11-13-2010, 06:29 PM
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#141
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Creston
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda
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2Pe 3:8-10 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Don't confuse longsuffering with inability.
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11-13-2010, 06:38 PM
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#142
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgaryborn
2Pe 3:8-10 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
Don't confuse longsuffering with inability.
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Hmmmm, Jesus always said he loved us, so I think he is probably a pretty good guy, but I think his old man sounds like a real dick.
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11-13-2010, 06:47 PM
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#143
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Creston
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeBass
Hmmmm, Jesus always said he loved us, so I think he is probably a pretty good guy, but I think his old man sounds like a real dick.
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You really don't know much about either of them do you?
Jesus said:
Joh 3:16-18For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Edited to add:
Mat 24:42-44 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
It is Jesus who will return with judgment.
Last edited by Calgaryborn; 11-13-2010 at 07:04 PM.
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11-13-2010, 07:23 PM
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#144
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All I can get
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coys1882
My only point in this whole thread is that I'm finding Atheists becoming as intolerant and aggressive as some of the more aggressive religious door knockers. Both sides are equally annoying and offensive. Maybe it's because, just like anything, as more people join the higher the number of jackasses there are become that lunatic fringe.
If believing in the teachings of the bible makes you a better person - do it.
If believing that an omniscient entity is absurd but you can still live your life by moral social standards - do it.
Atheist, Bapist, Jehovah's Witness, Jedi - Respect and tolerance, everything else is people trying to long c*ck each other.
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Oh please.
Ideas are meant to be dissected in a free society. Bad ideas are unworthy of respect.
People's belief systems are fair game for criticism and even mockery. It's in no way impeding anyones rights to worship as they please.
You are equally free to disengage from these conversations at any time.
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11-13-2010, 07:28 PM
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#145
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop
Oh please.
Ideas are meant to be dissected in a free society. Bad ideas are unworthy of respect.
People's belief systems are fair game for criticism and even mockery. It's in no way impeding anyones rights to worship as they please.
You are equally free to disengage from these conversations at any time.
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Haha - you sir are a real gem. Continue to furiously masturbate while posting in this thread.
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11-13-2010, 07:29 PM
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#146
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chair
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coys1882
If believing in the teachings of the bible makes you a better person - do it.
If believing that an omniscient entity is absurd but you can still live your life by moral social standards - do it.
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I've got to admit that this disturbs me a bit. 
You should believe something because it is true, not because it's useful.
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11-13-2010, 07:32 PM
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#147
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgaryborn
You really don't know much about either of them do you?
Jesus said:
Joh 3:16-18For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Edited to add:
Mat 24:42-44 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
It is Jesus who will return with judgment.
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3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
"God so loved the world, that he gave his His only begotten Son."
As an example to parents everywhere and to save the world (from himself), God had his own son tortured and killed.
3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
"He that believeth not is condemned already."
Those who, for whatever reason, do not believe in Jesus will be tormented forever in hell.
Nice. Such a wonderful message to teach your children.
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11-13-2010, 07:33 PM
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#148
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Day Tripper
You should believe something because it is true, not because it's useful.
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That's the never ending circle though isn't it? Scripture might be bogus but science can't prove God doesn't exist right? Your 'truth' is just your perception of what you believe.
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11-13-2010, 07:37 PM
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#149
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coys1882
That's the never ending circle though isn't it? Scripture might be bogus but science can't prove God doesn't exist right? Your 'truth' is just your perception of what you believe.
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Its the religious that need to prove their dogma is true...they are the ones espousing the belief.
Science has done more to disprove dogma in the last 50 years than the relgious have proven in the 2000 years before.
"Faith" is a funny way to prove something when thats all they have.
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11-13-2010, 07:45 PM
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#150
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Powerplay Quarterback
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chair
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coys1882
That's the never ending circle though isn't it? Scripture might be bogus but science can't prove God doesn't exist right?
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That's shifting the burden of proof. You can't prove that there's not an invisible, undetectable, omniscient ice cream sandwich floating around this room at this very moment. I dare you to try.
Quote:
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Your 'truth' is just your perception of what you believe.
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If you make a statement about some objective aspect of the world, it's either true or it isn't. For instance, the statements "Only Yahweh created the universe" and "Only Thor created the universe" cannot both be true. At least one must be false. Either something (of this nature) is true or it isn't.
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11-13-2010, 07:55 PM
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#151
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All I can get
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coys1882
Haha - you sir are a real gem. Continue to furiously masturbate while posting in this thread.
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Quote:
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Onanism, a sin that requires hundreds of hours of practice to get right, or at least that's what I told myself.
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- Christopher Moore
Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal
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11-13-2010, 08:11 PM
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#152
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Self-Retirement
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheese
3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
"God so loved the world, that he gave his His only begotten Son."
As an example to parents everywhere and to save the world (from himself), God had his own son tortured and killed.
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You don't even understand what the scripture is saying. Read it again. God loved the world so much that he gave his Son as a perfect sacrifice, to save mankind by repaying the perpetual sin/imperfection that Adam has passed on to generation after generation.
It wasn't to save mankind from himself. Adam was the one who sinned and became imperfect and passed on death to his offspring, not God. Imagine how heart-wrenching it was for God to watch his Son die a criminal's death. But one death (Jesus) can turn into everlasting life for millions, by repaying the debt of sin that Adam owes.
Last edited by normtwofinger; 11-13-2010 at 08:13 PM.
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11-13-2010, 08:18 PM
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#153
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by normtwofinger
You don't even understand what the scripture is saying. Read it again. God loved the world so much that he gave his Son as a perfect sacrifice, to save mankind by repaying the perpetual sin/imperfection that Adam has passed on to generation after generation.
It wasn't to save mankind from himself. Adam was the one who sinned and became imperfect and passed on death to his offspring, not God. Imagine how heart-wrenching it was for God to watch his Son die a criminal's death. But one death (Jesus) can turn into everlasting life for millions, by repaying the debt of sin that Adam owes.
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I know what it says...and what I posted is correct, God had his only son tortured and murdered. Nice.
Even better than that is...an Omnipotent God would have known this would happen.
Of course for a Christian to buy what you suggest, they would have to buy into the whole Adam and Eve theme as well, do you agree?
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11-13-2010, 09:04 PM
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#154
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Calgaryborn
Sorry I'm not interested in playing this game. Your on a computer. You've got google. Why should I answer any questions for you.
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3...2...before you leave this thread as usual. 
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11-13-2010, 09:11 PM
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#155
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All I can get
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Cheeses is Lard. Argue that!
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11-13-2010, 10:42 PM
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#156
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Lifetime Suspension
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Creston
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T@T
3...2...before you leave this thread as usual. |
Hey my work is done. I exposed the weakness of Sam Harris' little chart and now you atheists are taking random pot shots at christain beliefs.
Why stick around for more of your endless chirping. Your a waste of my time.
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11-13-2010, 11:38 PM
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#157
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheese
I know what it says...and what I posted is correct, God had his only son tortured and murdered. Nice.
Even better than that is...an Omnipotent God would have known this would happen.
Of course for a Christian to buy what you suggest, they would have to buy into the whole Adam and Eve theme as well, do you agree?
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You're omitting two important aspects of Christian salvation though. First, God and Jesus exist as a part of the holy Trinity, and as such, Jesus was God. They are inseparable beings. It was God himself sacrificed for our sins. Second, although omniscient God did know this would be required, because He was made flesh as man, he had the freedom of will that all men posses, and chose that course of action regardless.
You can't reduce the crucifixion to a simple master/servant or parent/child relationship, because Christianity understands it as something much more complex than that.
Others can discuss it at greater length - I'm on the ipad and its a pain to type at length.
__________________
-Scott
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11-13-2010, 11:40 PM
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#158
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheese
Even better than that is...an Omnipotent God would have known this would happen.
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Foreknowledge and predestination are two completely different concepts.
That's not mentioning anything about the free will of man.
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11-14-2010, 12:53 AM
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#159
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Basement Chicken Choker
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: In a land without pants, or war, or want. But mostly we care about the pants.
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Peter12 has left the building. Cue another repeat of the "new atheism" blather next thread of this type, in which he hopes nobody notices he only sticks around until the difficult questions are asked.
Why don't you christians just resort to the "God is beyond our understanding" argument and stop with the convoluted "logic" trying to explain the inexplicable. Clearly your god is not logical, so just run with that, would you?
It's dull listening to the same apologetics that convince only those who already believe. God, if it exists, is a paradoxical being, and the attempts to prove it isn't only make you come across as wilfully blind dogmatics. You can't have omnisicience and free will, you can't have predistination and free will, you can't have omnipotence and free will, all attempts to prove you can might as well go with "God is inexplicable" and be done with it.
Proving God exists with logic is like trying to prove pizza with logic. It's either miraculously at your house in under 30 minutes, or all the arguments in the world won't get you fed.
__________________
Better educated sadness than oblivious joy.
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11-14-2010, 05:49 AM
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#160
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Austin, Tx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jammies
Peter12 has left the building. Cue another repeat of the "new atheism" blather next thread of this type, in which he hopes nobody notices he only sticks around until the difficult questions are asked.
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My favorite part of this thread is that he said he thinks new athiests are smug. That brought the lulz.
Although I probably screwed up this whole post by not putting quotation marks around new athiests.
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