Dealership; Used cars

[billybob123]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Maybe it's different when you're married or something, but the only vehicle I would ever shop for with my SO would be a mini-van. Anything else and she can buy it herself.

When my wife wanted to buy a new car (and one that I already thought was way too expensive) she asked me to negotiate with the dealer for her. I signed up for a carcostcanada account so I had ammunition ahead of the deal. This was all precipitated by my getting hosed on buying my own car where I did everything everyone is warning about (no all-in price, didn't know the margins before etc) so this person was going to get it from me. They even put us in the sales manager's office (dumb mistake -- they had sales figures for every rep posted on a whiteboard so I knew our rep hadn't sold a car in two weeks and the dealership had sold something like 10 cars in the two weeks).

I had to tell my wife to leave - she was starting to nag me to accept the offer. "Listen, you can either stay and listen to me negotiate, or you can leave. Either way, stop talking." She was annoyed, but we got the car for even less than I thought we would pay.

Same story for our house. I told her to leave it to me. And the same thing happened!

Sometimes just tell them to leave the room!

[Calgary '89]

Originally Posted by fotze

You're lebanese?

Dude you're a serious dbag aren't you? I also heard you're a midget.

[pylon]

On Captains comments. Thanks for the shout, I always look after people I respect. Whenever I deal with friends or family, it is a no haggle experience. I consider the posters on this boards friends, as I communicate more with you guys than a lot of my friends with busy lives and families. That being said, I only dish up one price, and one price only in those situations. If it is not good enough for you, then there is a trust problem.

As far as regular repeat clientele goes... not everyone is a cheap ass. I work in the finance dept now, but still have a few clients a month come in to buy cars from me as they have bought from me in the past, some numerous times, and know they won't get jerked around, and lied to. A lot of these people are perfectly willing to pay a little more to get the so called "good guy" treatment. People aren't dumb, and I will always give a courtesy discount, but I will not drop my pants. You want to deal with the guy that has been in the same place for 10 years, can pull strings when you need the service, will not feed you bs, and will make sure you are taken care of after the sale.... Sure it might cost you a couple hundred bucks more than the guy across town, but not everyone is so tight that they are not willing to pay for that level of trust and consideration in the deal. I have had customers pay full price for cars because they know they will have a completely trouble free transaction.

I am the same. They guys I buy my bikes from, once every couple years, I wake up and say ,"Its time for a new bike." I'll make a call at 9:00 am, tell them what I want, ask them what they'll give me for trade on mine, as they know my bikes intimately, and give them a credit card payment for the difference by noon. No haggle, I've known em for 20 years and trust them. Sure I could beat them up for a few more bucks, but I like the idea of being able to jump the queue in the svc dept, and get first dibs on the bike show specials.

I have my guy at Vistek, no haggle. He'll check the big competitors prices on a lens or body, make sure the price is matched within reason, and will even drop it off for me because he knows my hours are tough to get in there. I never gripe about paying a few extra dollars for that type of treatment.

Sometimes good service is worth a few extra dollars. And usually the best highest volume salespeople, have the best margins on what they sell because of it. There is a saying, you catch more flies with honey than vinegar.

I can 100% tell you guys this with confidence, and you will not like it. The guy that comes in with the Carcost Canada sheet, haggles like an a-hole, disprespects the sales guy, and has a lot lawyer with him, pays MORE almost every time, even though he brags to his buddies on what a great deal he got, and how he owned that salesman. The nice courteous people, that do business in a civil manner, and present their offer with a logical argument, will always get the best deal. I have seen sales managers desk deals with sales guys and ask ,"Does this guy deserve this deal, or has he been an a-hole to you?" And rejected offers strictly on the latter. I have seen the complete opposite where you have someone completely clueless on what they are doing, and seen them give the customer more than what they were asking for to be fair, and win the good customers trust. The dicks are only usually good for one deal, never send in referrals, and typically cause more brain damage than you ever made on the original deal in service. The nice people are usually the complete opposite, and are the ones you absolutely want to make sure they are treated right. An apostle customer can be worth millions of dollars in business, the jerks are usually worthless for business.

[Sliver]

Since when does wanting the best price make you a dick? There are nice ways to negotiate and lame ways, but arming yourself with facts about a car before haggling make you smart, not a dbag.

Plus, although you're right the dealership only makes a couple hundred off the sale of a car, that's not the whole story. Dealerships also get paid by the manufacturer by meeting certain thresholds (eg. they'll get bonused less money for moving 100 units per month vs moving 150 per month). So to the buyers, don't worry about being a tough negotiator, the owners of these dealerships are filthy rich (the two I know, anyway) and will make money on you beyond the mark up on the price of your car. A sales guy I know also gets compensated based on the number of units he sells per month on top of a commission on each vehicle but I don't know if this is standard practice.

Pylon, do dealerships get paid a commission by a lender as well when a lease or financing is set up? I think so.

Edit^ I'm talking about new cars here.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Calgary '89

Dude you're a serious dbag aren't you? I also heard you're a midget.

Do not feed the fotze.

[Deegee]

Silver, we purchase some dealer financing at my place of employment and we pay a dealer reserve for each financing deal that goes to the dealer. On $20,000 financing, we pay about $550 be it new or used. The higher the financing request, the higher the reserve paid.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Since when does wanting the best price make you a dick? There are nice ways to negotiate and lame ways, but arming yourself with facts about a car before haggling make you smart, not a dbag.

Exactly my point. People do not have to be a dick to get there, however a large majority of those hagglers tend to fall in that category, and they don't realize their hard attitude is actually hurting their cause. Best price however, does not guarantee the best service or experience. Example... go stay at The Wynn in Las Vages. Get a resort suite, and get a VIP Tower suite. The rooms are virtually identical, but tell me which one provides you with a better experience. And the price difference isn't that big.

Plus, although you're right the dealership only makes a couple hundred off the sale of a car, that's not the whole story. Dealerships also get paid by the manufacturer by meeting certain thresholds (eg. they'll get bonused less money for moving 100 units per month vs moving 150 per month).

Yes and no. You have to remember if they fail to meet those targets, they are left holding a bag, and get nothing. So it is more a bonus to the dealer, not the customer, and is never factored in to the end bottom line. It is not a static number that can be used.

So to the buyers, don't worry about being a tough negotiator, the owners of these dealerships are filthy rich (the two I know, anyway) and will make money on you beyond the mark up on the price of your car. A sales guy I know also gets compensated based on the number of units he sells per month on top of a commission on each vehicle but I don't know if this is standard practice.

Although a lot of the owners are filthy rich, that money is not typically made on the new car sales side, typically service and parts, where for whatever reason people don't negotitate. The markup on some major repairs, can exceed the markup on the sale of a $50,000 car.

Pylon, do dealerships get paid a commission by a lender as well when a lease or financing is set up? I think so.

Yes. When we deal with the major commerical banks the reserve can be pretty good. I would say usually avergaging about what was quoted earlier. However, 90% of our financing is captive, meaning the manufacturers in house lender is used, using subvented rates, in our case VW credit. The absolute maximum I can earn on a new car deal is $100 on those no matter the amount financed, which account for virtually all of our new and used business. The only stuff that filters to the regular lenders is off make used, or people that are credit challenged. In most of those cases the reserves on those deals are still low, as we typically will use the banks lowest rates, to keep the deal as close to the subvented rates from VW. Those usually only pay a couple hundred bucks. Where my department makes its money is on warranties, loan insurance, and protection items like 3M etc. The days of making money on the money are long since gone for most dealers.

The biggest chuckle I do get though is when I get people in my office telling me how unreasonable a 4.9% closed rate on a car loan is. "I only pay 3.75% on my 35 year mortgage!!" I will promptly pull up an loan interest calculator and show them how "good" of a deal that is lol. I swear I almost had a lady faint once when she realized 84% of her $1370 mortgage payment was going straight to interest. It amazes me how little people know about the terms of their largest investment.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by pylon

The biggest chuckle I do get though is when I get people in my office telling me how unreasonable a 4.9% closed rate on a car loan is. "I only pay 3.75% on my 35 year mortgage!!" I will promptly pull up an loan interest calculator and show them how "good" of a deal that is lol. I swear I almost had a lady faint once when she realized 84% of her $1370 mortgage payment was going straight to interest. It amazes me how little people know about the terms of their largest investment.

Probably the same people that call investing $10,000 in indexed funds, 'risky' all the while having no problem with only slapping 7% down on a house with a $500,000 35-year mortgage. People in general are financially inept.

[Calgary '89]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Since when does wanting the best price make you a dick? There are nice ways to negotiate and lame ways, but arming yourself with facts about a car before haggling make you smart, not a dbag.

Plus, although you're right the dealership only makes a couple hundred off the sale of a car, that's not the whole story. Dealerships also get paid by the manufacturer by meeting certain thresholds (eg. they'll get bonused less money for moving 100 units per month vs moving 150 per month). So to the buyers, don't worry about being a tough negotiator, the owners of these dealerships are filthy rich (the two I know, anyway) and will make money on you beyond the mark up on the price of your car. A sales guy I know also gets compensated based on the number of units he sells per month on top of a commission on each vehicle but I don't know if this is standard practice.

Pylon, do dealerships get paid a commission by a lender as well when a lease or financing is set up? I think so.

Edit^ I'm talking about new cars here.

Definitely not standard practice. You think customers get nickel-and-dimed? Ask a salesperson.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by pylon

Try making an offer on a house without a deposit.

If you make an offer on a house and they don't accept it do you get your deposit back? How about the system you are proposing?

[MacDaddy77]

Originally Posted by pylon

Exactly my point. People do not have to be a dick to get there, however a large majority of those hagglers tend to fall in that category, and they don't realize their hard attitude is actually hurting their cause. Best price however, does not guarantee the best service or experience. Example... go stay at The Wynn in Las Vages. Get a resort suite, and get a VIP Tower suite. The rooms are virtually identical, but tell me which one provides you with a better experience. And the price difference isn't that big.



Yes and no. You have to remember if they fail to meet those targets, they are left holding a bag, and get nothing. So it is more a bonus to the dealer, not the customer, and is never factored in to the end bottom line. It is not a static number that can be used.



Although a lot of the owners are filthy rich, that money is not typically made on the new car sales side, typically service and parts, where for whatever reason people don't negotitate. The markup on some major repairs, can exceed the markup on the sale of a $50,000 car.



Yes. When we deal with the major commerical banks the reserve can be pretty good. I would say usually avergaging about what was quoted earlier. However, 90% of our financing is captive, meaning the manufacturers in house lender is used, using subvented rates, in our case VW credit. The absolute maximum I can earn on a new car deal is $100 on those no matter the amount financed, which account for virtually all of our new and used business. The only stuff that filters to the regular lenders is off make used, or people that are credit challenged. In most of those cases the reserves on those deals are still low, as we typically will use the banks lowest rates, to keep the deal as close to the subvented rates from VW. Those usually only pay a couple hundred bucks. Where my department makes its money is on warranties, loan insurance, and protection items like 3M etc. The days of making money on the money are long since gone for most dealers.

The biggest chuckle I do get though is when I get people in my office telling me how unreasonable a 4.9% closed rate on a car loan is. "I only pay 3.75% on my 35 year mortgage!!" I will promptly pull up an loan interest calculator and show them how "good" of a deal that is lol. I swear I almost had a lady faint once when she realized 84% of her $1370 mortgage payment was going straight to interest. It amazes me how little people know about the terms of their largest investment.

I have been reading this thread with interest as we are looking at purchasing a new Minivan.. I would be interested in getting a pm with you for your best price on the Routan

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Rathji

If you make an offer on a house and they don't accept it do you get your deposit back? How about the system you are proposing?

Dealers never keep a deposit if the terms are not agreed upon. Reputable ones at least. Again as I have repeated numerous times, it typically weeds out the real buyers from the pretend ones. However, if you leave a deposit, the deal is agreed to, you get finance approval, the dealer gets the car ready for delivery, installs a buch of accessories, tints the thing, and puts some gay-ass spoiler on the car, do you really think you should get it back because you changed your mind?

[JustAnotherGuy]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

I've never purchased a vehicle from a stealership before, but having watched my Dad and Mum a few times over the years I can say in all honesty that I will never ever vehicle shop with my SO. At least three times my Dad has ended up having to purchase some complete POS just because Mum "loves it!" Its how they ended up with a PT Cruiser convertable, a 27ft trailer they've never used, and my Mum always taking my Dad's truck to drive (the only "toy" I can ever recall him buying himself other than a new computer once in a while) rather than the car she forced him to buy for her.

Maybe it's different when you're married or something, but the only vehicle I would ever shop for with my SO would be a mini-van. Anything else and she can buy it herself.

Well, for the next vehicle I told her to go buy what she was wanted. Well not quite like that. I went with her a couple times and she narrowed it down to something she liked. I said sure, go for it. She came back with something that was much more expensive. Another 5 K or something. I don't remember exactly.

But back then I couldn't really say much. She was making a lot of money and so was I. So the money was not really an issue.