One Term President or Not?

[Calgaryborn]

Maybe Obama can offer health care waivers to anyone still willing to vote for him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=96Uu_tI0hTw

[HotHotHeat]

It's utterly mind boggling to me that people still think that Republicans are the fiscally responsible party that is going to fix the 'big spending problems' of the current administration.

Obama's popularity has fallen because American people think that magical wands can fix economic problems that took 8 years to create (probably longer as Clintons second term was the beginning of deregulation). It's easy to say 'the people have rejected Obama!'... But I refuse to think that people (on this board at least) aren't smart enough to see that they haven't rejected him, they've told him they want results.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

The GOP is corrupt and the Democrats are clean, wholesome and only have our best interests at heart?

I can't believe you're the one who typed this. I really can't.

No. The Democrats are corrupt too, just not totally. I have a pretty pessimistic view of the United States political situation. I am a leftist but I'd love a right wing party full of Ron Pauls or pre-2006 John McCains. I just don't see how the Republicans deserve to be considered politicians who have the peoples interest in mind.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

No. The Democrats are corrupt too, just not totally. I have a pretty pessimistic view of the United States political situation. I am a leftist but I'd love a right wing party full of Ron Pauls or pre-2006 John McCains. I just don't see how the Republicans deserve to be considered politicians who have the peoples interest in mind.

None of them do. You're correct.

[d_phaneuf]

I dono how you can't say one side is more corrupt then the other but they are both corrupt, corrupt is corrupt, not everyone in each party is but likely everyone that matters is and that's how they got to a position where they matter

the problem with US politics, and pretty much politics everywhere, is that there are only 2 goals for the candidates

get elected, beat the other side

the good of the public doesn't seem to matter, and in the US both sides are guilty of that and both sides have a large majority of their members who only see thing's through their ideological lens

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by diane_phaneuf

I dono how you can't say one side is more corrupt then the other but they are both corrupt, corrupt is corrupt, not everyone in each party is but likely everyone that matters is and that's how they got to a position where they matter

the problem with US politics, and pretty much politics everywhere, is that there are only 2 goals for the candidates

get elected, beat the other side

the good of the public doesn't seem to matter, and in the US both sides are guilty of that and both sides have a large majority of their members who only see thing's through their ideological lens

This is a lazy, general observation. It's generally true that both sides of the political spectrum have their corruption, but due to the nature of American Politics and how tied it is to money it is different. The Democrats have made some attempt in the last decade to legislate with the people in mind (albeit with huge concessions to big business). The Republicans have not. All their ideas or bills they propose solve none of the actual problems. Earmark reform? Welcome to 1% of Federal spending.

Name one piece of Republican legislation proposed in the last 5 years that would solve America's healthcare, financial, energy, or education crisis. Beyond Ron Paul's auditing the Fed.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

The GOP is corrupt and the Democrats are clean, wholesome and only have our best interests at heart?

I can't believe you're the one who typed this. I really can't.

Same here.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

It's utterly mind boggling to me that people still think that Republicans are the fiscally responsible party that is going to fix the 'big spending problems' of the current administration.

Obama's popularity has fallen because American people think that magical wands can fix economic problems that took 8 years to create (probably longer as Clintons second term was the beginning of deregulation). It's easy to say 'the people have rejected Obama!'... But I refuse to think that people (on this board at least) aren't smart enough to see that they haven't rejected him, they've told him they want results.

Who has said that the Republicans will be fiscally responsible? Point out one comment in this thread that reflects that.

Personally I think the one thing nobody is thinking about are the blue-dogs. IMO they will be the ones who will bring the US back on track.

[HotHotHeat]

Originally Posted by Azure

Who has said that the Republicans will be fiscally responsible? Point out one comment in this thread that reflects that.

Personally I think the one thing nobody is thinking about are the blue-dogs. IMO they will be the ones who will bring the US back on track.

Was referring to the US electorate in general, not anyone on the board - Although, I'm sure a few would argue it.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

Was referring to the US electorate in general, not anyone on the board - Although, I'm sure a few would argue it.

There is no denying that the 'tea party' element of the Republican Party does seem to at least WANT to be fiscally responsible. Will they be? Remains to be seen given as they have never governed.

The Democrats aren't fiscally responsible either. In fact since 2006 a Democratic controlled Congress has been spending like crazy. But like the tea party part of the Republicans, there is a faction within the Democrat party that would be fiscally responsible.

Question is will idiots like Pelosi and Reid step aside and let them govern.

[Weiser Wonder]

Why is Pelosi an idiot Azure? You keep saying it but never back it up.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Obama should be a one term president, but I could see Americans rallying around him if another "terrorist attack" should happen.....

They have happened.

They've just not been very successful.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

Why is Pelosi an idiot Azure? You keep saying it but never back it up.

Don't spoil the narrative.

[HotHotHeat]

Wait til Mikey the teabagger just suggest that any terrorist attack in the next 2 years is an inside job? Sure do hope so.

[Devils'Advocate]

While the health care bill was watered down to be far more complicated and not nearly as useful as it should have been, at least it:
- prevents insurance companies from denying insurance because of pre-existing conditions
- allows children to be covered by their parents insurance until the age of 26
- cut prescription drug costs for medicare recipients by 50%

Also, he has extended benefits to same-sex partners of federal employees, expanded hate crime laws to include sexual orientation, increased funding for the "Violence Against Women Act", added funding for mental health professionals to the Veterans Administration budget and created the department of the Chief Technology Officer to promote scientific advancement.

I don't think Obama corrupt. I think he got into politics to do the right things. I think he genuinely cares about his country and the people that live in it. HOWEVER, I don't think he knows how things get done in Washington or how to get real results. In the last two years he should have been able to hammer through sweeping changes across the board and he stupidly tried to negotiate with the Republicans and blue-dog Democrats and everything got tied up in committees. I think the Democrats being swept out in the mid-term elections is more out of anger on lack of progress towards desired goals rather than a statement that they don't want those desired goals. Obama promised change and for the most part, they got more of the same.

Those claiming Obama to be fiscally irresponsible based on the increased debt load over the past 2 years - how much of that was actually part of the bailout monies that Bush pushed through Paulson?

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by HotHotHeat

It's utterly mind boggling to me that people still think that Republicans are the fiscally responsible party that is going to fix the 'big spending problems' of the current administration.

Obama's popularity has fallen because American people think that magical wands can fix economic problems that took 8 years to create (probably longer as Clintons second term was the beginning of deregulation). It's easy to say 'the people have rejected Obama!'... But I refuse to think that people (on this board at least) aren't smart enough to see that they haven't rejected him, they've told him they want results.

It's utterly mind boggling to me that people still do not understand what started and fueled the financial crisis and blame it on mythical deregulation.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

It's utterly mind boggling to me that people still do not understand what started and fueled the financial crisis and blame it on mythical deregulation.

What was it then? It was probably overregulation because that's the only way the collapse fits properly into FOL's worldview. Which we all know is the correct one.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

What was it then? It was probably overregulation because that's the only way the collapse fits properly into FOL's worldview. Which we all know is the correct one.

- artificially low interest rates (as low as 1% so when you take inflation into account they are actually negative!)
- Clinton's government policy of a free lunch (subprime mortgages to people who couldn't afford them because hey we're liberal we'll give everyone a house even if we have to bankrupt the country in the process!)
- belief that we can live off newly created fiat money and every time the bubble is about to burst we need to further inflate it by lending out more money
- inability to comprehend what happened - malinvestment, refusal to let the market correct itself and subsequent worsening of the problem (bailouts, moral hazard etc)

But yeah keep thinking thats it's just "my world"

[Devils'Advocate]

Wow. In your world artificially low interest rates and subprime mortgages were allowed due to "overregulation"?

The "lending out more money" wasn't Obama's idea. BTW - actually going into debt to pull out of a recession is actually a quite common practice... but I'm sure you will never, ever vote for Harper and the Conservatives based on their deficit spending during this recession, eh?

And you firmly believe that the market would have corrected itself? I think there are plenty of economic experts that would disagree with you. But even if you are correct, the bailouts where put in place by George W. Bush.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Wow. In your world artificially low interest rates and subprime mortgages were allowed due to "overregulation"?

I have no idea what this means. Honestly.

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

The "lending out more money" wasn't Obama's idea. BTW - actually going into debt to pull out of a recession is actually a quite common practice... but I'm sure you will never, ever vote for Harper and the Conservatives based on their deficit spending during this recession, eh?

Recession happens when the market "realizes" that malinvestment has accumulated in the economy and reached critical mass, in other words when market realizes that investments are not backed by savings ("real" resources). Prices will come back to Earth, companies and investors who made wrong decisions (although largely based on distorted market signals - government/FED interventions) will lose their money, what's wrong with that?

Near zero interest rates and deficit spending give the illusion that the economy has abundance of resources, when in fact in only has abundance of green papers.

Yes, going further into debt is a common practice just like keeping on drinking when you are already drunk is a common practice too. Doesn't really mean its smart, does it?

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

And you firmly believe that the market would have corrected itself? I think there are plenty of economic experts that would disagree with you. But even if you are correct, the bailouts where put in place by George W. Bush.

Yes the market will correct itself, but of course it will be costly and it will take longer. And of course once that happens, you guys will give credit to Barrack so he could say "I saved the economy Obamaself."