OMHA Racial Slur Incident

[Cecil Terwilliger]

This all seems like a lot of hoopla over a kid doing something stupid and more than likely out of character and isolated incident.

Do we have any reason to believe that this young kid did anything more than make a stupid mistake? Do we have any reason to believe his actions were based on hate and discrimination? Why is the surrounding BS even a story? Unless this kid has showed up foe practice in his kkk robes I don't see what the big deal is other than sensationalism.

[something]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

This all seems like a lot of hoopla over a kid doing something stupid and more than likely out of character and isolated incident.

Do we have any reason to believe that this young kid did anything more than make a stupid mistake? Do we have any reason to believe his actions were based on hate and discrimination? Why is the surrounding BS even a story? Unless this kid has showed up foe practice in his kkk robes I don't see what the big deal is other than sensationalism.

The hoopla is the mixed reaction to the coach's decision to forfeit, not the child who made the remark.

It probably was just something stupid, though I doubt it is an isolated incident. The hoopla is likely appropriate as it forces many people to reflect on what racism is and how they ought to react towards it.

[Red Ice Player]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

This all seems like a lot of hoopla over a kid doing something stupid and more than likely out of character and isolated incident.

Do we have any reason to believe that this young kid did anything more than make a stupid mistake? Do we have any reason to believe his actions were based on hate and discrimination? Why is the surrounding BS even a story? Unless this kid has showed up foe practice in his kkk robes I don't see what the big deal is other than sensationalism.

The "hoopla" is about the inappropriate season long suspension. The kid who did the slur was suspended, and eventually apologized, which should have been the end of it. The OMHA is prolonging this incident with its stupid vindictive suspension of coach Walsh.

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by Red Ice Player

The "hoopla" is about the inappropriate season long suspension. The kid who did the slur was suspended, and eventually apologized, which should have been the end of it. The OMHA is prolonging this incident with its stupid vindictive suspension of coach Walsh.

No they are not. The reason leagues have harsh rules to stop coaches from pulling their teams from the ice is to prevent racism. To stop the "We don't play those types" types.

Walsh went way, WAY overboard over something done by a immature kid and comes across as a prima dona. Is he going to do it again when the calls don't go his way?

[BigBrodieFan]

Originally Posted by something

It's important to be humble in our perspective on matters or any event that we were not present to witness, but we must form some accountability at some point. Consider the following: would you tell your kid when he comes home and lets you know that he was beaten up for his lunch money, "Sorry kiddo, I wasn't there, maybe you could have handled it better though?". That is absolutely what I would say. Yes. In my situation if my 6'3 205 8th grader got be up for his lunch money I would say 'What's wrong with this picture'- but I understand your point. Some kids wouldn't have any advantage.

What a lot of the posters in this thread is forgetting is that any comment that arbitrarily, or superficially, denigrates another human, there ought to be some accountability. Some posters are forgetting that boys will be boys, and this is life- sh*t happens. If you were told that you were a terrible hockey player by the opponent, it doesn't matter whether or not you are. You can demonstrate through your actions on the rink, by playing to the best of your ability whether or not such a statement is correct. If, however, someone derogated your character with no reasonable method of demonstrating the falsity of such a statement, you have no rationally connected recourse. So, for example, if you were denigrated by way of a racial slur, how could playing hockey possibly demonstrate the absurdity of such a remark - "You're a n_____" "Oh yeah? Watch my slap shot!" Failing to respond rationally will ultimately condone such ignorance. Then again, if you didn't fail to respond rationally, and you just utilized the 'sticks and stones' attitude (like my kid does), it's really not that big of a deal.

BigBrodieFan - while I condone your child's ostensibly excellent coping mechanisms and stoic attitude, I disagree with his response. It fails to hold the offenders accountable for their comments; even though the derogatory nature of those comments can be nullified by the absence of any concern. Explaining this: language acquires substance by reciprocation; the words you use in communicating with me must be agreed upon by myself if they are to hold any substance. If I disagree with the meaning of a word you use, the worth of that word becomes voided. If you were to make a random noise with the utmost hatred towards me, it would have little effect. What we are addressing here, then, is the attempt and intention of another person to denigrate someone else without proper justification - something much more fundamental than "just words". Perhaps if we were to have a meaningful discussion about this subject as adults, I would feel comfortable in agreeing with the points you've made. But we're talking about 13-14 year old kids who, whether you like it or not, have it in their genetic makeup to talk trash at this age because they feel invincible, and there are no holds barred in highly competitive young, immature athletes. This is the whole point.

I do not want to presume your socioeconomic status, but probability would suggest that your son has greater future worth than children of a minority. Well, in fairness, my son plays on an elite travel team where all parents spend a boat load of money each month on tournament fees and other expenses, so we all pay the same to play for the same coach. These kids are Johnson County brats who have everything handed to them on a silver plate. So, maybe if the socioeconomic forces were in play, it might make a difference. Socioeconomic potential is a buffer to such denigration. Minorities often form identities that seek pride in who they are as is identified by the disparities among them and the majority. When you slur a child of a minority, there exists the potential of exacerbating these identities, promoting disparity. Pop culture is an excellent indication of this, as children of a minority are disposed to artists that represent their identity.I absolutely agree. Before anyone suggests that I am promoting cultural hegemony, I am not. Nevertheless, when you suppress a population on an superficially identifiable characteristic that is incongruent with mainstream conditions promoting socioeconomic worth, you catalyze tension and conflict.

This is not to say your son is immune to hurtful remarks, and I do commend his courage in the face of such remarks. I am asking only that you be sensitive to the labeling of a child other than your own, who may need some guidance and support to realize that they are not less than others. So, I should forget about the 'whitey' remarks and be more sensitive to those children who may face more adversity? Well..I agree with you there as well.

The coach and the child who declared the racial slur must be accountable for their actions, alike. The decision of the OMHA to suspend the coach for the remainder of the season is disproportionate to the "offence" he committed. It's not like the coach was worried about making Starbucks before it closed so he could grab a venti frappuccino. He was reasonably disappointed with the officials inability to hold the offending child accountable, and exercised his discretion, not tyrannically, but democratically, to forfeit the game and send a powerful message that racism will not be tolerated.

That the OMHA did not account for these circumstances and punished the coach unduly and without proper consideration has reduced the organizations integrity, in my eyes.

Thank you for the very well thought out response, it is much appreciated.

[Red Ice Player]

Originally Posted by HOZ

No they are not. The reason leagues have harsh rules to stop coaches from pulling their teams from the ice is to prevent racism. To stop the "We don't play those types" types.

Walsh went way, WAY overboard over something done by a immature kid and comes across as a prima dona. Is he going to do it again when the calls don't go his way?

Is he? There doesn't seem to be any evidence of him doing this before. And Walsh's actions are anything but those of a prima dona. It was a very principled decision. And if this rule is intended to prevent racism, it seems the application of it is completely going against the spirit of it.

[Winnie]

Originally Posted by BigBrodieFan

I have been talking about this with my 14 year old for awhile since it came up in another thread. I think I agree with you.

My reasoning is this- My son plays on a basketball team that's coached by a black male, probably mid 30s I'd say. His team has 10 players, 7 black, 1 Russian, and 2 white kids. My son is very tall for just turning 14, 6'3 and he weighs 205. Last night he scored 16 points and one of the kids said 'Not too bad for a white guy.' This isn't the first time he's been razzed for being 'a white guy' and I am sure it won't be the last. They call him cracker/whitey and all kinds of other names, and his coach does it too. I really never even thought about it before, just sort of laughed along. But- I was thinking of this situation in hockey and I asked my son last night what he would have done in the same situation. He said 'Mom, they are just stupid words by stupid kids. The main thing is, we win the game. No way I'd want to stop playing over some stupid comment or name calling.'

Now, mind you, he's been brought up in Mid-Western America, not Canada. Racial issues here are just so different than I remember in Canada.

Just some comments from another perspective. I am not saying the coach was wrong- but I think that pulling the team was probably not the best way to handle the situation.

Things aren't that different in Canada. Playing high school basketball in Ontario, our high school teams were pretty much all white. Our school division had some of the best teams in Canada, which happened to be all black. We got slaughtered pretty much every game. Playing away games, the 'whitey' and 'cracker' comments were par for the course. Nobody packed up their stuff and went home though, because the comments were chalked up to a few ignorant idiots. If folks packed it in after every ignorant or disrespectful comment in a competitive event, a majority of the games wouldn't get finished.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by something

I do not want to presume your socioeconomic status, but probability would suggest that your son has greater future worth than children of a minority.

Did you really go there? Seems like you're trying to hard while slipping in a racist comment yourself. The probability is that if a kid is playing hockey, regardless of his ethnicity, his parents are unlikely to be poor since minor hockey is an expensive pastime for youths. And as such, is likely to have a future worth comparable to a middle class while kid.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by Mad Mel

You can bet that the next time an incident like this occurs on the ice, the officials and the league will deal with it properly.

Well done, coach.

That's a very good point MM. The whole exercise has probably been useful in that it will help make changes to the rules so that the league and officials act more appropriately in dealing with these types of issues in the future.

[killer_carlson]

I support the coach 100% in this.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I support the coach 100% in this.

Me too.

he made a statement louder than anything the league or other coach could have, and it wasnt directed at the kid who initiated all this. he is fighting for change overall throughout the system he is involved in...change that should have been dealt with long ago.

What the league is saying in essence is, that pulling a team off the ice in protest of racism is much more heinous than allowing racism to occur to begin with. Thats simply a brutal way of doing things.

[flamesfever]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Me too.

he made a statement louder than anything the league or other coach could have, and it wasnt directed at the kid who initiated all this. he is fighting for change overall throughout the system he is involved in...change that should have been dealt with long ago.

What the league is saying in essence is, that pulling a team off the ice in protest of racism is much more heinous than allowing racism to occur to begin with. Thats simply a brutal way of doing things.

That's true but how do you use this as an example to set policy for dealing with this type of thing in the future?

[something]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

Did you really go there? Seems like you're trying to hard while slipping in a racist comment yourself. The probability is that if a kid is playing hockey, regardless of his ethnicity, his parents are unlikely to be poor since minor hockey is an expensive pastime for youths. And as such, is likely to have a future worth comparable to a middle class while kid.

Or else they would be affluent, otherwise they could not afford to support their child's participation in such an expensive sport...

The corollary argument is also feasible, do you realize why I wrote "I do not want to presume your socioeconomic status"? Does that make sense for you?

You're assertion of me being racist is ironic. I am attacking a statistically backed condition of minority groups, that is not racist. You are attacking a coach who, with the universal support of his team, stood up to a violation of human dignity. Big difference. Pay attention to it, and put some thought into your posts before you begin slandering.

[something]

Originally Posted by BigBrodieFan

Thank you for the very well thought out response, it is much appreciated.

I appreciate the response, it seems our division comes down to nothing more than a simple ideological/practical rift.

I do commend your son for the way he handles it, as it undoubtedly requires strength of character to be stoic in the same manner that he is.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by something

Or else they would be affluent, otherwise they could not afford to support their child's participation in such an expensive sport...

The corollary argument is also feasible, do you realize why I wrote "I do not want to presume your socioeconomic status"? Does that make sense for you?

You're assertion of me being racist is ironic. I am attacking a statistically backed condition of minority groups, that is not racist. You are attacking a coach who, with the universal support of his team, stood up to a violation of human dignity. Big difference. Pay attention to it, and put some thought into your posts before you begin slandering.

A violation of human dignity? Spare me the melodramatics. It was an ignorant remark by a kid. The coach didn't like how it was handled and he broke the rules.

Your statement was racist, especially since you didn't provide any statistical information to back up your statement but even if you did provide stats it doesn't make your statement any less racist. Suggesting that a white kid is better able to handle the situation because he's got a brighter future due to his ethnicity is just plain racist. I'd guess that's why you're attempting so hard to fight "violations of human dignity".

And just because I don't attempt to use every polysyllable word I know to act like I'm smart, doesn't mean I don't put thought into my posts. I prefer to focus on the content instead of attempting to baffle people with BS.

[something]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

A violation of human dignity? Spare me the melodramatics. It was an ignorant remark by a kid. The coach didn't like how it was handled and he broke the rules.

Your statement was racist, especially since you didn't provide any statistical information to back up your statement but even if you did provide stats it doesn't make your statement any less racist. Suggesting that a white kid is better able to handle the situation because he's got a brighter future due to his ethnicity is just plain racist. I'd guess that's why you're attempting so hard to fight "violations of human dignity".

And just because I don't attempt to use every polysyllable word I know to act like I'm smart, doesn't mean I don't put thought into my posts. I prefer to focus on the content instead of attempting to baffle people with BS.

Then focus on the content, please.

I was going to pull up some statistics for you, but I guess that wouldn't make it any less racist... I won't bother than. I will explain to you the point of my statement one last time from a slightly modified perspective:

When an individual can identify with mainstream culture, one that grants us conditions by which their socioeconomic status flourishes, any identification of that whether decent or derogatory, has less of an effect. Or, on the flipside, any identification of that person's characteristics exacerbates their association to a particular identity when it is not supported by the general conditions of that culture. It is oppressive, and demands a response. If that response were aggressive, the child would have fought the other child. If passive, they incorporate the comment into their identity and manifest it through various coping mechanisms. These can be positive, or negative.

Whether or not it was an ignorant remark by that child, I don't believe we can absolve him from his duty to treat others with respect.

I leave this thought with you. Mull over it, try to identify the implications, and refute it if you feel it is appropriate. Then, take your leave from this thread. If you don't feel the OMHA was out of line in their response to the coach's actions, don't bother sending Mr. Ropchan a letter.

If you're having trouble with polysyllabic words (which you use, outside of "the", "a", "my", etc...), I suggest:

www.m-w.com

[something]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

Your statement was racist, especially since you didn't provide any statistical information to back up your statement but even if you did provide stats it doesn't make your statement any less racist.

Do you not see the problem with this statement?

Is it that elusive???

I revert to my comment that you should put some thought into your posts. It is evident to me that the way you process facts is not unintelligent, but careless and reckless. You fail to prioritize your thoughts well enough to be intelligible and provide a respectable argument.

Until then: you are incoherent, unreasonable, and slanderous.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by something

Do you not see the problem with this statement?

Is it that elusive???

I revert to my comment that you should put some thought into your posts. It is evident to me that the way you process facts is not unintelligent, but careless and reckless. You fail to prioritize your thoughts well enough to be intelligible and provide a respectable argument.

Until then: you are incoherent, unreasonable, and slanderous.

Who are you? Jackie Chiles?

Originally Posted by something

Then focus on the content, please.

I was going to pull up some statistics for you, but I guess that wouldn't make it any less racist... I won't bother than. I will explain to you the point of my statement one last time from a slightly modified perspective:

When an individual can identify with mainstream culture, one that grants us conditions by which their socioeconomic status flourishes, any identification of that whether decent or derogatory, has less of an effect. Or, on the flipside, any identification of that person's characteristics exacerbates their association to a particular identity when it is not supported by the general conditions of that culture. It is oppressive, and demands a response. If that response were aggressive, the child would have fought the other child. If passive, they incorporate the comment into their identity and manifest it through various coping mechanisms. These can be positive, or negative.

That's nice that you can copy stuff from a sociology textbook. It does not change the fact that your comments were racist.

Whether or not it was an ignorant remark by that child, I don't believe we can absolve him from his duty to treat others with respect.

Was there any doubt that it was an ignorant remark? No there wasn't. And who said that he should be absolved from his duty to treat others with respect?

I leave this thought with you. Mull over it, try to identify the implications, and refute it if you feel it is appropriate. Then, take your leave from this thread. If you don't feel the OMHA was out of line in their response to the coach's actions, don't bother sending Mr. Ropchan a letter.

Who made you the boss around here? Telling others what to do when you've been here less than a month, that's extremely arrogant.

If you're having trouble with polysyllabic words (which you use, outside of "the", "a", "my", etc...), I suggest:

www.m-w.com

I have no problem with polysyllabic words, but the pretentious manner in which you post nothing of any real substance leads me to believe that you're just copying out of a textbook.

[flamesfever]

It appears to me that the present rules, of the OMHA regarding racial slurs by players, may be in conflict with the moral and ethical sensibilities of the general public. Changing them to be more harsh and specific may solve the problem for the executives and referees in handing out suspensions and penalties respectively... and also coaches in agreeing to abide by the rules.

[something]

You are irony, personified, GTF.

Your inept manipulation of logic to "win" an internet argument is concerning as there is no incentive to do so. This demonstrates the degree of your arrogance, your ignorance. I will no longer address your premises or arguments, because, well, you just don't get it.

I truthfully believe that you cannot read between lines. You read and impose your perspective on material in such a remarkably linear, simplistic fashion that I don't even think you'll understand any of this.

I am not sure if you are educated or not, but I trust you are not in any position in this world to make decisions of any influence.

Evidently you refrain from putting thought into your posts still, after several recommendations. At this point, I concede to the following idiom:

"Never argue with an idiot, they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Oh, the Jacke Chiles thing made me laugh.