Too Asian?

[HelloHockeyFans]

One thing immigrants deserve credit for is excelling in subjects that are traditionally perceived as being 'difficult' like engineering when they don't even have a strong command of the language that the subject material is being presented in. I've always found it amazing that English-first citizens can fail out/perform poorly while people who may not even understand the lectures completely are at the top of the class.

If we're talking about immigrants who clearly have English as their second language having a tough time moving up the corporate ladder into executive-level positions, I tend to agree and that just makes sense as you'd typically be required to engage with others in English and expected to be able to do so in a professional manner. I think it has less to do with the stereotype of immigrants being quiet/not outgoing, but more with their command of English.

I'm Asian - born and raised here - and I've had no problems moving up the corporate world. Lots of directors across various departments that I've come across who are not only minorities, but women too.

These glass ceilings aren't around anymore. The perception that they are is also something that - at least from my conversations with others - is also being recognized now as a thing of the past.

[I_H8_Crawford]

I think it depends on the industry.

My girlfriend's workplace is still heavily white male dominated, with only 1 woman in the higher echelon of management. It even goes so far that all of the box seats to Flames games, golfing with clients, etc are done by all the males because (and she was told this) "girls don't like that kind of stuff"

[FlamesAddiction]

What we need is affirmative action for whites now.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by HelloHockeyFans

I think it has less to do with the stereotype of immigrants being quiet/not outgoing, but more with their command of English.

Look at any organization's leadership values chart - right or wrong, this is generally what society has determined is good for "leading groups of people". You need to be able to motivate, coach, be a team player, discipline and handle conflict appropriately.

English IMHO is secondary. Anyone can learn to speak English if they try hard enough and learn to use it in an effective manner.

Soft skills on the other hand, are tougher to teach, the person has to be internally driven in order to learn them. The tough part for new Canadians is that they've had their own Cultural values drilled into them (avoid conflict in some cases), and don't understand what a Canadian style is.

Shy people don't become managers. Shy people with English as a second language do fight an uphill battle, but can overcome it if they try hard enough.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

My latest ex is a fresher off the boat girl from Taiwan, I often told her that there were 100 other names then Sarah to choose from.

Or they can go the opposite route and totally pick names that don't make any sense. Just a brief glance at some English names that HK and Taiwanese entertainers have given themselves:

Deep
Power
Evergreen
Mercedes
Alien
Show
Amigo

It's like they randomly pick words out of an English dictionary and go "hey, that word sounds kind of cool, I'm going with that for my first name!"

[FlamesAddiction]

I used to work at a research station and many of the scientists I knew used to avoid hiring Asian immigrants because of the downside of the attitude many of them have where they try to please their employer to no end. The reason being, many of them had a reputation for "fudging" scientific data in ways that would make their employer happy. If they knew that their employers was hoping to prove or disprove something, they would create a bias to make it happen.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I used to work at a research station and many of the scientists I knew used to avoid hiring Asian immigrants because of the downside of the attitude many of them have where they try to please their employer to no end. The reason being, many of them had a reputation for "fudging" scientific data in ways that would make their employer happy. If they knew that their employers was hoping to prove or disprove something, they would create a bias to make it happen.

I can attest to this. I find that in the tech industry, there are a LOT of frauds. Especially young engineers from India, it seems more socially acceptable to fudge their work and say or do whatever they can to get away with as much as they can that it makes the process quite intensive to figure out who's a fraud and who's not.

To the topic at hand ... I think the role of universities (in Canada) is to develop talent for Canada. These universities are highly public funded and as a result, society should be benefiting from whatever talent and skills Canada universities produce. In that sense, I think Canadian univerities should keep higher %'s to Canadian citizens and lower %'s to non-Canadian citizens. (I realize the irony since I'm a Canadian citizen, educated in a Canadian university, then immediately left Canada once I graduated to work in another country.)

As for the segregation ... I think it is important to have a comprehensive "university" experience. The culture of "work work work" might seem admirable, but that loses sight of what university is all about. University is about learning but a big part of it is also personal development. Most students use 5% of what they learned in their undergrad (especially in Canada, less so for specialized fields) and the difference between a "successful" university grad and a non-successful is their ability to adapt, to learn on the spot and transferable skills you don't get from being a study monkey jumping through hoops. Students that study 24/7 lose sight of creativity and intuition and only know how to work in a confined box of systematic formula. It doesn't have to necessarily be drinking and partying, but there are lots of other aspects of academic life that develop well rounded individuals to contribute to society post-grad... something you don't get from being a calculator monkey.

[Matata]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

I think it depends on the industry.

My girlfriend's workplace is still heavily white male dominated, with only 1 woman in the higher echelon of management. It even goes so far that all of the box seats to Flames games, golfing with clients, etc are done by all the males because (and she was told this) "girls don't like that kind of stuff"

Recently had a class project where 90 individuals, about 50/50 male/female, broke off into 5 person groups and had to do a presentation with only 1-2 group members presenting. Only one group used a single female presenter and 2-4 groups had mixed presenters, every other group used only male presenters. This is all at the grad school level, so no slouches here.

It was really interesting to see that in groups where everyone has equal status and ability, males (more often white than not) were still the ones speaking and in the business world, speakers get all the credit.

I was having lunch with an indian & chinese group and the subject of racial strengths/weaknesses came up, it was their point of view that asians are superior concentrators, whites are superior organizers and that our relative strengths were a great combo. From my own experiences in engineering school, I have to agree that this is a valid generality, though it is a rule often broken.

In summary, get used to big daddy white man, he's sticking around.

[Huntingwhale]

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by Matata

Recently had a class project where 90 individuals, about 50/50 male/female, broke off into 5 person groups and had to do a presentation with only 1-2 group members presenting. Only one group used a single female presenter and 2-4 groups had mixed presenters, every other group used only male presenters. This is all at the grad school level, so no slouches here.

It was really interesting to see that in groups where everyone has equal status and ability, males (more often white than not) were still the ones speaking and in the business world, speakers get all the credit.

I was having lunch with an indian & chinese group and the subject of racial strengths/weaknesses came up, it was their point of view that asians are superior concentrators, whites are superior organizers and that our relative strengths were a great combo. From my own experiences in engineering school, I have to agree that this is a valid generality, though it is a rule often broken.

In summary, get used to big daddy white man, he's sticking around.

YUP! This is something women have to get their head around, public speaking.

There are women in my office who talk non-stop.. to the point where the managers have warned them that they're talking too much and disrupting work.

But ask them to do a presentation and it's "OMG! I hate speaking in front of people"

Women are never going to advance with attitudes like that.