London student protests getting out of hand

[Byrns]

Originally Posted by blankall

.....for Germans. Most people living in the UK do not hold German citizenship.

This is about $15,000.00 Canadian dollars? These riots aren't totally without merit.

Not just Germans.

Read this article. Sweden is getting rid of their free tuition next year.

http://chronicle.com/article/Sweden-...harging/64324/

[Resolute 14]

For perspective, a look at Canada's fees: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quoti...00916a-eng.htm

Average in Canada for this school year is $5100 or so. Tables 3 and 4 off that page are interesting. MBA programs reach as high as $28,000 on average.

I'm finding it hard to sympathize with the Brits' complaints about the tuition cap rising to a figure that is still only half of the highest tuition rates in Canada.

[icarus]

Here is a complete summary of the university funding issue and legislation in the UK in handy Q&A format:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-11483638

[NBC]

I paid £9500 for the final year of my PhD in the UK - as an overseas student.

Seeing how the vast majority of the students rioting are really only at University to be on a 3-year p*ss up, my sympathy is in short supply. There are far too many students at sub-standard universities taking ridiculous courses. While I agree that this is a big increase, there will be support for the more serious undergrads who wish to pursue a legitimate education as opposed to extending 'college' for 3 more years.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Cowperson

Everybody wants something for nothing.

Indeed.

Originally Posted by To Be Quite Honest

The people are speaking and being ignored. What else are they supposed to do when TPTB don't listen. These cost increases are rediculous. Imagine a rent increase doubled for the year. I paid 5000 this year and next it'll be 10 000. I'd start speaking and if I was ignored...

I've seen the figure of about 30%ish being batted around for the proportion of University budgets being funded by tuition. If I only had to pay a fraction of my housing costs and had the general public pick up the rest of the tab, would it be cool to light stuff on fire if my fraction had to go up a bit.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by chemgear

Indeed.



I've seen the figure of about 30%ish being batted around for the proportion of University budgets being funded by tuition. If I only had to pay a fraction of my housing costs and had the general public pick up the rest of the tab, would it be cool to light stuff on fire if my fraction had to go up a bit.

is up to 3X a fration in your world?

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

is up to 3X a fration in your world?

Don't get me wrong, I understand the 3X sucks. But in the larger picture, where should the money shortfall come from instead in the UK scenario?

EDIT: And I think you/I might have misunderstood. Even after they raise the limit on tuition, isn't that amount still a fraction (as in less than the sum total cost?) Just a bigger piece of the pie share?

[TopChed]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

For perspective, a look at Canada's fees: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quoti...00916a-eng.htm

Average in Canada for this school year is $5100 or so. Tables 3 and 4 off that page are interesting. MBA programs reach as high as $28,000 on average.

I'm finding it hard to sympathize with the Brits' complaints about the tuition cap rising to a figure that is still only half of the highest tuition rates in Canada.

Couple of questions. How many MBA students are in Canada, as opposed to undergrad degrees? You can't take the most expensive program and say it's universal. Even with that extremely high rate for some programs, the average is still just $5,100.

Also, how many students in the UK pay less than the maximum tuition right now? I doubt there are very many. So naturally, when the cap is raised, I'm sure tuition for almost every program in the country will as well.

[Table 5]

While some people obviously abuse the system (or don't respect it) when it's cheap, I feel like education is one of those things that is good for a country to subsidize in the long-term. An educated society tends to push your economy forward, and in turn brings tax revenue back to the system. The more empowered your workforce, the more likely they are to innovate, invent, and generally lead more productive lives.

England (and in some ways Canada) needs to be careful that they don't push things to the point where going to college becomes a huge burden like it now is in the US....ie, you come out with 100k debt, and spend the next 20 years paying it off. That is if you can even afford to go in the first place. I feel like I'm miles ahead of people here as my entire Canadians education came out to less than 1 semester at an American college.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by TopChed

Couple of questions. How many MBA students are in Canada, as opposed to undergrad degrees? You can't take the most expensive program and say it's universal. Even with that extremely high rate for some programs, the average is still just $5,100.

Also, how many students in the UK pay less than the maximum tuition right now? I doubt there are very many. So naturally, when the cap is raised, I'm sure tuition for almost every program in the country will as well.

But the max amount they're charging is 9,000 pounds if I understand the story correctly. Technically that would be the equivalent of whatever MBA or specialized program here, since it would be the most expensive. So that doesn't mean tuition for a normal undergrad program is going to be 9K.

If the normal cap was only 3K, that tells me they pay less than what we pay here.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

For perspective, a look at Canada's fees: http://www.statcan.gc.ca/daily-quoti...00916a-eng.htm

Average in Canada for this school year is $5100 or so. Tables 3 and 4 off that page are interesting. MBA programs reach as high as $28,000 on average.

I'm finding it hard to sympathize with the Brits' complaints about the tuition cap rising to a figure that is still only half of the highest tuition rates in Canada.

MBAs are a bad example. Most people taking an MBA are currently employed, often as professionals and have either the means (or access to the means, i.e. corporate funds) to pay those ridiculously high tuition rates and thus it drives the price up.

Most undergrad students are poor dependants.

[CaptainCrunch]

Pretty much everyone is going to get burned down to the shorts due to austerity measures, students aren't special.

After seeing some of the craziness in Europe that people are protesting over, I can honestly say, sucks to be you.

Its either raise tuition, or find another way reduce educational costs

[amorak]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

MBAs are a bad example. Most people taking an MBA are currently employed, often as professionals and have either the means (or access to the means, i.e. corporate funds) to pay those ridiculously high tuition rates and thus it drives the price up.

Most undergrad students are poor dependants.

Also, MBAs are now a joke in the business community and generally laughed at.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

But the max amount they're charging is 9,000 pounds if I understand the story correctly. Technically that would be the equivalent of whatever MBA or specialized program here, since it would be the most expensive. So that doesn't mean tuition for a normal undergrad program is going to be 9K.

If the normal cap was only 3K, that tells me they pay less than what we pay here.

I don't think the idea is that only a select few professional schools would charge the maximum. I think undergrad courses would go up across the board. That being said, programs like law and medicine are undergrad courses in the UK, in the sense that you go directly into them after high school.

As for your comparison to MBA programs in Canada, those are seperate. Each province has their own legislation limiting the tuition for college. These usually just apply to undergrad programs at public universities. Professional and private universities are still allowed to charge whatever they want in any province in Canada.

As for those commenting that university students should have to pay their way, you should think about what skilled workers bring to an economy. The bigger issue here is also social mobility. You're not limiting rich people from going to universtiy, you're limiting the poor. Basically, creating a situation where the best of the best might not be able to afford simple undergrad programs.

I'm all for limiting access to useless undergrad degrees, but the limit should be academic and not financial.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by amorak

Also, MBAs are now a joke in the business community and generally laughed at.

Depends where they are from. An MBA from Columbia will get you very very very far in the business world. An MBA from SFU....not so much.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by blankall

I'm all for limiting access to useless undergrad degrees, but the limit should be academic and not financial.

I would imagine tuition increases would help reduce useless undergrad degrees/students to some degree. And the "professional student" as well.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by chemgear

I would imagine tuition increases would help reduce useless undergrad degrees/students to some degree. And the "professional student" as well.

It's not the end goal, but the means I disagree with. If the limit is a financial one, then you end up with rich dumb kids.

Instead, I think they should reduce the overall number of spots in certain programs but increase the academic standards to attain those spots.

[troutman]

Australia offers free tuition to lure foreign post-grad students:

http://www.universityworldnews.com/a...80131161944491

Int'l comparison:

http://gecs.wordpress.com/2008/10/04...und-the-world/

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by amorak

Also, MBAs are now a joke in the business community and generally laughed at.

What a broad and ridiculous statement. If you could explain this to me, that would be most appreciated.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by TopChed

You can't take the most expensive program and say it's universal.

Indeed. Good thing I didn't, eh? I made it very clear that the MBA programs were the extreme. Just as anything in the UK actually charging £9000 would be their extreme.

In the BBC link above, any university in the UK that wants to charge more than £6000 will have to jump through hoops. When push comes to shove, I suspect that only some degrees will see tuition costs go above that figure. So, doctors, dentists, etc. In short, tuition costs in line with what you can expect to see in Canada. Somehow I suspect they'll survive once they get over being butthurt.