking at the map though, not reading through the links and thread completely, how much actual driving time would this tunnel save? Is it 2 or 3 minutes, for just some trips? Think I read a journalist took the trip to the terminal three different ways and thats what it worked out to.

Can I ask why the 280 to 500 (I know its not that much) Million dollar price tag is worth that time?

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by puffnstuff

Chalk me up as another from the South that hasn't been on the 'to be closed' portion of Barlow since Airport Trail opened. Just looking at the map though, not reading through the links and thread completely, how much actual driving time would this tunnel save? Is it 2 or 3 minutes, for just some trips? Think I read a journalist took the trip to the terminal three different ways and thats what it worked out to.

Can I ask why the 280 to 500 (I know its not that much) Million dollar price tag is worth that time?

It's not so much about the 2, 3, or 7 minutes it will now take. It's about how long it will take when the city expands to 1.5 or 2 million people. It's like how on the NE-NW ring road it is currently 4 lanes; but all the bridges were built with 6-8 lane capacity.

And for anybody in the SE, and a lot of the SW, this will be the way you take to the airport as well. Keep in mind what you said; that you haven't taken Barlow since the current Airport trail opened- why is that? Current Airport trail only saves you the same 5 minutes; why not still take Barlow then?

It's because that 5 minute longer can often become 15-20 minutes longer if traffic is bad. Now there will be a few different ways into the airport. And once the city expands further NE; this will be the way to avoid the clusterfata the Country Hills Blvd could become.

One thing from the article that makes me respect Nenshi; he acknowledges that 99% of Calgarians voted for a mayor who supported the tunnel.

[puffnstuff]

You say I will take the tunnel? I want to avoid the 36th st, Mcknight tr, barlow tr, they are all fata'd up whenever I do travel in there. I want to take Deerfoot to Airport Tr, so I don't need to travel the tunnel. And isnt it less expensive to just bulk up some lanes on CH Blvd?

Personally IMO, Calgary does not have enough water to support 1.5 to 2 Million people, we can't get that big. But thats a whole other discussion.

[Bobblehead]

Everyone sees how often accidents happen along Deerfoot. Now imagine there is one or two when you need to get to the airport. There are ways around it, but none of them any good when traffic that would normally use Deerfoot is also trying to use those routes.

And what about all the businesses, primarily hotels, who have built along that section of Barlow. There is one still a new one being built at 48th & Barlow. Those were built and/or planned when there was a tunnel in the plan. Then they have the rug pulled out from under them. I can't see how it is good for anyone if long term plans like that are changed, especially the way this tunnel was initially dropped; behind closed doors and with no public notification.

And if you don't do it now, it will be like the Glenmore/Elbow interchange or the 16th Ave widening. It will be needed for decades, bring complaints about council short sighted-ness and and cost millions more than if you were to bite the bullet and build at least the shell for a tunnel now.