Recommend a Chiropractor

[Clutch]

Originally Posted by amorak

Chiro's are not doctors, they are hacks.
Case closed!

You're so scientific with your arguments Mr. Amorak.

I think you should be in charge of AHC.

Do you eat a lot of cookies?

[Drury18]

Originally Posted by Clutch

I'd rather have the guy who can order x-rays and is licensed to diagnosis treat me, my chiropractor. Last I heard, no physio can do either. True or false?

True - They cannot order X-Rays. They can make calls to General Practioners to have these X-Rays ordered so moot point. I don't think ordering X-Rays is really something to gloat about.

I'm sorry, in Ontario Physiotherapists can order X-Rays. And lab tests as well as administer oxygen. http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/..._20090511.html
http://www.collegept.org/Announcemen....aspx?ID=18976

False - They can and do make diagnosis. They are primary health care providers so they are able to make diagnosis recognized by other primary health care providers (i.e. General Practictioners). When something is outside of the range they feel they are comfortable in making a diagnosis or would prefer to have a second opinion, referrals are made. They don't go around playing doctor when they shouldn't.

As per the Canadian Physiotherapy Association: As primary health care professionals, physiotherapists combine in-depth knowledge of how the body works with specialized hands-on clinical skills to assess, diagnose and treat symptoms of illness, injury or disability .

[TheSutterDynasty]

Originally Posted by Clutch

I'd rather have the guy who can order x-rays and is licensed to diagnose treat me, my chiropractor. Last I heard, no physio can do either. True or false?

This information isn't right. Canada used to have a 4 year bachelors degree for physiotherapy, but it is now a 26 month Masters program (on top of your 4 year bachelors with a bunch of pre reqs). They are also attempting to make it a doctorate now.

Chiropractors (in Canada) require a 4 year bachelors degree and then it's a 4 year program that's structured like a bachelors.

They essentially have the same amount of schooling because the physio Masters is basically zero breaks, all year round, with clinical placements. You also need like a year+ schooling extra for acupuncture. Chiropractors have the same amount of schooling, just spread out for breaks over 4 years (if I'm not mistaken).

It doesn't matter how much schooling they have, the practice is fundamentally flawed.

[Clutch]

People who ride in ambulances end up in intensive care afterwards. Therefore, it is recommended people avoid ambulance rides.

As logical as your discredited research below.

Hope you get into your PhD program and learn biomechanics.

If you think chiropractors take a joint past normal anatomical range, I feel really really scared for your patients, assuming you actually treat the public. Wow. That is just ignorant.




International Journal of Clinical Practice

Volume 64, Issue 8, pages 1162–1165, July 2010

Summary

Objective:  The aim of this study was to summarise all cases in which chiropractic spinal manipulation was followed by death.


Design:  This study is a systematic review of case reports.


Methods:  Literature searches in four electronic databases with no restrictions of time or language.


Main outcome measure:  Death.


Results:  Twenty six fatalities were published in the medical literature and many more might have remained unpublished. The alleged pathology usually was a vascular accident involving the dissection of a vertebral artery.


Conclusion:  Numerous deaths have occurred after chiropractic manipulations. The risks of this treatment by far outweigh its benefit


I'd like to see your degree first because quite frankly this has turned into a who can quote the better website arguement with very little being said to explain why the practices of a chiropractor are better then the rest (aside from your absolutely adorable comparison between a personal trainer and physiotherapist). I'd love to hear how Chiropractor feels that pushing a body past it natural range of motion is more helpful then harmful to an injury. And why they use techniques of force, rather then natural movement in order to produce a quicker result. Basic kinesiology tells us that the body is only meant to move within a range and any movements outside of this range create the injury. If the person has already done this and coming to you to seek treatment why is the treatment more movement beyond this range? When did two wrongs make a right?[/QUOTE]

[Clutch]

How are you going to diagnosis an ABC aneurysmal bone cyst in the knee if you can't x-ray?

Are you going to use an ultrasound machine? LOL

I guess they just don't let anyone order xrays.



QUOTE=Drury18;2854462]True - They cannot order X-Rays. They can make calls to General Practioners to have these X-Rays ordered so moot point. I don't think ordering X-Rays is really something to gloat about.

I'm sorry, in Ontario Physiotherapists can order X-Rays. http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/..._20090511.html

False - They can and do make diagnosis. They are primary health care providers so they are able to make diagnosis recognized by other primary health care providers (i.e. General Practictioners). When something is outside of the range they feel they are comfortable in making a diagnosis or would prefer to have a second opinion, referrals are made. They don't go around playing doctor when they shouldn't.

As per the Canadian Physiotherapy Association: As primary health care professionals, physiotherapists combine in-depth knowledge of how the body works with specialized hands-on clinical skills to assess, diagnose and treat symptoms of illness, injury or disability .[/QUOTE]

[Drury18]

Originally Posted by Clutch

If you think chiropractors take a joint past normal anatomical range, I feel really really scared for your patients, assuming you actually treat the public. Wow. That is just ignorant.

Then please, explain what you do during an adjustment. What points do you take the neck during a normal manipulation without the presence of pain or stiffness? What is the ideal range of motion you are looking to obtain after one treatment? How do you prevent over extension? With someone presenting stiffness, what is the process of determining what is the safe range of motion?

[Drury18]

Originally Posted by Clutch

How are you going to diagnosis an ABC aneurysmal bone cyst in the knee if you can't x-ray?

Are you going to use an ultrasound machine? LOL

I guess they just don't let anyone order xrays.

No, but they could use that ultrasound machine to see when someone possibly has a blockage that might cause a stroke should someone decide to snap their neck around.

And you missed the part where Ontario Physiotherapists do have the ability to order X-Rays and Lab Tests. As with most things, once Ontario does it the rest of Canada will fall into place.

[Clutch]

Just take one of the courses offered by your local chiropractor. I hear they teach physio's everything they know about manipulation....but not everything they know.

Patients continually say they wish to use a "team" of healthcare providers who are interested in working together for the benefit of the patient.

So with that, I will wish all a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

My New Year's wish;

May Albertans get the right care from the right practitioner in the most timely fashion possible!

Originally Posted by Drury18

Then please, explain what you do during an adjustment. What points do you take the neck during a normal manipulation without the presence of pain or stiffness? What is the ideal range of motion you are looking to obtain after one treatment? How do you prevent over extension? With someone presenting stiffness, what is the process of determining what is the safe range of motion?

[Kybosh]

Clutch, why do you keep asking people what they do for a living? That information has no bearing on an internet argument.

[Drury18]

Originally Posted by Clutch

Just take one of the courses offered by your local chiropractor. I hear they teach physio's everything they know about manipulation....but not everything they know.

So basically, you aren't a chiropractor and have been quoting websites and talking out of your behind because you can't actually answer any of the questions I asked?

[GGG]

I like chiro's. I don't really care if they are scientifically proven or not. I get relief from going for 2 or 3 visits a few times a year.

The cause of my back pain is clearly poor posture at work and while watching TV. Now I work on fixing these things but over time my back stiffins and I need to go back. It is a fast cost effective (as it is covered by a work plan) way to make me feel better. Placebo or real effect I am happy with the results and I am inofrmed of the risk.

[TheSutterDynasty]

Originally Posted by GGG

I like chiro's. I don't really care if they are scientifically proven or not. I get relief from going for 2 or 3 visits a few times a year.

The cause of my back pain is clearly poor posture at work and while watching TV. Now I work on fixing these things but over time my back stiffins and I need to go back. It is a fast cost effective (as it is covered by a work plan) way to make me feel better. Placebo or real effect I am happy with the results and I am inofrmed of the risk.

Have you thought about the long term consequences and results?

[NBC]

Again I'd tell the OP that if they are interested in finding a new chiropractic practitioner, find one that uses other modalities, such as ART. Chances are that your back, neck, shoulder (or whatever) problems are musculature and not skeletal. The manipulation of soft tissues in the problem areas might be what you are looking for. Either that or find a really good massage therapist. One of the best health care practitioners I've ever been to is a RMT. He's got a sport science degree, physical therapy degree and is a licensed RMT. Top notch guy.

Whatever you choose, best of luck.

[troutman]

"Patient Satisfaction" or "Popularity" of a treatment is not very helpful in determining if it is effective. Astrology is popular. Clients of psychics are satisfied. CAM treatments "work" largely because of the Placebo Effect.

If Chiros are ethical and care about the health of their patients, why do so many offer other bunk services or share space with practitioners of accupuncture, homeopathy, reflexology etc?

[amorak]

Originally Posted by troutman

"Patient Satisfaction" or "Popularity" of a treatment is not very helpful in determining if it is effective. Astrology is popular. Clients of psychics are satisfied. CAM treatments "work" largely because of the Placebo Effect.

If Chiros are ethical and care about the health of their patients, why do so many offer other bunk services or share space with practitioners of accupuncture, homeopathy, reflexology etc?

Trout for President?

[Drury18]

I'd still like to find out the answers to my questions. He sure got the hell out of here quickly when asked about how they do what they do.

[FlaminFeva]

I really have suffered some back pain in my life and the only thing (temporary or not) that enabled me to walk and function with any semblance of normality was a chiropractor followed by massage. I went to a physio therapist and honestly aside from showing me stretches I thought my money was completely wasted. I went 5 times throughout the week at 90/session and felt no better over the course of the week. I then decided to go the chiropractic and massage route and had 2 sessions of each over the same time and felt completely rejuvinated. Honestly I think Physio therapists are the biggest scam going and don't really give two poops what you other nay sayers think, I'm gonna go with what actually works for me.

[Knut]

^ Physiotherapy is not going to get results after a week. It is there to not just provide relief, but to improve things long term. They are helping you to build up muscle mass and flexibility in certain areas to help with long-term relief of pain.

[peter12]

While I come down firmly against chiropractry, in regards to other quack remedies... if the placebo effect is just as significant as the medical effect, what does that say about a lot of modern medicine?

[The Yen Man]

I personally wouldn't waste my money on chiro. IMO, they make you build a reliance to them, and then they're set having you as a customer for life. As people stated, if I have a problem, I'd much rather see a physiotherapist and correct the actual problem itself, rather than let some hack crack my back and relieve the pain temporarily only to have them milk me for life with continual visits.

And I think it's funny how they keep telling people they're doctors, even though they're not (no matter how much they want that to be true). They're the red headed step child of the medical field.