Rogers vs TELUS iPhone signal (Alberta specifically)

[theonlywhiteout]

I came across an interesting article that was posted last year, and I was hoping to get some feedback from some of the more techy and educated iPhone and mobility users here.

http://www.iphoneincanada.ca/carrier...e-advertising/

Essentially at one point in the article the person suggests that because 3g/hspa the only network TELUS has available to it, if you ever fall into an area where 3G isn't possible you simply lose connection to everything as there's no downgraded system to fall back on (Edge, on Rogers).

Is he making good points or, is it just jibberish?

[silentsim]

No he is right. Prior to Telus and Bell sharing towers for HSPA+ they only ran a CDMA network. So when your Rogers/Fido would fall back on Edge, your 3G telus/bell phone would have no signal.

However, IMO bell/telus have faster 3g speeds...

its mostly some rural areas where bellus would not have coverage

[algernon]

Sounds like Telus sucking again. First the horrible commercials, unhelpful staff, and poor deals, now a hobbled iPhone. Par for their course. I hope their employees are ready for the onslaught once Shaw is up and running in wireless.

[silentsim]

Originally Posted by algernon

Sounds like Telus sucking again. First the horrible commercials, unhelpful staff, and poor deals, now a hobbled iPhone. Par for their course. I hope their employees are ready for the onslaught once Shaw is up and running in wireless.

It has nothing to do with Telus sucking. It's how they set up their network with Bell. Too costly to go backwards and get Edge type coverage...and unnecessary for the most part

[theonlywhiteout]

The unnecessary is what I'm getting at. If every tower they have is Hspa, why would you want edge?

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by algernon

Sounds like Telus sucking again. First the horrible commercials, unhelpful staff, and poor deals, now a hobbled iPhone. Par for their course. I hope their employees are ready for the onslaught once Shaw is up and running in wireless.

I too can not wait for Shaw. Mostly because it will be Wind like pricing but it will support iPhone.

[theonlywhiteout]

Ive called both rogers and telus to get my parents better pricing (dad on telus, rogers for my mom) and as soon as you mention wind and their rates to retention they bend over backwards for you. Ill take rogers and telus' network for a few extra shekels over wind anyday

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

I too can not wait for Shaw. Mostly because it will be Wind like pricing but it will support iPhone.

Unless I am mistaken, Shaw will use the same AWS bands as Wind (1700/2100). Doesn't that mean they won't be able to have the iPhone until a newer version is released that supports it?

Please tell me I am wrong, because then my wife would be willing to switch to Shaw.

[silentsim]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Unless I am mistaken, Shaw will use the same AWS bands as Wind (1700/2100). Doesn't that mean they won't be able to have the iPhone until a newer version is released that supports it?

Please tell me I am wrong, because then my wife would be willing to switch to Shaw.

Word is shaw will be using LTE technology, which would not support the current iPhone but perhaps the rumoured "Verizon iPhone"

[Acey]

Originally Posted by theonlywhiteout

The unnecessary is what I'm getting at. If every tower they have is Hspa, why would you want edge?

http://www.howardforums.com/showthre...he-new-network

Take ten minutes and read the first post of this thread and all will be revealed. The important part I will post below and you can go to the thread and read the whole post if it doesn't make sense, which it probably won't. Bottom line is this: there's nothing hobbed about your iPhone or any other, and Telus' network is decent considering they attempted to build an HSPA+ network across the second biggest country in the world, basically from the ground up, and with no GSM backhaul to boot. Ignoring the fact that the Canadian cell market badly suffers from price fixing and we are raped on a monthly basis, we are lucky in that we have 3 national carriers with solid HSPA networks on the same frequencies, a luxury they most certainly do not have in the United States. Away we go:

Well, there is no easy, straight-forward way to explain all the technically complicated items like these. To average Joe, they are just different technologies deployed by different providers. So far in Canada, we have seen...

1G: Analog cellular beginning... AMPS (once deployed all carriers)

2G: Digital PCS era... TDMA (IS-136, once deployed by Rogers), GSM (Rogers 2G network), iDEN (TELUS Mike), CDMA (IS-95 cdmaOne, deployed by TELUS and other regional Mobility carriers)

3G: Mobile data evolution... WCDMA (UMTS, the 3G network that Rogers currently uses, also by TELUS now), CDMA2000 (1x, the 3G network that TELUS currently uses)

WCDMA based UMTS is the de-facto 3G migration path for GSM carriers. So in many parts of the world where GSM is the dominant / only choice, "3G" simply refers to UMTS. But for the CDMA carriers like TELUS, their 3G migration path of choice back then has been CDMA2000, starting with the first phase, 1xRTT (though some have since abandoned CDMA and switched to UMTS for their 3G migration).

In the course of technological advancement, progress to allow more data-centric applications has led to "enhancements" to the mobile data connection...

1G: CDPD (in AMPS)
2G: CSD (in TDMA & GSM) -> GPRS -> EDGE (in GSM)
3G: HSPA [HSDPA, HSUPA] -> HSPA+ (in UMTS); EVDO Rev. 0 -> EVDO Rev. A (in CDMA2000)

For the marketing sake, TELUS has been careful about the confusion with the "3G" when they first launched the CDMA2000 network (even though many argues the first phase of 1x has never realized the potentials or advantages of 3G from a subscriber perspective). So TELUS just called it "1x".

Then when the next iteration, 1xEV-DO was deployed to bring the "real 3G" experience with data-centric applications, TELUS has chosen the term, "EVDO". However, as more and more people get used to the idea that 3G means more about "going online, web-browsing, video streaming with cellphones" than the underlying technologies / air-interfaces, TELUS has started to market its network as "3G" alongside with "EVDO" references.

When TELUS announced to deploy the WCDMA based UMTS network, which is the de-facto "3G" network for GSM carriers, confusion then arises... "TELUS goes GSM"? "3G"? "EVDO"? "UMTS"? "HSPA"? What the hell? Unlike GSM carriers with the natural "3G" path to go with UMTS, TELUS will maintain BOTH "3G" networks: CDMA2000 (1x/EVDO) and WCDMA (UMTS/HSPA).

On the other hand, Rogers has been using the "3G" for a while along with the deployment of HSPA (up to 3.6Mbps, then in the following iteration 7.2Mbps downlink) and now HSPA+ (up to 21Mbps downlink).

So if TELUS has opted for just calling the new network as "3G", it could not immediately differentiate itself from the existing "EVDO" one. If it has opted for just calling it "UMTS", some may think it would be the earlier phase of "3G" and "slower speed" than what Rogers has right now. To catch up with the global trend, TELUS picks the terms, "HSPA+" / "3G+" for better positioning its progress among the rest of the "3G" crowd around while differentiates itself from other 2G "GSM" networks (which TELUS is NOT going to deploy).

It is also a good idea for TELUS subscribers when picking the handsets for the new network because it will be better to describe its compatibility than calling it "3G"... use the TELUS "HSPA" / "HSPA+" / "3G+" network compatible devices - NOT "GSM", NOT "EVDO".

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by silentsim

Word is shaw will be using LTE technology, which would not support the current iPhone but perhaps the rumoured "Verizon iPhone"

At which point, it would work with Wind, no?

[theonlywhiteout]

Originally Posted by Acey

http://www.howardforums.com/showthre...he-new-network

Take ten minutes and read the first post of this thread and all will be revealed. The important part I will post below and you can go to the thread and read the whole post if it doesn't make sense, which it probably won't. Bottom line is this: there's nothing hobbed about your iPhone or any other, and Telus' network is decent considering they attempted to build an HSPA+ network across the second biggest country in the world, basically from the ground up, and with no GSM backhaul to boot. Ignoring the fact that the Canadian cell market badly suffers from price fixing and we are raped on a monthly basis, we are lucky in that we have 3 national carriers with solid HSPA networks on the same frequencies, a luxury they most certainly do not have in the United States. Away we go:

Yeah my fears of switching to telus iphone have been alleviated a lot. One of my friends at work says she can drive from BC to Saskatchewan and never lose 3g during the trip, even out on the highway.

The guy "X" who wrote the article I posted in my original post here really does people a disservice. He makes a fallacious argument I think, by starting off the argument with "if you have both carriers iphones side by side and lose 3g for both networks..." essentially you're biasing the conversation right there. TELUS' network is different and maybe wont lose the 3g where a rogers phone would and fall back to edge.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by theonlywhiteout

Ive called both rogers and telus to get my parents better pricing (dad on telus, rogers for my mom) and as soon as you mention wind and their rates to retention they bend over backwards for you. Ill take rogers and telus' network for a few extra shekels over wind anyday

if i'm on a contract with Bell, is there any point in calling a customer service rep and mentioning the Wind deals? i'm assuming they'll just tell me to politely screw off, as i'd have to pay much more in cancellation fees than i'd save actually switching carriers

[theonlywhiteout]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

if i'm on a contract with Bell, is there any point in calling a customer service rep and mentioning the Wind deals? i'm assuming they'll just tell me to politely screw off, as i'd have to pay much more in cancellation fees than i'd save actually switching carriers

No man do it. When I get home I'll write more on how to deal with a retention dept

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

if i'm on a contract with Bell, is there any point in calling a customer service rep and mentioning the Wind deals? i'm assuming they'll just tell me to politely screw off, as i'd have to pay much more in cancellation fees than i'd save actually switching carriers

Do the math. If the math doesn't work out, then your plan probably is pretty good. It doesn't need to be a lot for you to have a little leverage.

For example, if you will come out even but will be without a contract, it still gives you a bit of leverage to get call display or X feature for a discount, since you will have freedom to do what you want as far as your plan is.

That includes taking advantage of certain deals your employer might offer for wireless in the upcoming 12 months...

[theonlywhiteout]

So when speaking to retention:

• Be polite and friendly. This makes a huge difference... people who work in retention are FAR more likely to make your life easier and get you off the phone faster if you treat them with respect
• Make it clear you're willing to switch if it makes economic sense
• Outline to them a case for them as to why you are leaving. If wind has a cheap plan tell them the plan and ask them to match it, if they wont respond with "they are offering me a nice sized credit to buy out my contract, but I like your company and want to remain loyal".
  
  If that doesn't help, either your asking for too much or you're speaking to a jerk.

[silentsim]

Originally Posted by Rathji

At which point, it would work with Wind, no?

Nope. Aws is different.AWS phones are tmobile phones.

[Acey]

I believe Telus and Bell attempted to install HSPA equipment on every existing CDMA tower. Whether or not they achieved that is irrelevant because the range of HSPA signals is way worse than CDMA.

[theonlywhiteout]

i just got my iphone from telus in the mail. ill be able to do a 1st hand comparison with my rogers one before i sell it, ill post results here. i actually htink ill avoid the other thread as this one is rogers vs telus specifically. i think i may actually drive to the crowsnest pass this weekend too just to see how the signal does on the high way. no offence acey but i hope you're wrong about the telus network :P

[Acey]

Sure. Mind you, whether or not the network is good or bad is your opinion, I just came in this thread to post info on why the network is the way it is.

CDMA = a pipe a mile long but a meter wide
HSPA = a pipe a mile wide but a meter long

That's all it comes down to... reception on iPhones and any of the newer phones will never be as good as it once was, but the devices are a lot more capable.