Public schools with "Christ-centered Learning Environment" - here in Alberta

[firebug]

Welcome to Morinville.

A brave family speaks out on the lack of a secular instructional environment at their local public school.

The Greater St. Albert Catholic Regional Division, which also has schools in St. Albert and Legal, operates all four of the schools in Morinville — two elementary, one junior high and one high school — with a “Christ-centred learning” environment.

Hunter and a few other parents have met with school board officials to request a non-religious education be available for their children, but say they have not found the responses encouraging.

[alltherage]

Interesting. Looks like they need some change. I doubt the resistence has anything to do with trying to push the Catholic agenda though. It probably has more to do with not having the other stuff available as it hadn't been in demand yet?

Who knows?

[Slava]

Anyone who thinks that there is no religion in public schools is someone who hasn't been to a school Christmas assembly. Once upon a time I thought that the public schools were away from this. I suppose I bought the line that they didn't even say "Merry Christmas" anymore because it was deemed as too denominational. That is the furthest thing from the truth though!

I'm not going to wade into the idea of whether this is right or wrong. I was just shocked to see how fast my daughter came home and told me all about god and such after just a short time at public school.

[firebug]

Originally Posted by Slava

Anyone who thinks that there is no religion in public schools is someone who hasn't been to a school Christmas assembly. Once upon a time I thought that the public schools were away from this. I suppose I bought the line that they didn't even say "Merry Christmas" anymore because it was deemed as too denominational. That is the furthest thing from the truth though!

I'm not going to wade into the idea of whether this is right or wrong. I was just shocked to see how fast my daughter came home and told me all about god and such after just a short time at public school.

Interesting, I recently attended my son's 'Winter Holiday' performance and there was no religious overtones that I could discern. In fact, it was themed about the '4-seasons' (complete with Vivaldi soundtrack).

The 1st graders, including my son, were 'winter'. They sang 'Jingle Bells' and 'Old Toy Trains'. They also went through the alphabet listing winter things. 'C' included Christmas and 'H' included Hanukkah, but 'J' didn't include Jesus, 'C' didn't include Christ and 'G' didn't include god.

The 3rd graders were 'summer' and they sang campfire songs and told ghost stories.

Maybe your kids different experience reflects attitudes of the administrators?

[Flabbibulin]

Originally Posted by firebug

Interesting, I recently attended my son's 'Winter Holiday' performance and there was no religious overtones that I could discern. In fact, it was themed about the '4-seasons' (complete with Vivaldi soundtrack).

The 1st graders, including my son, were 'winter'. They sang 'Jingle Bells' and 'Old Toy Trains'. They also went through the alphabet listing winter things. 'C' included Christmas and 'H' included Hanukkah, but 'J' didn't include Jesus, 'C' didn't include Christ and 'G' didn't include god.

The 3rd graders were 'summer' and they sang campfire songs and told ghost stories.

Maybe your kids different experience reflects attitudes of the administrators?

I have no intention of forcing my kids to attend Church or believe in any particular doctrine, but I would strongly consider sending them to a private school as a protest to the politically correct BS that has enveloped the public school system. "Winter Holiday" my ass.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by firebug

Welcome to Morinville.

A brave family speaks out on the lack of a secular instructional environment at their local public school.




[/COLOR][/LEFT]

This is only an issue because there is no public school available I'm guessing. It used to drive me nuts when kids at my catholic high s chool would "refuse" to go to church during advent because they didn't believe in christianity. They were often told that there were plenty of other public schools available (Beave, Scarlett, Wisewood) within a 2km radium they could attend.

That being said, if they received a note from their parents they could stay back for study period.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by alltherage

Interesting. Looks like they need some change. I doubt the resistence has anything to do with trying to push the Catholic agenda though. It probably has more to do with not having the other stuff available as it hadn't been in demand yet?

Who knows?

Having gone to Catholic school myself, I'm not really sure what you mean by "having other stuff available".

Really the only difference I could tell was that we had to take religion class. It's not like the science teachers were talking about Jesus, or Adam and Eve (this isn't Kansas).

Seems to me the simple solution is for the kids to be able to opt out of that class.

[John Doe]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

This is only an issue because there is no public school available I'm guessing. It used to drive me nuts when kids at my catholic high s chool would "refuse" to go to church during advent because they didn't believe in christianity. They were often told that there were plenty of other public schools available (Beave, Scarlett, Wisewood) within a 2km radium they could attend.

That being said, if they received a note from their parents they could stay back for study period.

The St. Albert system is different from the norm. I don't know a lot about their system, but I have been told by people who lived there that the Catholic schools are the "public schools" and the Protestant schools are the "separate schools" (if they still use that terminology).

Edit: I just did some goggling and discovered that what I wrote above was correct. An interesting note is that the Public school system has less students (about 6200) than the Protestant schools (about 6600). I don't know what the ramifications are of going to the "separate schools" rather than the "public schools" (different fees perhaps?), but obviously there must be some for the parents to have a problem with the set-up.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

I have no intention of forcing my kids to attend Church or believe in any particular doctrine, but I would strongly consider sending them to a private school as a protest to the politically correct BS that has enveloped the public school system. "Winter Holiday" my ass.

This drove me crazy as a kid and still does today.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Having gone to Catholic school myself, I'm not really sure what you mean by "having other stuff available".

Really the only difference I could tell was that we had to take religion class. It's not like the science teachers were talking about Jesus, or Adam and Eve (this isn't Kansas).

Seems to me the simple solution is for the kids to be able to opt out of that class.

Ideally that'd be the solution, but if these particular schools are more towards science teachers talking about Adam and Eve (and that's what the parents seem to be saying), then it is a bit of an issue. If they are bringing religion into every class, then I can appreciate the protests.

[Orange]

Originally Posted by photon

Ideally that'd be the solution, but if these particular schools are more towards science teachers talking about Adam and Eve (and that's what the parents seem to be saying), then it is a bit of an issue. If they are bringing religion into every class, then I can appreciate the protests.

I'd say it's far more likely that the parent is getting upset over 'minor' things like an Our Father to start the day, a couple school assemblies mimicking church, praying for someone in a bad situation and then when the kids get in fights or act up the teacher may bring up Jesus' "Love one another" quote which every major religion has a variant of (for a reason). There may be a couple of times a student asks a question that brings up religion, especially Genesis and Adam and Eve during science class, but I highly doubt that anywhere in the science curriculum is there any relgious overtones especially since the Catholic church believes in evolution and doesn't take the Book of Genesis literal.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by photon

Ideally that'd be the solution, but if these particular schools are more towards science teachers talking about Adam and Eve (and that's what the parents seem to be saying), then it is a bit of an issue. If they are bringing religion into every class, then I can appreciate the protests.

Originally Posted by Orange

I'd say it's far more likely that the parent is getting upset over 'minor' things like an Our Father to start the day, a couple school assemblies mimicking church, praying for someone in a bad situation and then when the kids get in fights or act up the teacher may bring up Jesus' "Love one another" quote which every major religion has a variant of (for a reason). There may be a couple of times a student asks a question that brings up religion, especially Genesis and Adam and Eve during science class, but I highly doubt that anywhere in the science curriculum is there any relgious overtones especially since the Catholic church believes in evolution and doesn't take the Book of Genesis literal.

In response to Photon, I was going to say pretty much the same thing as Orange.

Afterall, whether a Catholic board is running it or not, the schools have to abide by the provincial carriculum, and that doesn't include talking about Adam and Eve in Biology.

Honestly, after reading the article, I can't help but think this is a parent over reacting and exagerating just a little bit (of course they would be the first parent in the history of the world to do so). They say that when the kids aren't in religion class, that's the only time they aren't discussing it, and that they are "Exposed to it" all day. Sure, maybe in kindergarten, it's a little more bible heavy, as let's face it, it's more of a socializing thing, they aren't exactly talking about evolution or math. So yeah, when they're singing songs, or reading stories, Jesus probably sneaks in every so often. And really, even to the angry persecuted athiest, what difference does it make if the kids are reading about cinderella or Jesus, as most of them are so happy to point out, they're both fairytales. When it comes to lessons about sharing, and not being a jerk, what does it matter who the protagonist in the story is?

However, I'd be willing to bet that the grades after that, where most rational people, myself included, would get upset if Jesus was brought up in science class, follow the same legally mandated carriculum as every other school in the province.

[Orange]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

In response to Photon, I was going to say pretty much the same thing as Orange.

Afterall, whether a Catholic board is running it or not, the schools have to abide by the provincial carriculum, and that doesn't include talking about Adam and Eve in Biology.

When I thought it over a bit, there's also probably a pretty good chance they're learning O Holy Night for their Christmas pageant in music class while making those "stained glass" Stations of the Cross for their Easter mass in art. I don't see it as a big deal, but there's also that for those who want it to be secular.

But for the core courses I doubt a person would be able to pick out the difference between Catholic and public ones.

[bcb]

Originally Posted by photon

Ideally that'd be the solution, but if these particular schools are more towards science teachers talking about Adam and Eve (and that's what the parents seem to be saying), then it is a bit of an issue. If they are bringing religion into every class, then I can appreciate the protests.

Science Teachers? What science teachers?. The kid in question was in Kindergarten.

But no, these kids (when they hit high school) have to write the same diploma exams as everyone else, so no creationism.

I did some student teaching in a Catholic high school, and noticed that by the time the kids got to high school, the whole religion aspect was pretty much a joke and that the kids themselves could be more rebellious than their public equivalents.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by Orange

When I thought it over a bit, there's also probably a pretty good chance they're learning O Holy Night for their Christmas pageant in music class while making those "stained glass" Stations of the Cross for their Easter mass in art. I don't see it as a big deal, but there's also that for those who want it to be secular.

But for the core courses I doubt a person would be able to pick out the difference between Catholic and public ones.

Yeah, that's probalby the case, especially since the kid is in kindergarten.

But like I said, in the classes that matter, like math, science, social, english, ets., you know, the classes that matter after kindergarten, it's the same carriculum as any other school.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Orange

I'd say it's far more likely that the parent is getting upset over 'minor' things

Far more likely based on what, exactly?

And what's likely isn't really relevant, what's actually happening is. The devil is in the details.

Originally Posted by Orange

like an Our Father to start the day, a couple school assemblies mimicking church, praying for someone in a bad situation and then when the kids get in fights or act up the teacher may bring up Jesus' "Love one another" quote which every major religion has a variant of (for a reason). There may be a couple of times a student asks a question that brings up religion, especially Genesis and Adam and Eve during science class, but I highly doubt that anywhere in the science curriculum is there any relgious overtones especially since the Catholic church believes in evolution and doesn't take the Book of Genesis literal.

It's that pervasiveness of religion that's probably the issue, not teaching creationism in science (we can drop the whole adam/eve/science thread of discussion, I completely agree that any catholic schools that teach against evolution in science will be completely against the norm).

Again the devil is in the details, but being brought up religious myself I can say there are very basic patterns of thinking and learning which I think may be encouraged in a religious setting that I think are disadvantageous to a person. If this school promotes those patterns (and it may, again details are necessary), then I still agree with their point.

Originally Posted by bcb

Science Teachers? What science teachers?. The kid in question was in Kindergarten.

There are more parents and schools from k-12. As I said no need to focus on science or creationism as that's likely not the issue here since catholic schools don't teach it.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by photon

Far more likely based on what, exactly?

And what's likely isn't really relevant, what's actually happening is. The devil is in the details.



It's that pervasiveness of religion that's probably the issue, not teaching creationism in science (we can drop the whole adam/eve/science thread of discussion, I completely agree that any catholic schools that teach against evolution in science will be completely against the norm).

Again the devil is in the details, but being brought up religious myself I can say there are very basic patterns of thinking and learning which I think may be encouraged in a religious setting that I think are disadvantageous to a person. If this school promotes those patterns (and it may, again details are necessary), then I still agree with their point.



There are more parents and schools from k-12. As I said no need to focus on science or creationism as that's likely not the issue here since catholic schools don't teach it.

What patterns of thinking and how would they be disadvantageous compared to an entirely secular upbringing?

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by photon

Again the devil is in the details, but being brought up religious myself I can say there are very basic patterns of thinking and learning which I think may be encouraged in a religious setting that I think are disadvantageous to a person. If this school promotes those patterns (and it may, again details are necessary), then I still agree with their point.

I'm not calling you out or anything, but I'm pretty curious what exactly you mean by this.

[puckluck]

So you take your kids to a Christmas ("winter holiday") party at school, but have a problem with religion in school?

Am I missing something here?

[Orange]

Originally Posted by photon

Far more likely based on what, exactly?

And what's likely isn't really relevant, what's actually happening is. The devil is in the details.

I'm missing the question here because you admit that they aren't bringing up Adam and Eve in science class which is what I was saying is likely not happening.

I'm not saying for someone who wants a secular school there isn't a problem with having some of the stuff I mentioned I'm just saying there's a huge difference between learning about Adam and Eve in science class than there is saying "God bless you" if someone sneezes.

I wonder if changing this public school with "Christ-centered learning Environment" into a simple Catholic school would be a plausible solution if the amount of Catholic's in the town/school was high enough I think it would be the easiest one.