Edmonton couple misses flight because of diaper trouble...

[Frequitude]

Alaska should not hold the plane or refund their Westjet ticket money, but they should absolutely throw them on the next available Alaska flight at no extra cost.

[Russic]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Wow congratulations, you've just excused rude behavior. I get that people can't control their snoring, thats whatever, but if you can't stop your baby from crying, maybe your baby shouldn't be flying. If you can't shut the f up after I politely tell you that I don't need to hear about your cats, or your spoon collection then you have a problem, and maybe you should lose some weight or wear a low cut top so I have something to look at while you yammer.

You don't have the right to smell like a$$ on a plane, take a shower, you don't have a right to lean on my shoulder, or intrude on my personal space GTFO.

Oh and if you don't quit farting I'm going to throw you out the fricken window.

I'm not excusing rude behavior at all, merely realizing that rude behavior exists and in many cases there is nothing you can do about it.

There will always be situations where babies need to fly. Those are situations you can't 100% control. Having to listen to a baby cry on an airplane? 100% controllable.

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

Sympathy for people who miss the flight for any reason = 0.

I have flown a lot, and the only time I have ever missed a flight was after an alcohol (among other things) fuelled night in Vancouver a few years back. I thought that the $50 fee and going on standby on a later flight was more than generous by Westjet, and even if I had been forced to buy another ticket at full price, I would have done it and not once grumbled about anything more than my own stupidity.

[NBC]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Wow congratulations, you've just excused rude behavior. I get that people can't control their snoring, thats whatever, but if you can't stop your baby from crying, maybe your baby shouldn't be flying. If you can't shut the f up after I politely tell you that I don't need to hear about your cats, or your spoon collection then you have a problem, and maybe you should lose some weight or wear a low cut top so I have something to look at while you yammer.

You don't have the right to smell like a$$ on a plane, take a shower, you don't have a right to lean on my shoulder, or intrude on my personal space GTFO.

Oh and if you don't quit farting I'm going to throw you out the fricken window.

I think the real problem here is that one sub-section of society believes that parents need to take more responsibility for their actions and the actions of their children. While another group thinks that people should be responsible for their own personal situation, because as one poster said, "you can't control your surroundings." This particular line of thinking is dangerous as lots of people are incredibly intolerant of parents and loud, disruptive children and are not prepared to purchase expensive audio peripherals in order to have a reasonably non-eventful flight. As such this can lead to uncomfortable confrontations between annoyed passengers and oblivious parents, which can and do happen with alarming regularity.

It is far too simple of solution to say that people have to take responsibility for their situation as we cannot control our surroundings. For some, taking responsibility might include yelling at children and colorfully 'suggesting' ways parents can control their children. This solution doesn't help the situation and usually leads to an escalation of an already problematic issue.

[SeoulFire]

Originally Posted by fotze

Exactly, pretty poor customer service to the 200 people you are forcing to delay. Probably a decent chance that more than two of those people could miss a connector.

Then the people who miss the connector are clearly at fault. Delays happen all the time and not allowing for small delays is just dumb.

[Russic]

Originally Posted by NBC

I think the real problem here is that one sub-section of society believes that parents need to take more responsibility for their actions and the actions of their children. While another group thinks that people should be responsible for their own personal situation, because as one poster said, "you can't control your surroundings." This particular line of thinking is dangerous as lots of people are incredibly intolerant of parents and loud, disruptive children and are not prepared to purchase expensive audio peripherals in order to have a reasonably non-eventful flight. As such this can lead to uncomfortable confrontations between annoyed passengers and oblivious parents, which can and do happen with alarming regularity.

It is far too simple of solution to say that people have to take responsibility for their situation as we cannot control our surroundings. For some, taking responsibility might include yelling at children and colorfully 'suggesting' ways parents can control their children. This solution doesn't help the situation and usually leads to an escalation of an already problematic issue.

The way I look at it, if you can afford a plane ticket you can afford a $30 pair of headphones (or $5-$10 if you get the cheapo headphones from the airline). You don't necessarily need to spend $100 on noise isolation, simple cheap ear buds for the most part do just fine. If you can't afford the $30, I totally understand ... just know that if a noisy situation arises you'll most likely have to live with it. You have to make the call if sanity insurance is worth $30 to you.

I suppose I don't quite understand why you think the view that you can't totally control your surroundings is dangerous. Perhaps I am misunderstanding your point.

[Jodester]

I read it this way. They asked for 5 minutes as the baby was in the washroom. The air line gave 2 minutes, so lets assume that they came back in the 5 minutes. They were 3 minutes late. How long does it take to make the final call that the original ticket holders are SOL and they have to book in the next stand by person and have them board. Probably a couple minutes. So really this plane (making a few assumptions) was delayed 1-3 minutes. This is a lot of negative press for 1-3 minutes. The plane probably sat on the tarmac for a while waiting to take off as per every experience i have had on a plane and over the course of a 2 hour flight 1-3 minutes, i cant tell the difference. I know people are going to say it is the principle of being late but man, in the sevice industry these are reasons companies fail or make it. The airline industry is pretty cut throat right now too.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by fotze

Exactly, pretty poor customer service to the 200 people you are forcing to delay. Probably a decent chance that more than two of those people could miss a connector.

I had a similar experience with far more serious repercussions (not for me) on a flight back to Calgary from London Gatwick last week. Basically, as we waited at the gate, there was an older gentleman who started having heart palpitations. It got so bad that paramedics were called by the flight staff to okay him for flying. They checked him, said he was okay. But what do paramedics know? All they could do was check his blood sugar, his heart beat, ask him to breathe slowly etc... Anyway, this guy and his wife are absolutely insisting that they be allowed onto the flight and back to Canada. Sure enough, after about an hour of this shenanigan and substantial delay before takeoff, they are ok'd to fly.

So we take off and literally about 45 minutes into the flight, there is an announcement by the pilot for anyone with medical training to make themselves known to the flight crew. Literally as soon as we had taken off, this guy had had a massive heart attack. We went on flying for another hour or so, then he really went downhill, they had the chest paddles out, had him on a saline drop. The whole works.

We had to make an emergency landing in Reykjavik, damaging the planes tires and delaying everyone for about 20 hours. Now, I was ok with this, being a young guy, travelling by myself. The airline put us up in a nice hotel, gave us meal vouchers. I was just sort of thrilled by the whole opportunity to get a small slice of Iceland for free.

But there were young families, single mothers, people with connections that all had their travel arrangements seriously effed up. Many people were complaining that it was the airline's fault for letting him on the plane. But what could they do? The real problem was that some old dude didn't have the courage to realize that the situation wasn't all about him while he was on the ground in Gatwick and close to what have to be some of the finest medical facilities in the world. When we took off the next day, the pilot announced that he was still in hospital in Iceland, unstable and in critical condition.

[SeoulFire]

Originally Posted by fotze

Possibly, but their mistake affects only them. When your mistake affects others, then it needs to be stopped by the airline.

Point taken. It all could have been avoided if the parents did not care about those around them and brought their poop-smelling offspring on the plane took care of the change later.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by SeoulFire

Point taken. It all could have been avoided if the parents did not care about those around them and brought their poop-smelling offspring on the plane took care of the change later.

Or if they had been on time and preboarded, they could have changed him in the lavatory without any issues for anyone.

[Ashartus]

Both sides are probably partly to blame. In my experience diaper emergencies always seem to happen right when the pre-boarding announcement is made - I've never missed a flight because of it though, and if I was cutting it that close I'd do it on the plane. Changing a 16-month old on a change table in an airplane is not easy though, since the change tables pretty small. And Alaska Airlines has horrible customer service and my experiences with them have been pretty bad, so their attitude to the situation does not surprise me at all.

[NBC]

Originally Posted by Russic

The way I look at it, if you can afford a plane ticket you can afford a $30 pair of headphones (or $5-$10 if you get the cheapo headphones from the airline). You don't necessarily need to spend $100 on noise isolation, simple cheap ear buds for the most part do just fine. If you can't afford the $30, I totally understand ... just know that if a noisy situation arises you'll most likely have to live with it. You have to make the call if sanity insurance is worth $30 to you.

I suppose I don't quite understand why you think the view that you can't totally control your surroundings is dangerous. Perhaps I am misunderstanding your point.

Because a lot of people are complete jerks and totally intolerant of situations like this and are prepared to confront people with unruly children. While I do agree with basic libertarian tenets, I think that thrusting sole responsibility on to others is unhelpful as it removes any responsibility of the parent to temper the situation by controlling the child's behaviour.

Plus noise canceling headwear is not always the answer. I fly a lot for business, academic stuff, and sometimes it is necessary to prep for meetings/conferences with a colleague, and the introduction of earphones or earplugs isn't appropriate. Which is why I think that this is a bigger issue than simply purchasing audio equipment.

That is all.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by Ashartus

In my experience diaper emergencies always seem to happen right when the pre-boarding announcement is made - I've never missed a flight because of it though, and if I was cutting it that close I'd do it on the plane.

That's probably because there's quite a bit of time between the preboarding announcement and the last call for the plane if you're flying on a decent sized plane.

[theonlywhiteout]

from my limited flight experience i found my monster beats noise cancelling headphones were my best friend. they were so good at blocking out passenger chatter and engine noise i fell asleep each time i put them on and some relaxing music. get some noise cancelling headphones and your next flight will be a breeze.

[NBC]

Originally Posted by fotze

As much as it may suck to have a noisy baby on the flight. It is 10 times worse when its your noisy baby. Dreading the flight at Christmas. Maybe I should buy the plane a drink.

Man, I wish more parents had your outlook. The world would be a much happier place.

[habernac]

Anyone who thinks it's easy to comfort an upset baby on a flight obviously has no children. They're in a situation that they aren't used to, their ears are popping, they have no idea what's going on. They will cry, it's what they do. And anyone who gives me grief about it can stick it straight up their asses.

Now if it's something like a 4 year old misbehaving on a plane, I can see your point totally.

[Travis Munroe]

On my last trip back from LV I had a baby right beside me and another one 2 rows behind me.
I think I was making more noise than them lol...beyond impressed. Granted this was a once in a blue moon situation.

[Ashartus]

Originally Posted by Realtor 1

On my last trip back from LV I had a baby right beside me and another one 2 rows behind me.
I think I was making more noise than them lol...beyond impressed. Granted this was a once in a blue moon situation.

Depends a lot on the kids. My kids are both pretty good travelers (perhaps because they do it a lot) and generally not a problem on flights, but I've seen others scream for the whole flight. Any kid has limits though, and if it's a long traveling day they can start to lose it, and babies can be a bit unpredictable (sleep through a five hour flight one day, and scream the next).

[Russic]

Originally Posted by NBC

Because a lot of people are complete jerks and totally intolerant of situations like this and are prepared to confront people with unruly children. While I do agree with basic libertarian tenets, I think that thrusting sole responsibility on to others is unhelpful as it removes any responsibility of the parent to temper the situation by controlling the child's behaviour.

Plus noise canceling headwear is not always the answer. I fly a lot for business, academic stuff, and sometimes it is necessary to prep for meetings/conferences with a colleague, and the introduction of earphones or earplugs isn't appropriate. Which is why I think that this is a bigger issue than simply purchasing audio equipment.

That is all.

I think we're going to have to agree to disagree here. I'm not seeing the connection between headphone wearers and unruly passengers. I could walk over to the couple and say "excuse me folks, hate to bother you but your screaming child is beginning to irritate me and the other passengers." Are you implying that the parents aren't actually aware of this? I've been the guy in the restaurant with the screaming baby and let me tell you, it's bloody awful.

Of course the parents have a responsibility to keep the baby as calm as they possibly can. Problem is before I had a kid I didn't realize that sometimes it just doesn't matter. If something goes wrong there's no reasoning with a baby. They are godless screaming machines that demand action.

Totally on board with you with the colleague thing. I can appreciate that at times you need to have a discussion on a plane. This would be an unfortunate situation, but I would also think it a rare one. Perhaps I'm wrong and people are flying differently that I am, but I don't often see this. In that case it blows, but like Fotze says it's way worse for the parent imo.

[Table 5]

Originally Posted by habernac

Anyone who thinks it's easy to comfort an upset baby on a flight obviously has no children. They're in a situation that they aren't used to, their ears are popping, they have no idea what's going on. They will cry, it's what they do.

I'd love if it there was a baby/family section in airplanes, so at least the noise isn't spread out. Stick all the people with babies/toddler together in the back where they are close to the bathrooms, and can board first with all their gear. It's noisier in the back anyway, so it won't be as obtrusive if there's crying.

Toddlers who kick seats and whine should be forced to ride in the baggage compartment. At that age, they should be able to behave in public. How a child acts is a reflection of parenting, so I have no problem feeling high and mighty and giving dirty looks.