2010 Blue Jays Season Thread - Page 97 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

CaramonLS · 12-17-2010, 07:24 PM

Grienke has now fired his agent and requested a trade:

Good news for the Jays as it might drive down the Royal's insane asking price.

Link

dustyanddaflames · 12-17-2010, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gozer

I'm hoping Lawrie does make it next year.

Sounds like he's got the stick, plug him in as starting third baseman and have Bautista and E5 back him up and get a journeyman in AAA.

If he struggles then the crowd teaches some humility and if he's solid then great!

I don't think that type of personality should be added to a young roster after two seasons of personal frustration. Let him shape the team working with Wells and Macdonald, instead of potentially butting heads with Snider and Romero when they're our lead dogs.

I understand, and it really is a great logic to groom the kid with a veteran presence, but he is just that - a kid. Can't see him making the club out of spring training, especially now that we brought back E5, that, and Lawrie has to learn a new position - something that doesn't happen overnight. Interesting logic though, seems the kid thinks awfully highly of himself - whether it be good or bad is yet to be determined.

dustyanddaflames · 12-17-2010, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

Grienke has now fired his agent and requested a trade:

Good news for the Jays as it might drive down the Royal's insane asking price.

Link

The more I think of the Grienke trade possibility, the more I am against it. Anthopolous has built through the draft, and trading major league talent to stockpile their farm system. It really is leading to a point where the Jays will become the Rays of a few years back, with all their talent groomed for a specific point in time.

Trading for Grienke off sets all of this, along with the chance that he walks in two years time. I like what Anthopolous has done thus far, really building a strong foundation from the ground up - and A.A. will have a roster full blue chip prospects who may feel a connection to the city and organization. Lets not forget, Anthopolous faces a huge hurdle in bringing big name free agents north of the border (taxes, turf field, Canada).

RedHot25 · 12-18-2010, 04:50 AM

Good points.

The one thing I have started to hear rumblings of, however, is about Drabek. Apparently some are starting to think of him as a middle rotation - even 3-4th pitcher - and not a #1 or #2. So there is some talk of that may be why the Jays are interested in Greinke; trying to get something of worth for Drabek while his stock is still (somewhat) high.

I think I read it on ESPN, but that said I don't have a link, so take it with a grain of salt. But still an interesting tidbit nonetheless.

CaramonLS · 12-18-2010, 10:40 AM

It all depends on what the asking price is for the guy. If it is our 2 A prospects in Snider/Drabek, then no thanks, but if it is something like Drabek +... I could be a lot more open to the deal.

calculoso · 12-19-2010, 02:17 PM

http://wap.sportsnet.ca/baseball/201...ewers_greinke/

The Royals announced Sunday that they acquired shortstop Alcides Escobar, outfielder Lorenzo Cain and right-handed minor league pitchers Jake Odorizzi and exchange for Greinke, shortstop Yuniesky Betancourt and cash considerations.

CaramonLS · 12-19-2010, 04:39 PM

To put it in perspective, Hechevarria, Drabek, Snider, Alvarez - are probably the price the jays would have had to pay to do this deal (post stolen from another board).

dustyanddaflames · 12-19-2010, 04:45 PM

I for one am uber glad A.A. decided to stand pat and continue on the route he has been this past year. For a club who isn't going to be ready to contend for another year or two, this deal just didn't make enough sense.

EDIT - there was speculation that the Drabek/Snider deal wouldn't have been enough to land Grienke, guess they were right.

CaramonLS · 12-19-2010, 04:47 PM

Price was simply far too high - agreed.

Caged Great · 12-19-2010, 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

To put it in perspective, Hechevarria, Drabek, Snider, Alvarez - are probably the price the jays would have had to pay to do this deal (post stolen from another board).

Which is beyond stupid, especially considering that Snider and Drabek could possibly combine to have as good of a WAR as Greinke will have as soon as next year depending on breakouts of the two kids.

The Jays will be more than fine going forward, they just have to be patient while their stockpile of good young players in the lower leagues (A and below) start to develop.

CaramonLS · 12-19-2010, 04:56 PM

I also expect Snider to have a good year - thinking around an .850 OPS. If it wasn't for his injury/poor 1st month of the season, he really would have had a nice line.

Gozer · 12-20-2010, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

To put it in perspective, Hechevarria, Drabek, Snider, Alvarez - are probably the price the jays would have had to pay to do this deal (post stolen from another board).

I think that's over-stating it, Snider & Drabek is a better offer in my eyes.

Lil Pedro · 12-20-2010, 11:14 AM

Glad we didn't acquire Greinke. While he is a good player, it was way too much to give up on a guy whose only proven that he can be a dominant pitcher for one year. I am really looking forward to what we can see from our pitching staff this year, especially now that Drabek will be sticking with the big club on opening day
Romero-Cecil-Morrow-Drabek is a solid starting four IMO

Sylvanfan · 12-20-2010, 12:39 PM

I'm glad that they seem to be sticking to their strategy and not letting a surprisingly successful year influence the overall plan.

I may not be the biggest fan of the Marcum for Lawrie trade, but it does fit within what appears to be the longer range overall plan.

Trading Snider and Drabek for Grienke who I think would get lit up in the AL East...wouldn't have.

I'm happy to see that do appear to be sticking with their plan and that the moves the team is making are fitting that vision. I do think it is the only way the team will ever have a chance to get back to the post season.

Gozer · 12-20-2010, 12:56 PM

I'm also optimistic about Jesse Litsch who is 25 and has 340 innings with a 1.32 whip. Also missed a year (TJ) and learned from Doc.

Either as a 5th starter or as another guy that could moved for a legit prospect.

RedHot25 · 12-20-2010, 06:32 PM

Of note, this Greinke-Jays discussion may all have been for moot. Jeff Blair, G&M, I think has in the paper today that Greinke has a no-movement or no-trade or has some sort of control over the teams he can go to, and it excludes the jays. he wants to go to a winner. So the jays apparently could not have acquired him even if they wanted to...

dustyanddaflames · 12-20-2010, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedHot25

Of note, this Greinke-Jays discussion may all have been for moot. Jeff Blair, G&M, I think has in the paper today that Greinke has a no-movement or no-trade or has some sort of control over the teams he can go to, and it excludes the jays. he wants to go to a winner. So the jays apparently could not have acquired him even if they wanted to...

He sure may be right, as there is now speculation that Grienke nixed a deal to the Nationals, and Washington sure has a hell of a lot better chance of making the playoffs in the next two years than the Jays do. Surprising, as the Nationals are going to be damn good in two years with the return of Strausburg and Bryce Harper's emergence.

Milwaukee is a very interesting choice, as once Prince walks next year, there is a huge gaping hole at first base. I know Corey Hart and Casey McGahee had very good year's (Hart has had two above avg. years) last year, but I am somewhat skeptical if they'll put up similar numbers in 2011. If both regress, that lineup is very, very thin outside of Braun/Fielder.

That and the NL Central is a very tough division to begin with, there are some legitimate clubs (Reds/Cardinals). I still believe Milwaukee is the third best team as of today.

ricoFlame · 12-20-2010, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedHot25

Of note, this Greinke-Jays discussion may all have been for moot. Jeff Blair, G&M, I think has in the paper today that Greinke has a no-movement or no-trade or has some sort of control over the teams he can go to, and it excludes the jays. he wants to go to a winner. So the jays apparently could not have acquired him even if they wanted to...

it also included milwaukee.

moon · 12-20-2010, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dustyanddaflames

That and the NL Central is a very tough division to begin with, there are some legitimate clubs (Reds/Cardinals). I still believe Milwaukee is the third best team as of today.

Cardinals have had a god awful off-season they are no longer legit or ahead of the Brewers.

The Cards need everyone of their 4 good players to have their typical great years, 3 young guys to continue to show that they are legit after one season and everyone else to overachieve to have a shot at the division.

There isn't a team out there that wasted what could have been a great chance to build a team this off-season more than the Cardinals.

dustyanddaflames · 12-20-2010, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moon

Cardinals have had a god awful off-season they are no longer legit or ahead of the Brewers.

The Cards need everyone of their 4 good players to have their typical great years, 3 young guys to continue to show that they are legit after one season and everyone else to overachieve to have a shot at the division.

There isn't a team out there that wasted what could have been a great chance to build a team this off-season more than the Cardinals.

I disagree, I think the Yankees have come away the biggest losers this off-season. Losing out on Lee all but assured me the Yanks are going to struggle off the mound, and will have to hit their way past Boston. Adding no arms to that rotation (as of yet), is recognizing your biggest weakness and failing to address it. Outside of Sabathia, and somewhat Hughes, there is nothing to fall back on. St. Louis at least has Carpenter/Wainwright, Pujols/Holliday.

While I agree the Cardinals haven't improved whatsoever this off-season, when referring to the Cards/Brewers, I will place money 10 times out of 10 on the team that expects to win, and has a history of winning over the team that has never won. You can't underestimate the importance in the belief of winning, and the experience that goes along with it.

I think the Rasmus/La Russa fued had a lot to do with the demise of that locker room and the slide down the standings. I will never place money against the Cardinals - and I hate the Cardinals.