Death Row Drama Gains Star Support - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Cheese · 11-26-2005, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Last weekend, Snoop Dogg told about 1,000 people rallying outside San Quentin State Prison that Williams' activism has touched him.
"His voice needs to be heard," said the musician, whose new song, "Real Soon," touts Williams' anti-gang efforts.

Quote:

Williams, 51, who saw the notorious gang he co-founded with a childhood friend spawn copycats worldwide, denies committing the 1979 murders that put him on death row. He was convicted of killing a convenience store worker and, days later, killing two motel owners and their daughter during a robbery.

So where do you sit on this? Are you a proponent of Death Row...or are you against it? Should Williams get clemency?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051126/...NlYwMlJVRPUCUl

transplant99 · 11-26-2005, 03:10 PM

The death penalty is such a spiders web for me.

Without question there are people that deserve to never breathe another breath in this world.

unfortunately, there are just too many instances of guys that were put to death, only to be found innocent of their crimes years later. That simply cannot happen.

However, with the advent of DNA evidence the last 15 years or so, its becoming increasingly easier to remove all doubt one way or another.

There are guys in the Canadian penal system that simply shouldn't be allowed to live any longer right now. Olsen, Bernardo, Pickton (though yet to see a trial and that would have to be necessary obviously) etc etc.

I see no reason to keep them alive at taxpayers expense when there isnt a chance in hell that they will ever be re-habed nor ever see the light of freedom again. Its a complete waste of money that "could" be used in so many more positive ways.

Its a tough debate and its just not black or white, but certainly is very gray.

FlamesAddiction · 11-26-2005, 03:18 PM

You know that if there is a death penalty, eventually some innocent people are bound to be convicted wrongly. I personally don't think that executing one wrongly convicted person is worth it even if it means killing the ones who deserve it (like Olsen or Bernardo). Make no mistake though, I totally believe they deserve it!

The judicial system is just not good enough to have the right to give a death penalty IMO.

metallicat · 11-26-2005, 03:47 PM

I don't think granting clemency is saying that he is innocent, so essentially he would still be guilty of his crimes, and unfortunately (or not), what one does after the crimes have been committed really doesn't mean anything. This man is no angel. Being a founding member of a gang and being found guilty of a quadruple murder is enough to keep him in my bad books for eternity...regardless of the number of childrens books he writes, or the number of Nobel Peace prizes he gets nominated for.

One thing is forsure though; I don't like the celebrity status this criminal scumbag is getting.

RougeUnderoos · 11-26-2005, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

You know that if there is a death penalty, eventually some innocent people are bound to be convicted wrongly. I personally don't think that executing one wrongly convicted person is worth it even if it means killing the ones who deserve it (like Olsen or Bernardo). Make no mistake though, I totally believe they deserve it!

The judicial system is just not good enough to have the right to give a death penalty IMO.

I read a story recently about some guy who was convicted for the rape and murder of a small girl, his niece. He was in the clink for a long time. His family (save his mother) of course abandoned him. Then it comes out that not only did they have the wrong guy, there was no guy at all. The girl died of natural causes.

If anyone deserves the gas, it's a guy that committed a crime like that, and if we had the death penalty in Canada, he'd be dead.

FireFly · 11-26-2005, 03:58 PM

A lot of people don't realize that it's more costly to have someone on death row than it is to keep them in jail forever.

RougeUnderoos · 11-26-2005, 04:32 PM

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/11/24/tho....ap/index.html

They are about to execute the 1000th person since they lifted the moratorium back in the 70's.

Lucky # 1000 has been convicted of murdering someone with a pair of scissors in a pool hall in Virginia.

DNA tests on the scissors used in the stabbing were inconclusive, and the scissors were later thrown away because of a lack of storage space.

Hmm.

Cowperson · 11-26-2005, 04:38 PM

Kill 'em all and let God sort 'em out . . . . just kidding.

For homicide against a peace officer or homicidal crimes of a particularly heinous and premeditated nature where a standard of overwhelming evidence is met . . . . . death.

In the case of Williams, his persistent denial might work against him if the evidence is overwhelming, in spite of his apparent good works of late.

Cowperson

transplant99 · 11-26-2005, 04:42 PM

Quote:

DNA tests on the scissors used in the stabbing were inconclusive, and the scissors were later thrown away because of a lack of storage space.

Now THAT is ridiculous.

WAYYY to many questions just with those two points to put someone to death. DNA evidence was "inconclusive"?? That's pretty rare in itself.

Jayems · 11-26-2005, 04:44 PM

strap em down and light em up.

RougeUnderoos · 11-26-2005, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by transplant99

Now THAT is ridiculous.

WAYYY to many questions just with those two points to put someone to death. DNA evidence was "inconclusive"?? That's pretty rare in itself.

Yeah that's the problem. I don't think that kind of thing is all that rare either. Also, your average death-row inmate didn't have the best and brightest lawyers to begin with. I read about one guy in Texas who was sentenced to death and sometimes his own lawyer was asleep in the courtroom.

I'm against the death penalty for various reasons but the fact that our justice systems/governments are so often inept, that's good enough for me.

Hack&Lube · 11-26-2005, 04:58 PM

There's a 25-year old Australian right now, who's scheduled to be EXECUTED BY HANGING on December 2nd, because he was caught smuggling heroin into Singapore to pay off loan sharks.

That's a horrible story, Austalia and the international courts are fighting to get him clemency but Singapore is not budging and is totally inflexible. Remember the 1994 caning and all the buzz around that? This is a HANGING (cruel, archaic, painful) for a small amount for a first-time drug offender from liberal democratic country!

Bobblehead · 11-26-2005, 05:29 PM

Too many people are found innocent after the fact. Serial killers should be put to death, but there cannot even be a shadow of a doubt.

Here is a quick Canadian recap of Canadian worngfully convicted. link

peter12 · 11-26-2005, 05:55 PM

Serial killers and multiple sex offenders.

duncan · 11-26-2005, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

Too many people are found innocent after the fact. Serial killers should be put to death, but there cannot even be a shadow of a doubt.

Here is a quick Canadian recap of Canadian worngfully convicted. link

Those cases were all prior to the adaptation of DNA evidence. They were exhonerated by the evidence that we are now using. If you want a recap, do one on repeat offenders, guys that committed heinous crimes, got out after 10-15 years, only to do it again. Lynda Shaw was murdered outside of London, Ontario, in 1990, her killer had served 12 years for 2 murders in the early 70's. A serial rapist spent 4 years in a youth facility in the mid-90's, was released, and proceded to rape 4 more women over the next 3 years. 4 years ago, a Fanshawe College student was murdered shortly after leaving a movie theatre, his killer had been released from jail the day before, after 4 years for manslaughter (he had plea bargained).

FlamesAddiction · 11-26-2005, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan

Those cases were all prior to the adaptation of DNA evidence. They were exhonerated by the evidence that we are now using. If you want a recap, do one on repeat offenders, guys that committed heinous crimes, got out after 10-15 years, only to do it again. Lynda Shaw was murdered outside of London, Ontario, in 1990, her killer had served 12 years for 2 murders in the early 70's. A serial rapist spent 4 years in a youth facility in the mid-90's, was released, and proceded to rape 4 more women over the next 3 years. 4 years ago, a Fanshawe College student was murdered shortly after leaving a movie theatre, his killer had been released from jail the day before, after 4 years for manslaughter (he had plea bargained).

Even today though, many are still convicted without DNA evidence playing a part in the trial.

But 12 years for 2 murders is way too short. I'm against the death penalty but am for longer sentences and less anemities.

RougeUnderoos · 11-26-2005, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duncan

Those cases were all prior to the adaptation of DNA evidence. They were exhonerated by the evidence that we are now using. If you want a recap, do one on repeat offenders, guys that committed heinous crimes, got out after 10-15 years, only to do it again. Lynda Shaw was murdered outside of London, Ontario, in 1990, her killer had served 12 years for 2 murders in the early 70's. A serial rapist spent 4 years in a youth facility in the mid-90's, was released, and proceded to rape 4 more women over the next 3 years. 4 years ago, a Fanshawe College student was murdered shortly after leaving a movie theatre, his killer had been released from jail the day before, after 4 years for manslaughter (he had plea bargained).

There isn't going to be DNA evidence in every case.

You can show me a list as long as my arm of guilty repeat offenders, it still won't change that innocent people could (and likely would have been) be executed. One thing it will do though is underscore how prone to making mistakes the justice system is.

CaptainCrunch · 11-26-2005, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

There's a 25-year old Australian right now, who's scheduled to be EXECUTED BY HANGING on December 2nd, because he was caught smuggling heroin into Singapore to pay off loan sharks.

That's a horrible story, Austalia and the international courts are fighting to get him clemency but Singapore is not budging and is totally inflexible. Remember the 1994 caning and all the buzz around that? This is a HANGING (cruel, archaic, painful) for a small amount for a first-time drug offender from liberal democratic country!

Sorry I have no trouble with whats happening there, Singapore put these laws in place because they used to have a horrible drug problem there, its posted at nearly entrance point that the penalties for drug crimes is extremely heavy. this guy was smuggling heroin which is one of the more distructive drugs into the country, he's getting what he deserves.

RougeUnderoos · 11-27-2005, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Sorry I have no trouble with whats happening there, Singapore put these laws in place because they used to have a horrible drug problem there, its posted at nearly entrance point that the penalties for drug crimes is extremely heavy. this guy was smuggling heroin which is one of the more distructive drugs into the country, he's getting what he deserves.

Since they have laws against it, that means it's okay that they hang the guy? What is this, the wild west?

If he's getting what he deserves, do you think a heroin smuggler in Canada should be hung?

CaptainCrunch · 11-27-2005, 09:31 AM

Yes to killing the heroin smuggler being shot or hung or whatever.

The person being hung made a choice to break a law that is a death penalty offense, and he did it for a selfish reason, so yes, sad as it is, he should be hung.

Are you saying that you would have problem with someone being hung for abducting a child for money.

Or someone being lethally injected for a murder for hire crime?

Yes the method is rough, but its the law of the land, and this person knew that drug crimes in Singapore are handled in this way. He took his chances and he lost.