Why were the Japanese so cruel in WW2?

[algernon]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

What do you mean were? I hate the Japanese, they kill everything they can and ignore the laws set down to protect endangered species.

This sort of sentiment is why people dismiss animal activists as COMPLETELY INSANE.

Hating an entire nation of people because some fishermen are asswipes? LOL.

I hate all Eastern Canadian former bar-owning, former-vegetarian reptile-breeding Chicken-devourers. They are hypocrites, and ignore the simple truth that Chickens are people too!!!

[Bigtime]

Originally Posted by theonlywhiteout

You'd like consider them war criminals. And before you lose your mind and get mad at me Robert McNamara and Curtis LeMay (2 of the highest ranking officers involved in the bombing of Japan during ww2) considered themselves to be acting like war criminals with the fire bombings of Japan, nevermind the Atomic bombs.

Did LeMay ever say such a thing? I know that McNamara did (in that excellent documentary on him). I always thought LeMay was the crazy "bomb everything" kind of guy, in fact he was the inspiration for Brigadier General Jack Ripper in Dr. Strangelove.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

If the Japanese had decided not to exercise their imperial ambitions there would have been no need for an oil embargo in 1941.

I'm going to play devils advocate here. Didn't the Americans themselves help foster that sense of imperial ambition in the Japanese many years before? Teddy Roosevelt pretty much served them up Korea on a silver platter, in addition to motivating them to become more like the white western civilizations that were thought to be superior to all others.

[theonlywhiteout]

Originally Posted by Bigtime

Did LeMay ever say such a thing? I know that McNamara did (in that excellent documentary on him). I always thought LeMay was the crazy "bomb everything" kind of guy, in fact he was the inspiration for Brigadier General Jack Ripper in Dr. Strangelove.



I'm going to play devils advocate here. Didn't the Americans themselves help foster that sense of imperial ambition in the Japanese many years before? Teddy Roosevelt pretty much served them up Korea on a silver platter, in addition to motivating them to become more like the white western civilizations that were thought to be superior to all others.

In that doc McNamara said that lemay told him once if they had lost the war they would have been prosecuted as war crimInals. McNamara then said he agreed and admitted they were acting as such. It really is an amazing documentary

[Bigtime]

Thanks for clearing that up, I couldn't remember what was exactly said. It was a HELL of a documentary. I should really buy it and get it in my collection.

For reading about Teddy Roosevelt fostering imperialistic ambitions in the Japanese you should also check out the short read "The Imperial Cruise" http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/19/books/19book.html

http://www.amazon.com/Imperial-Cruis.../dp/0316008958

I know it is just one authors take, but it does add a view of a different side of Teddy that many probably had no idea existed. The authors father was one of the marines that planted the flag on Iwo Jima (he wrote Flags of Our Fathers), this book is his way of questioning why his father ever had to do that.

[theonlywhiteout]

I wish they made it in HD

It's really stunning to see someone of his stature share his life story and inner most thoughts on almost everything (he didnt go into much detail about Vietnam that the director was looking for). To admit you acted like a war criminal and show remorse like that is simply amazing to watch.

[GirlySports]

China and Japan are fighting over the Senkaku Islands so they still hate each other.
Anytime Japan comes to China for anything, sport, convention, academics they get attacked.

I don't think the Japanese were extraordinarily cruel. Look at places like Cambodia, Africa, former Yugoslavia and the genocide that existed in those place.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

China and Japan are fighting over the Senkaku Islands so they still hate each other.
Anytime Japan comes to China for anything, sport, convention, academics they get attacked.

I don't think the Japanese were extraordinarily cruel. Look at places like Cambodia, Africa, former Yugoslavia and the genocide that existed in those place.

The Japanese were on the same level as the Nazi's if not a bit worse.

Rape of Nanking, 200,000 men machine gunned, used for bayonet practice, or burned a live, 20000 woman raped and mutilated

Korean comfort woman, forced into being sex slaves

Malaya 200 wounded Aussies were executed

Singapore - After the Japanese won, they entered the hospital and executed 300 patient and staff, British woman were bound and raped, 5000 Chinese civilians were executed.

Wake Island - 1200 Idaho youths were enslaved after the Island fell, 5 were beheaded to encourage good behavior on the trip to the prison camps.

Dutch East Indies - 20,000 men were forced into the ocean and machine gunned, woman were raped

Dutch Borneo - Anyone that was white was executed

Java - Anyone white was executed woman were raped

Philippines - 7000 captured soldiers were executed or died during the march, upon reaching the camp, 400 Americans and fillipinos died per day

Doolittle raid - 25000 chinese villages died due to atrocities when pilots escaped through their villages.

Attu - When medical stations were over run, they executed the doctors and bayoneted the wounded.

Indian Ocean - Submarine Captains rescued and then brutally executed over 200 un armed merchant men

Lets not forget unit 731, that not only performed medical experiments on civilians including dissections when they were alive, but this unit also practiced chemical and biological warfare on cities.

The Japanese were far more brutal then the NVA and Vietcong, and the numbers back that up. They fought a dispicable war, and the world should have rejoiced when the war ended.

The Chinese come across their hatred of the Chinese naturally.

[sergei_makarov]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

China and Japan are fighting over the Senkaku Islands so they still hate each other.
Anytime Japan comes to China for anything, sport, convention, academics they get attacked.

I don't think the Japanese were extraordinarily cruel. Look at places like Cambodia, Africa, former Yugoslavia and the genocide that existed in those place.

"Extraordinarily cruel" is a tough enough thing to qualify, but the Japanese did some pretty sick stuff in Nanking that certainly falls into the cruel and likely extraordinarily cruel categories.

Do you think holding children by their bayonets in vats of boiling water is extraordinarily cruel?

Or, how about performing vivisections on Chinese POWs without administering anesthesia?

[theonlywhiteout]

The Japanese were worse than the Nazi's? Or even on the same level? Care to revise that? I mean I know you're in a debate about how bad Japan was during WW2 and I can get you want to make a point... but give me a break. Millions killed in horrific ways in death camps, and you want to put Japan against that? I'd listen to USSR and Stalin vs Hitler/Nazi Germany but Japan? Ay Caramba.

[CaptainCrunch]

Japanese actions were on an equivalent level, if not far crueler, the Germans have the advantage in numbers, but the conduct of both countries were extra ordinarily cruel.

The only difference was the concentration camps.

The German's didn't engage in cannibalism, their treatment of enemy Western Ally troops was nowhere near as cruel as how the Japanese treated their captives, please note that I left out the Japanese treatment of surrendered troops from my listing, because the Standard reply would be that they were surrendered under arms.

The German's were monsters, the Japanese were monsters, and the world is a better place when both countries were defeated.

[theonlywhiteout]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The only difference was the concentration camps.

Excuse me for saying but that's a pretty big god damn difference

[Smelly Fred]

May I just comment that this has been an excellent debate. Many good and valid points have been raised on various points of view. Good thought provoking answers.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Japanese actions were on an equivalent level, if not far crueler, the Germans have the advantage in numbers, but the conduct of both countries were extra ordinarily cruel.

The only difference was the concentration camps.

Who would be considered worst if the germans didn't do it behind fences?
Watching old films of the death squads(before the camps) marching 100's of naked Jewish women and children in the snow and shooting them like gophers still makes me sick.

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The German's didn't engage in cannibalism, their treatment of enemy Western Ally troops was nowhere near as cruel as how the Japanese treated their captives, please note that I left out the Japanese treatment of surrendered troops from my listing, because the Standard reply would be that they were surrendered under arms.

No they just made lampshades out of human skin!

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The German's were monsters, the Japanese were monsters, and the world is a better place when both countries were defeated.

You could add the Russians in there as well, they weren't exactly nice themselves.

[sa226]

I don't mean to add fuel to the fire or anything,

but weren't a majority of the German soldiers unaware of the concentration camps? Did the average German citizen know about what their beloved fuhrer was up to? I don't know the answer I just think the accusations of brutality is relative.

Heck, the now famous Easy company, took on the persona of Iroquois Indians and shaved their heads into mohawks and some even skinned the heads of the Germans. Of course that part is cleverly left out of "Band of Brothers"

No country, Allied or Axis was above brutality.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by T@T

Who would be considered worst if the germans didn't do it behind fences?
Watching old films of the death squads(before the camps) marching 100's of naked Jewish women and children in the snow and shooting them like gophers still makes me sick.

Of course it was sick, I'm not trying to make the germans out to be different, both regimes were evil, both militaries dispicable

No they just made lampshades out of human skin!

but there is a key difference here, the most inhumane of atrocities that the German's committed were by the SS units, in the Japanese Military it was the General Military as a whole, and seemed to be a general policy.

You could add the Russians in there as well, they weren't exactly nice themselves.

I didn't know that we were talking about the Russians in this debate, but you are right, the Russians themselves were completely brutal, especially with captured officers and members of the SS.

[Nage Waza]

I forget what show I saw, but a Japanese man being interviewed said that his whole town committed suicide when they were told the Americans were going to take them over. They had all been told the Americans were going to be inhumanly cruel to them, including torture and cannibalism (the Americans were the devil to them). I don't remember the specifics, but he remembers being a kid and hiding while his whole family killed themselves (and everyone else). He was afraid to die, and he eventually was found by an American soldier who gave him water and food. I think the show went into details how the Japanese thought of their leader like he himself was a god. Who knows if millions would have killed themselves, but if any country would have, it would of been the Japanese.

[PurposeDriven]

Originally Posted by puckluck

Bull crap.

It's one thing for the parents to tell the kids something, but it's another thing for the kids and adults to actually go ahead and commit suicide when the time comes.

I hope you don't actually believe 10-15 million people were going to commit suicide. That's insane.

I guess anything to defend America though.

Seems we have an Asain who grew up in Japan in the 20's and 30's amongst us.

Almost 100 years ago dude. Unless you have dedicated your life to studying asian culture I dont think you could possibly have any grasp on what it was like. You probably can't fully grasp what life for canadians or americans was like that long ago, much less a culture completely dissimilar from your own.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

I forget what show I saw, but a Japanese man being interviewed said that his whole town committed suicide when they were told the Americans were going to take them over. They had all been told the Americans were going to be inhumanly cruel to them, including torture and cannibalism (the Americans were the devil to them). I don't remember the specifics, but he remembers being a kid and hiding while his whole family killed themselves (and everyone else). He was afraid to die, and he eventually was found by an American soldier who gave him water and food. I think the show went into details how the Japanese thought of their leader like he himself was a god. Who knows if millions would have killed themselves, but if any country would have, it would of been the Japanese.

I think that was an out-take from The Pacific...seems to ring a bell anyway.

As much as puckluck wants to fight the issue after watching women with babies in their arms jumping off cliffs instead of even talking to the Americans tells me they were seriously brainwashed. I have no doubt they would have committed suicide by the millions.

And if anyone thinks that dropping fatman and littleboy didn't save a huge amount of lives needs their heads examined.

[puckluck]

Originally Posted by PurposeDriven

Seems we have an Asain who grew up in Japan in the 20's and 30's amongst us.

Almost 100 years ago dude. Unless you have dedicated your life to studying asian culture I dont think you could possibly have any grasp on what it was like. You probably can't fully grasp what life for canadians or americans was like that long ago, much less a culture completely dissimilar from your own.

Yeah, you're right. I guess anyone who hasn't grown up in Japan 100 years ago should just shut up. We should just close this thread untill someone who is Japanese and 90-100 years old joins us.

[T@T]

I somehow missed these so I'll respond now.

Originally Posted by puckluck

I find it hilarious how anyone can say the A-bombs saved lives. People are still living with the consequences from those bombs till this day.

In the end after the radiation deaths it was about 400,000. I hope you seriously don't think that's a high number? Had the American continued the nightly fire bombing and then invaded Japan that number would have been millions, and that's without the apparent suicides that would have happened.

Originally Posted by puckluck

Look what up? 10-15 million people never committed suicide.

Umm...Japan wasn't invaded

Originally Posted by puckluck

Yeah, after the Japanese government lied to there people and claimed the Americans were going to torture them. I'd commit suicide too.

I'm not denying the fact that some would commit suicide, but in the millions? not a chance.

If your Japanese I seriously think you should study your old roots and history, thousands of civilians and soldiers killed themselves on little islands rather than be taken by the Americans, obviously nothing can be proven but going by the numbers it certainly suggests that millions would have committed suicide.