Native Americans sue U.S. over solar power plant in desert

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Were your parents, beaten, raped and abused?

No I was.

A person needs to chose to be a victim or not.

To many welfare pimps

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by EtchySketch9

A lot of you seriously need to get educated; when you've experienced what it's like to have everything taken away from you maybe then you'll have an ounce of compassion.

Maybe this is in poor form to quote you twice but this part of your post needs to be picked on.

How about you let me know what it's like to have everything taken away?

Oh, that's right you can't because you've had nothing taken away. And it doesn't even matter if you're native or not because you still don't know. How could you? Your great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather had something taken from him. Something I'm sure you know nothing about because it is so far removed from you. In fact it is incredibly disingenuous to even suggest that you have any idea what it was like for you ancestor to have his land taken away, women raped etc.

For you to attempt to downplay the plight of natives actually kind of sickens me. Self inflicted or not natives are in a hell of a lot of trouble even if "lots of them" as you suggest aren't part of the problem.

If you support the current way natives are treated and treat themselves then you are just ignoring a massive problem.


If my posts come off as catty and kind of angry it is because I am. Like others I freely admit I am racist against natives. I wouldn't say it is by choice. I was just raised in an environment where natives were basically the scum of the earth. However, I am cognisant enough of my racism to know that it isn't founded on a hatred for natives. It is founded on a disgust for how they treat themselves and how the government has no problem funding and aiding that mistreatment. White, black, asian whatever I don't like seeing my fellow Canadians waste billions of dollars a year only to have the $$ actually hurt them. I'm not against welfare or government funding for homeless shelters, affordable housing or even programs to promote native history and culture. I am against that money doing none of those things and it really grinds my gears to hear someone try and say that our tax dollars are well spent or that there arent' huge social problems with natives or that there is no problem with natives or that somehow colonialism, all 500 years later, is still at fault.

[SeeBass]

The Soiux killed raped and stole the land from the Ojibaway and drove them out of the plains into the woods. Now the Souix profit from that conquest.

The white people are not alone, this is nothing new.

The natives did it to each other until a new bully came along and did it to them. Yeah it sucks but that is the human race and struggle of the fittest at work.

[theonlywhiteout]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Were your parents, beaten, raped and abused?

The suffering of my grandmother at the hands of Nazis and my grandfathers torture he endured from the soviets are none of your business, no offense. All you need to know is thy were both brave hard working Ppl who adjusted to western life and culture.

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by EtchySketch9

And it just amazes me how someone can share some story about their parents who fleed to Canada and then turn around and try to compare those "hardships" to the total colonization of an entire race of people who were minding their own business here long before everything was stolen from them.

Why can't you show compassion for both? They're both traumatic for the people experiencing them. Having your life turned completely upside down running away from your homeland is very similar to your life being uprooted in front of you. My grandfather immigrated to Canada alone with nothing when he was a young teenager, and spent his first week in Ontario living in a ditch on the side of a road. Should I say "cool story gramps" and shrug it off "you don't have it as hard as they did"?

It seems ignorant to ignore the plight of someone because someone else might have had it worse.

[theonlywhiteout]

Originally Posted by EtchySketch9

And it just amazes me how someone can share some story about their parents who fleed to Canada and then turn around and try to compare those "hardships" to the total colonization of an entire race of people who were minding their own business here long before everything was stolen from them. A lot of you seriously need to get educated; when you've experienced what it's like to have everything taken away from you maybe then you'll have an ounce of compassion. There is a such thing as compassion, is that something that just falls by the wayside these days? Some of the conversations (and assumptions) in this thread are really quite disgusting.

I'm sorry but did you just really do that? "hardships"? Yeah... Stalin and Hitler were a real pain in the butt to say the least. unreal

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by theonlywhiteout

The suffering of my grandmother at the hands of Nazis and my grandfathers torture he endured from the soviets are none of your business, no offense. All you need to know is thy were both brave hard working Ppl who adjusted to western life and culture.

You brought your parents up as an example, not me, and therefore, their background is relevant.

And my point still stands, I suspect your parents would never trust the nazis or soviets again.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by Mazrim

Frink, I respect you a lot and your posts, so don't take this the wrong way, but in my opinion a lot of it is self-inflicted by many first nations people. This isn't mainly some "we saw it on TV and so we think it's this", but for many of us we've seen it first hand and I think it's fair to form an opinion of it based on that. To assume that some of these sarcastic posts are ignorant of the so-called truths of the situation would be incorrect, though I'm sure some might be.

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

You're really surprised by the mainstream attitude?

To clarify my post a bit, I'm surprised at the level of acceptance and overtness of the commentary. I'd be naive to think that people don't have prejudices and that some have at least halfway-valid reasons behind them. I'm just surprised that discriminatory comments about this particular group of people are seemingly more fair game in mainstream society than almost every other group.

[VO #23]

The nub of a lot of these threads seems to boil down to blame and guilt. The privileged (relatively speaking) whites who have never been silently discriminated against rail against the "unfairness" that they are paying for the sins of their forefathers. Which is completely untrue. We as Canadians are collectively honouring the treaties ratified for access to the land. These rights are now entrenched both constitutionally and as sui generis rights. They aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

Another line of argumentation usually begins with "look at how these people treat themselves...etc". This is broadly recognized as a cycle of poverty and violence that came about through a systematic attempt to eliminate their culture (a hallmark feature of the test for "genocide" in international criminal law, by the way), for crying out loud. It's not surprising that many Aboriginal peoples reject their culture - many, many of those in their previous generations were taught to do this as well, but at residential schools. It has now been transmitted down through generations. The policies of long-dead government officials have come home to roost.

This really isn't meant to come off as preachy or uppity - I too come from middle class, white, prairie stock. But it is amazing how far a little bit of perspective and compassion can go in analyzing probably the biggest issue Canadians face as a collective. We're all in this together, folks.

[theonlywhiteout]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

You brought your parents up as an example, not me, and therefore, their background is relevant.

And my point still stands, I suspect your parents would never trust the nazis or soviets again.

Such a bad example.

[Yeah_Baby]

You guys realize that conceptually the idea of 'time' is drastically different in many First Nations cultures than it is the modernest sense. It isn't linear. The past, present and future are elements that live and impact today. All exist within one giant circle of existence. It isn't a time line like we look at it. Therefore to tell such a distinct paradigm to get the frack over what happened two generations ago is asinine when the concept of time doesn't work like that.

Aboriginal Issues in Canada go so much deeper than White guilt or welfare bums. But whatever go ahead and live in your bigoted ignorance.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

You guys realize that conceptually the idea of 'time' is drastically different in many First Nations cultures than it is the modernest sense. It isn't linear. The past, present and future are elements that live and impact today. All exist within one giant circle of existence. It isn't a time line like we look at it. Therefore to tell such a distinct paradigm to get the frack over what happened two generations ago is asinine when the concept of time doesn't work like that.

Aboriginal Issues in Canada go so much deeper than White guilt or welfare bums. But whatever go ahead and live in your bigoted ignorance.

what the hell are you talking about?

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

what the hell are you talking about?

There seemed to be a consensus that residential schools are a trigger issue in terms of native issues. A point was raised to 'get over it'. I meant to argue that conceptually you can't 'get over it' because the past lives within the present more so in a lot of native cultures.


mmmmkay.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

What a racist thought.

It is no more racist that auditing that should be going on, whenever public money is spent.

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

There seemed to be a consensus that residential schools are a trigger issue in terms of native issues. A point was raised to 'get over it'. I meant to argue that conceptually you can't 'get over it' because the past lives within the present more so in a lot of native cultures.


mmmmkay.

not smoking peyote will probably fix all that past lives in present day ones BS.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

not smoking peyote will probably fix all that past lives in present day ones BS.

Great post! Do you insult every other metaphysic framework that you don't subscribe too?


Ethnocentric bull if you ask me.

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

Great post! Do you insult every other metaphysic framework that you don't subscribe too?


Ethnocentric bull if you ask me.

Actually I'd love to hear more about this. Like I mentioned in an earlier post I grew up with Native peoples and I've never once heard that 'the past lives in the present' kind of thing. The only time I've seen or heard of it is in books or TV with shape shifting Medicine Men - all under the influence of mind altering substances.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

You brought your parents up as an example, not me, and therefore, their background is relevant.

And my point still stands, I suspect your parents would never trust the nazis or soviets again.

Do you think they would never trust Russians or Germans again?

[theonlywhiteout]

Originally Posted by Yeah_Baby

You guys realize that conceptually the idea of 'time' is drastically different in many First Nations cultures than it is the modernest sense. It isn't linear. The past, present and future are elements that live and impact today. All exist within one giant circle of existence. It isn't a time line like we look at it. Therefore to tell such a distinct paradigm to get the frack over what happened two generations ago is asinine when the concept of time doesn't work like that.

Aboriginal Issues in Canada go so much deeper than White guilt or welfare bums. But whatever go ahead and live in your bigoted ignorance.

This post is equal parts horse manure and intellectual dishonesty. Someones needs to post the final scene from bill Madison for me while I'm at woek

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

Actually I'd love to hear more about this. Like I mentioned in an earlier post I grew up with Native peoples and I've never once heard that 'the past lives in the present' kind of thing. The only time I've seen or heard of it is in books or TV with shape shifting Medicine Men - all under the influence of mind altering substances.

I've heard it from native people not on TV and not tripping balls. But thanks