Pictures of Afghanistan as it once was

[HOZ]

Many assume that's all Afghanistan has ever been -- an ungovernable land where chaos is carved into the hills. Given the images people see on TV and the headlines written about Afghanistan over the past three decades of war, many conclude the country never made it out of the Middle Ages.



LINK

[jammies]

Interesting pictures and commentary; I wonder if there was much modernization outside of Kabul, though. It seems unlikely that widespread cultural change could be so utterly destroyed, so I suspect that in the countryside things were quite different than what we see here, pictures of hydroelectric projects notwithstanding.

[opendoor]

Not that surprising, really. The country's basically been in one state of war or another for the last 30+ years. It's not surprising that the infrastructure has suffered. Not to mention, much of that infrastructure was built by foreign powers as a means to curry favor and prevent (or help) the spread of Communism. Once that became less of an issue in the '90s, less and less money poured into the country. That, coupled with the foreign support of the mujahideen warlords (some of that came from the US) which eventually led to the ascension of the Taliban led to a pretty backwards period in Afghanistan.


That said, those pictures are basically '60s propaganda published by the government to show how modern the country was. Here are some other pictures from the same era, and I don't think things look all that different than how they do today:

http://www.pbase.com/qleap/afghan_1&page=all


Obviously some western influences have been stamped out, and it's really sad what's happened to the country; however, I don't buy the notion that it was some modern metropolis that has been destroyed. It's always been a very, very poor country and the problems due to regional and tribal differences as well as the divide between urban and rural areas have always existed.

What's truly sad isn't the fact that people don't dress like Westerners or buy modern furniture; but more how average people have been caught in the battle between competing, power hungry forces like the USSR/Russia, USA, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and the various warlord and tribal leaders within the country.

[HPLovecraft]

This should be re-titled to "Pictures of some areas of Kabul as it once was."

[burn_this_city]

90% of the photos look like they were taken in a university or college campus.

[octothorp]

Yeah, like it's neighbours Iran and Pakistan, Afghanistan has always been a country divided, between urban progressives and rural conservative (like, 1700s conservative). The country was at its most progressive under the Shahs, but the more 'democratic' it became, the more power it gave the the tribal lords. This is why I always doubted the western nation-building attempts in the region: the only governments that have every moved the region forward have been progressive authoritarian governments, like the Shahs, or even the Iranian presidents of the 1990s.

[Cowperson]

The literacy rate in Afghanistan in 1960 was about 11% and is about 36% today. The pictures paint a rosy scenario but ....

I'm pretty sure the Soviet backed regime was forcing equality of the sexes on the masses when in power. High heels, shorter skirts and lipstick were fairly common on the streets of Kabul in the early 1980's.

But the underlying predilection has always been to a more traditional society and women in particular have always had a literacy standard substantially underneath men.

This has always been a primitive, stunted place relative to the rest of the world although I like it the most popular television program in the country is Afghan Star, the rough equivalent of American Idol.

The common person general wants peace, security and ....... more, just like you and me

[T@T]

Just another ruined country because of religion, I bet the USA wishes now they didn't back Mr,Laden during their war with the Soviets.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by T@T

Just another ruined country because of religion, I bet the USA wishes now they didn't back Mr,Laden during their war with the Soviets.

Do you believe the Soviets devastated Afghanistan because of religion?

It's a ruined country because of power politics, just like most of the other "ruined" countries of the world.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

Do you believe the Soviets devastated Afghanistan because of religion?

No, no really, the Afgan government at the time was communist "Leninism" and obviously the Muslims didn't like that so much!

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

It's a ruined country because of power politics, just like most of the other "ruined" countries of the world.

I wonder what this country would look like today had the Muslim extremists not won the war backed by the USA. Communism or not, surely it had to be better than those ######ed Taliban!
And no 9-11 and closer to home no 160 Canadian soldiers killed?

It can be spun a million ways but the fact remains, religion is the route of most evil on this planet..especially in that part of the world.

[CaptainCrunch]

9/11 would have happened in one form or another with or without Afghanistan.

It was an inevitable incident.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

9/11 would have happened in one form or another with or without Afghanistan.

It was an inevitable incident.

And who/what would have been behind it?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by T@T

And who/what would have been behind it?

Same guy, probably drawn the same pilots from Arabia.

Osama Bin Laden was coming whether or not the Russians had won or lost in Afghanistan.

He probably still would have gone to Pakistan, and into Afghanistan to fight, however he might have been more dangerous if they had lost.

[Stumptown]

My grandfather was a foreign service officer (agricultural stuff) working in Iran in the late 50s and Afghanistan in the 60s. From what I've heard from my family (who all lived in both places) Afghanistan was always a bit behind Iran, but in the 60s it was somewhat progressive, at least in the cities. I don't have any of the pictures from Afghanistan processed yet, but I've been scanning the photos from their time in Iran, and was most surprised at the photos from Eisenhower's visit in '59. He's riding around in an open convertible, and there's a huge line of people on the tarmac to greet his plane (click below to see more, if you're interested). I can't even imagine that now. It amazes me how quickly things can revert. Zimbabwe is the same way, when I was there in the 80s it was a really pleasant, modern country. Not so much anymore.

[T@T]

^^^nice pics... happy times for those folks back then.

[Stumptown]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Same guy, probably drawn the same pilots from Arabia.

Osama Bin Laden was coming whether or not the Russians had won or lost in Afghanistan.

He probably still would have gone to Pakistan, and into Afghanistan to fight, however he might have been more dangerous if they had lost.

Maybe, but Bin Laden would be nobody if the CIA hadn't trained and funded him and like groups. It was the US's intervention that strengthened the fundamentalists to the point where they could exert a lot of influence no matter who "won" the war. Proxy wars have a tendency to bite you in the ass down the line.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Stumptown

Maybe, but Bin Laden would be nobody if the CIA hadn't trained and funded him and like groups. It was the US's intervention that strengthened the fundamentalists to the point where they could exert a lot of influence no matter who "won" the war. Proxy wars have a tendency to bite you in the ass down the line.

Except that the CIA didn't train or fund Bin Laden, the CIA trained and funded the Afghan Mujaheddin but had nothing to do with the foreign fighters as they didn't want or need American funding or weapons because it would depurify their cause.

so your argument is flawed at that point. Read Peter Bergen's interviews with Bin Laden he was very emphatic that he didn't want, need or accept CIA or American help, plus he had enough money coming in from Middle Eastern Countries to support his movement. Bin Laden hated the American's and saw them as primary enemies of Islam long before the Soviet Invasion.

Further to that the Afghan fighters didn't work with or collaborate with the foreign fighters because they felt that the task of liberation from the Soviets was their own business.

CIA funding went directly to Afghan groups, as did the weapons and training, not to the foreign groups based out of Pakistan which was what Bin Laden was part of.

Also read the unabridged History of the CIA, and the looming tower by Lawrence Wright, the CIA didn't even start a file on Bin Laden until just before he moved to the Sudan.

[Stumptown]

Originally Posted by opendoor

Here are some other pictures from the same era, and I don't think things look all that different than how they do today:

http://www.pbase.com/qleap/afghan_1&page=all

Hey, I think that's my dad in that photo of the American International School! Probably not, but my aunt would have been attending the school at the time that photo was taken, though. It's a small internet.