North and South Korea exchange artillery fire

[T@T]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

South Korean intelligence says the North will very likely attack again amid uncertainty with leadership succession. Along with the impending retirement for Kim Jong-Il, these look to destabilize the area further.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11887236

Not surprising given all that's happened... Even Chinese intel is saying NK has a good chance of collapsing when Kim Jong-Il passes.

South Korean President Lee Myung-bak warned this week that North Korea would face severe consequences if it launched another military attack across its southern border.

"If the North commits any additional provocations against the South, we will make sure that it pays a dear price without fail," Lee said in a nationally televised address.

I guess their fed up...and they should be.

[Knut]

^ It is a real tough spot for them. They have to find the right balance for a measured response. Too weak of a response and the attacks might continue, too much of a response we could have a full out war break out. I think the hope is that China can reign in NK before it gets to that point.

[Pinner]

I like this night photo,

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by Hesla

^ It is a real tough spot for them. They have to find the right balance for a measured response. Too weak of a response and the attacks might continue, too much of a response we could have a full out war break out. I think the hope is that China can reign in NK before it gets to that point.

And let's not forget S. Korea is a democracy. Those in power right now are trying to appease voters, too. There's supposedly a large pro-war body and a strong "it's South Korea's fault" body, too.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by T@T

I guess their fed up...and they should be.

I guess they have a 3 strike rule in South Korea.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I guess they have a 3 strike rule in South Korea.

NK used up those strikes years ago... blowing up planes, trying to assassinate SK presidents, etc...

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Pinner

I like this night photo,

So SK has nothing to worry about then? Their enemy doesn't even have any working lights except in Pyongyang

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by cal_guy

Both of those are Air-to-Air weapons, not the types of weapons that are really needed in Afghanistan.

Ever hear of an Afghan rug? Weaponized flying carpets.

But you're right.

[wooohooo]

I was hoping to go to Seoul this Christmas... mmmmhmmmm maybe not!

[SeeBass]

This new gun should come in handy

http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/11876041

[FlameOn]

North is now saying war is inevitable. Also that any new war will involve nuclear weapons.

I'm leaning towards this being a real big bluff.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101217...nuclearwarning

[FlamesAddiction]

I get ESL job postings sent to my email and for the past week, quite a few "emergency" positions have been popping up in SK. I guess people are bailing.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

North is now saying war is inevitable. Also that any new war will involve nuclear weapons.

I'm leaning towards this being a real big bluff.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20101217...nuclearwarning

NK is delusional, they can threaten their nukes all they want but unless they are willing to do a strike first with them they won't even leave the launchers.

[SeeBass]

I am willing to bet there are no Nukes.

but it is easy for me to bet I guess

[Ozy_Flame]

"If war breaks out, it will lead to nuclear warfare and not be limited to the Korean peninsula," it said in a posting dated Thursday.

This is a scary thought. I don't think they would actually lob something, but Japan better not resting on its laurels right now. They were already considering a military build-up and implementing more aggressive policies in the East Asian theatre, this might lend more credibility to that cause.

North Korea is probably terrified of going to war, but they are probably waiting, just for the right time, for the perfect provocation to act.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

I am willing to bet there are no Nukes.

but it is easy for me to bet I guess

In 2009, the NKs tested a nuclear weapon underground despite the condemnation of most of the world. There is a seismic event to prove it but it was quite weak so most of the countries in the area know the bomb isn't incredibly high yield and no real radiation was detected. The nuclear explosion produced a 4.7 richter scale seismic event. Optimistic estimates put the bomb at 10-20 kilotons, but enough to kill and sicken millions of people in the incredibly densely populated South.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_No...n_nuclear_test

[CaptainCrunch]

From reading the press on that test, I understood it was a fizzle on a not very well validated design.

Building a nuclear bomb is now considered to be childs play if you have access to the material to build it.

Even 20 kilotons is equal to equal to setting off 20,000 tonnes of TNT, even as a weak bomb it would carve an enormous hole out of a city, a 20 kiloton bomb would carve out a crater about 80 metres wide, about 20 meters deep, fall out pre wind would spread out over an area of about 100 km's. You'd have thousands of casualties immediately depending on where its drop, the long term damage would range by population density.

Its unlikely that the Koreans are building a clean weapon either.

Remember that the Hiroshima bomb was I think 10 kts and look at the damage to that city. The second on in Nagasaki was about 20kts and they were both relatively inefficient designs.

Even a 1kt bomb delivered by artillery would be something like 10 times the size of the Oklahoma conventional bomb, and you can fire a lot of 1kt artillary rounds in a hurry.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

From reading the press on that test, I understood it was a fizzle on a not very well validated design.

Building a nuclear bomb is now considered to be childs play if you have access to the material to build it.

Even 20 kilotons is equal to equal to setting off 20,000 tonnes of TNT, even as a weak bomb it would carve an enormous hole out of a city, a 20 kiloton bomb would carve out a crater about 80 metres wide, about 20 meters deep, fall out pre wind would spread out over an area of about 100 km's. You'd have thousands of casualties immediately depending on where its drop, the long term damage would range by population density.

Its unlikely that the Koreans are building a clean weapon either.

Remember that the Hiroshima bomb was I think 10 kts and look at the damage to that city. The second on in Nagasaki was about 20kts and they were both relatively inefficient designs.

Even a 1kt bomb delivered by artillery would be something like 10 times the size of the Oklahoma conventional bomb, and you can fire a lot of 1kt artillary rounds in a hurry.

Check out this year's documentary Countdown to Zero. In it, Joe Biden (then Senator), asked a university professor to see how quickly his students could make a nuclear bomb. They presented it a week later, and the only thing missing was the fissile material.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

In 2009, the NKs tested a nuclear weapon underground despite the condemnation of most of the world. There is a seismic event to prove it but it was quite weak so most of the countries in the area know the bomb isn't incredibly high yield and no real radiation was detected. The nuclear explosion produced a 4.7 richter scale seismic event. Optimistic estimates put the bomb at 10-20 kilotons, but enough to kill and sicken millions of people in the incredibly densely populated South.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_No...n_nuclear_test

the debate was out if that truly was a nuke or it was faked

I will guess it was a bluff

[Mr.Coffee]

I guess I'm surprised at how little press this region is getting in our mainstream news and media outlets. This is a big deal. Tensions are high and you have an island talking about going to all out war. Actually, not just talking about it, claiming that it is inevitable.

It's disappointing. You have a bat-**** crazy dictator handing off his regime to a son who wants to make his mark on the world. What better way than igniting a war and demonstrating the north's power?

I don't buy that this is a bluff that can be disregarded. At this point any threats or quotes need to be taken as serious as possible and I think all countries interested in peace need to get really bloody serious really fast, and start putting the pressure on China. This is ridiculous. Even if N Korea is only "potentially" nuclear capable- they appear willing and ready to drop them.

How is this not front page red alert news? The US and many other countries are going to be involved here.