Dealership; Used cars

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

We are buying my wife's Mazda after her lease terminated this month. We are being charged !@#$ing $500.00 for the privilege of doing so. On top of all the other fees they are also going to stick us with this paperwork fee. We've paid 4 years of lease payments and are paying the full buyout price and we still have to eat another $500.00. No wonder people think car dealers are shady.

Did you try to negotiate?

[Sample00]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

We are buying my wife's Mazda after her lease terminated this month. We are being charged !@#$ing $500.00 for the privilege of doing so. On top of all the other fees they are also going to stick us with this paperwork fee. We've paid 4 years of lease payments and are paying the full buyout price and we still have to eat another $500.00. No wonder people think car dealers are shady.

Honest question for you. When you signed the lease on your new Mazda, did it say in the paperwork that you would have a $500.00 fee for paying out your lease? Did it give you any indication in your paperwork that you would have this fee?

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Did you try to negotiate?

Yes and it sounds as if the dealership is going to waive it by buying it themselves from Mazda and then I buy it from them? Sounds like more shenanigans to me. Shady.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Sample00

Honest question for you. When you signed the lease on your new Mazda, did it say in the paperwork that you would have a $500.00 fee for paying out your lease? Did it give you any indication in your paperwork that you would have this fee?

I would get it out and look, and if it doesn't say their charging that fee, I don't see how they could do so legally. If its in the fine print...

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by Sample00

Honest question for you. When you signed the lease on your new Mazda, did it say in the paperwork that you would have a $500.00 fee for paying out your lease? Did it give you any indication in your paperwork that you would have this fee?

I honestly don't know but I'm going to go through the initial paperwork when I get home. Be honest with me, is this basically a gouge?

[pylon]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

We are buying my wife's Mazda after her lease terminated this month. We are being charged !@#$ing $500.00 for the privilege of doing so. On top of all the other fees they are also going to stick us with this paperwork fee. We've paid 4 years of lease payments and are paying the full buyout price and we still have to eat another $500.00. No wonder people think car dealers are shady.

If it is listed in your original lease agreement, how is it shady? I have seen Mazda leases, and it is pretty clear on the document there is a purchase option fee. However if it is not listed on the agreement, they cannot charge it to you. If you had an issue with it, it should have been adressed before signing the lease.

However, if you intend to buy another Mazda in the future, make it known that you will not return to their dealer if they do not waive the fee, you just may get some traction with that.

You cannot however, blame the dealer, for your signing of a document which you negated to properly review. And that is not exclusive to a an automotive lease agreement. There are thousands of other documents that people probably don't properly review before signing them.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by pylon

There are thousands of other documents that people probably don't properly review before signing them.

In fairness, actually reading stuff tends to get you cursed at. I read the last mortgage I signed, and I thought they were going to tear me apart at the bank. It was ~60 pages. But knowing what you're agreeing to is a good thing. If the fee is in there, its worth asking nicely if they'll work with you on it. (Or give you a couple free oil changes or something.)

If the fee isn't in there, I'd ask, but it wouldn't be nicely.

[SportsJunky]

Originally Posted by pylon

If it is listed in your original lease agreement, how is it shady? I have seen Mazda leases, and it is pretty clear on the document there is a purchase option fee. However if it is not listed on the agreement, they cannot charge it to you. If you had an issue with it, it should have been adressed before signing the lease.

However, if you intend to buy another Mazda in the future, make it known that you will not return to their dealer if they do not waive the fee, you just may get some traction with that.

You cannot however, blame the dealer, for your signing of a document which you negated to properly review. And that is not exclusive to a an automotive lease agreement. There are thousands of other documents that people probably don't properly review before signing them.

Fair enough. I'm venting more than anything. It just seems that when they quote you the buyout price, that should be it. When you go in and sit down and all these other fees are tacked on, it becomes hard to leave there thinking you were treated fairly.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

Fair enough. I'm venting more than anything. It just seems that when they quote you the buyout price, that should be it. When you go in and sit down and all these other fees are tacked on, it becomes hard to leave there thinking you were treated fairly.

Check you pm.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

In fairness, actually reading stuff tends to get you cursed at. I read the last mortgage I signed, and I thought they were going to tear me apart at the bank. It was ~60 pages. But knowing what you're agreeing to is a good thing. If the fee is in there, its worth asking nicely if they'll work with you on it. (Or give you a couple free oil changes or something.)

If the fee isn't in there, I'd ask, but it wouldn't be nicely.

I asked RBC to send over my mortgage documents the day before to review before I signed them, and they had no issues whatsoever.

When I close out a loan agreement ort lease, I will not even hand a pen to a customer to sign the agreement until I have gone over every number on it. In the past I would set it down and people would blindly sign it. Some fiannce guys and gals still do that, but IMHO your just backing yourself into a potential corner 5 years later if everything isn't explained right.

[amorak]

I bought out my old GTI and was hosed by the dealership!

No wait, I wasn't! (Pylon helped me out wit that transaction, just buggin!)

Pylon: When the F*** will VW get a brain and put the 4motion in with the 2.0T on the passat CC? My wife wanted a CC, but without the AWD it was a no go (the 3.6L is a terrible motor, IMHO, the 2.0T is where it's at).

Audi ONLY sells the 2.0T in the A4 now, why is VW forcing me to take the 3.6 to get AWD....WHY!?

Now I have a '10 A4 Prestige in my garage and I want another auto AWD vehicle - the CC would be perfect, but now it's looking like an A5 2.0T Quattro due to the lack of a CC 2.0T 4Motion.
/rant off.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by pylon

When I close out a loan agreement ort lease, I will not even hand a pen to a customer to sign the agreement until I have gone over every number on it.

Smart. The ones who pressure people into signing stuff they haven't read are waiting for the lawsuit with their name on it to drop.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by amorak

I bought out my old GTI and was hosed by the dealership!

No wait, I wasn't! (Pylon helped me out wit that transaction, just buggin!)

Pylon: When the F*** will VW get a brain and put the 4motion in with the 2.0T on the passat CC? My wife wanted a CC, but without the AWD it was a no go (the 3.6L is a terrible motor, IMHO, the 2.0T is where it's at).

Audi ONLY sells the 2.0T in the A4 now, why is VW forcing me to take the 3.6 to get AWD....WHY!?

Now I have a '10 A4 Prestige in my garage and I want another auto AWD vehicle - the CC would be perfect, but now it's looking like an A5 2.0T Quattro due to the lack of a CC 2.0T 4Motion.
/rant off.

Trust me, me hear rants like that daily. Once the plant in Tenessee gets going it will add some more diversity to the line. However, with essentially what is a near economy / mid range priced line of cars, VW has to keep the line lean and trim to be able to keep the pricing at a reasonable level.

I get these weird Eastern europeans in here all the time. Da... yesss you get me AWD TDI Golf... with woodgrains trim... manual cranking window in back... power in front... and primer black painting finish. da?

Its very difficult for us to effectively deliver what they can in Europe.

[sworkhard]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

In fairness, actually reading stuff tends to get you cursed at. I read the last mortgage I signed, and I thought they were going to tear me apart at the bank. It was ~60 pages. But knowing what you're agreeing to is a good thing. If the fee is in there, its worth asking nicely if they'll work with you on it. (Or give you a couple free oil changes or something.)

If the fee isn't in there, I'd ask, but it wouldn't be nicely.

When we sell a house at our construction company, we read the entire agreement to the customer, to make sure they understand it, and that we can answer any questions they have. Usually takes a couple of hours to complete, but it makes it very clear what the customers and companies rights and responsibilities are. Saves many more times that in trouble due to misunderstandings.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by SportsJunky

Fair enough. I'm venting more than anything. It just seems that when they quote you the buyout price, that should be it. When you go in and sit down and all these other fees are tacked on, it becomes hard to leave there thinking you were treated fairly.

Exactly. This kind of crap really GMG. If something is $8,000 it's $8,000 plus tax. That's it. No funky $400 DOC fee, and $250 paperwork fee, and $100 rimjob fee. Just friggin tell me the bottom line.

At the end of a lease, the buyout should be the buyout. No extra fees. You said $16,000, well here's $16,000. I don't care what you have to do to get it to your bank, you said $16,000. Piss off.

[amorak]

Originally Posted by pylon

I get these weird Eastern europeans in here all the time. Da... yesss you get me AWD TDI Golf... with woodgrains trim... manual cranking window in back... power in front... and primer black painting finish. da?

I lol'ed.

a lot.

[Jake]

Didn't mean that as an insult Pylon.

My most recent car buying experience was terrible. The dealership had accepted and signed an offer. All of the money for the car was transferred to the dealer. They then proceeded to deny delivery of the car since they wanted to reduce the value of a trade-in, after the offer and money was accepted. They wanted $3000 more. They only gave me the car when I said I would take the signed paper work to a judge.

I'm sure there are a lot of stand up guys in the industry. Based on experience though, I know there are some that are the exact opposite. I understand they just want to make a profit, but there is a line.

[pylon]

Originally Posted by Jake

Didn't mean that as an insult Pylon.

My most recent car buying experience was terrible. The dealership had accepted and signed an offer. All of the money for the car was transferred to the dealer. They then proceeded to deny delivery of the car since they wanted to reduce the value of a trade-in, after the offer and money was accepted. They wanted $3000 more. They only gave me the car when I said I would take the signed paper work to a judge.

I'm sure there are a lot of stand up guys in the industry. Based on experience though, I know there are some that are the exact opposite. I understand they just want to make a profit, but there is a line.

And you did the right thing. No dealer should back out of a signed deal. Unless a time caveat has expired on it. Especially if the funds had already changed hands, there is no excuse whatsoever.

Look, I am not denying that there is still some BS that goes on. The big difference though is, Joe public has the backing of AMVIC now, so if aything gets out of hand, they will have your back. But it goes both ways. Dealers have, and will call them in as well when they feel they have been wronged or cheated.

All I know is our dealer / dealer group takes AMVIC and its regulations very seriously. For the few cases we have lost with them, there have been countless others where they have saved us from potential fraud coming our way. You can never keep every single customer happy. Especially when you're dealing in intricate machines with thousands of moving parts and electronic components. There are just too many variables that are out of our control. A lot of people forget, we don't build the thing, we just sell it.

The fact that cars are as reliable as they are is a miracle considering their complexity nowadays. Imagine if your car was as unreliable as your PC??! How can you anticipate some faulty gizmobang powering the whirlyspronk that doesn't show up on a diagnostic scan of any kind, is keeping a car holed up in the shop for three weeks? Those are the frustrating ones, and it sucks for both the customer and us.

However, I agree with you that sometimes we could do a better job at making the transaction itself a little less complex. But unfortunately, the way the industry has evolved with the total lack of trust from the customer side, and the information age where everyone knows our bottom line now, it has made a a lot of these fees, and add-ons, necessities. Sometimes its the only way a lot of dealers have left to make a buck on a sale, especially new car dealers dealing in margins that are in the hundreds of dollars on some of their models now, margins set by the manufacturer none the less. Saturn had it right, and so did toyota. It was fair for both sides. The dealer could make a fair margin, and your neighbor couldn't walk in and get a better deal than you simply because he was a better haggler. And it was awesome for resale value for the customers, as rebates, which are black book killers were pretty much non existent. Cars were being sold in real dollars, not inflated fictionalized ones.

Of course though... a small group in the public threatened to sue Toyota for collusion practices, and Access Toyota, which actually saved the customer more money on average, was ruined by that small group, that felt their given right to save an extra 200 bucks was being violated. And Toyota didn't think it was worth the fight. It was almost like your parents cancelling your birthday party because you were a jerk. A great thing for the masses, was ruined by a small group of idiots. The dealers loved it, the customers loved it, and most transactions were butter smooth on both ends. Had Access Toyota survived as a business model, it could have revolutionized the car industry and cleaned it up in N/A as most manufacturers would have followed suit.

[Deegee]

Originally Posted by pylon

I have said it before, and I will say it again. If I lied, and cheated, to any single one of my customers, as much as I am lied to and cheated on a DAILY basis, by people that sit in my office. I would be in jail. I had one guy that lied to me on credit applications about his income, had his car repo'd and then turned around and claimed the application wasn't valid, and I botched the numbers to get them approved. A blatant lie. Try explaining that bs to one of your top lenders.

The business in general is kind of to blame as we receive some dealership loans at my place of employment and it amazes me in general how often proof of income is outright waived for credit approvals, especially when approving 100% P/P financing on a used vehicle.

It's no surprise that people lie when the system itself often doesn't include checks.

[JustAnotherGuy]

Way back when I bought a new car as we negotiated the final price we agree on the amount. I said. "This is the final price. There is nothing else added to it." He said yes. I asked this question about 5 times. Enough times that both him and my wife were getting annoyed at me. The answer was always. This is the final price.

So we said. Okay. We will take the van. He did the paperwork and the price was over a $1000 more than we had just negotiated. He said.. "Of course there are extra fees and such." lol...

Anyway, I stood up to walk away from the deal. But of course the wife talked me out of it because she liked the van so much.