When do they finally Axe Park N Ride?

[GGG]

Vancouver, the liveable city mecca in canada charges at park n ride lots. Its not uncommon. Why not free city lots downtown, people already pay for the roads.

[Dion]

My federal and provncial dollars at work.....

"The Government of Canada is investing in increased efficiency and expanded capacity of the transit system while creating jobs in Calgary," said Minister Prentice. "This project is providing job opportunities for Albertans and building transit infrastructure that will promote long-term economic growth."

The total cost of these projects is approximately $270 million. The Government of Canada is contributing up to one-third of the total eligible costs, to a maximum of $90 million through the Building Canada Fund and the Infrastructure Stimulus Fund. The Province of Alberta is also contributing up to $90 million toward the project, with the remaining funding coming from the City of Calgary.

http://www.marketwire.com/press-rele...ts-1256486.htm

[Byrns]

Originally Posted by Slava

I think that they should axe the fee, and that everyone else should take the train as a result. It'll just my commute better (I have zero intentions of taking the train myself, just think that everyone should do it).

The pure inconvenience of the charge is enough reason to get rid of it though. I stood at the station for campaign reasons over the past couple of months and watched people struggle with the machines.

As another response, the reason that people are "entitled to free parking..." is because they are paying customers for the service. Same reason that you are given free parking at Chinook Centre or most other businesses in the city that rely on your being there.

Because a private business is the same as a city run service.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Slava

I think that they should axe the fee, and that everyone else should take the train as a result. It'll just my commute better (I have zero intentions of taking the train myself, just think that everyone should do it).

The pure inconvenience of the charge is enough reason to get rid of it though. I stood at the station for campaign reasons over the past couple of months and watched people struggle with the machines.

As another response, the reason that people are "entitled to free parking..." is because they are paying customers for the service. Same reason that you are given free parking at Chinook Centre or most other businesses in the city that rely on your being there.

I agree with this. They should have a monthly parking pass option that is pre-paid at a discounted rate online. Also, if you purchase a bus pass you should be able to purchase an even further discounted parking pass for that time frame.

As for parking being entitled because you can park other places for free that has some merit, but think about this: how many spots are there within a block or two of your office that are free to park all day? It has been a little while since I was there, but I remember it being a bit of a pain to find a free spot (I also could be totally out to lunch)

If I drive to the University, I can't park all day for free. Anywhere downtown? It is very rare to find a spot that is free for 2 hours, never mind all day.

The things about paying to park at C-Train stations that makes sense are:

a) It is premium parking. When it was free there were more people who wanted to use it than were able to. Simple supply and demand says you should charge for it.

b) It encourages people to not drive, and take the bus from their neighbourhoods rather than driving to the station. This reduces overall congestion so the city does not need to put in as many new roads etc. It also helps the environment, if you are wack job enough to care about that kind of thing.

c) If you are selling a product, you should sell it for a comparable price to the options. It is drastically cheaper to park at the park and ride and train downtown than it is to pay for gas to drive downtown and then park downtown. The cheapest parking I know of downtown is about $15 a day, the most expensive I know of is $30, add in a few bucks for gas and wear and tear on your cars and it is : $8 a day compared to $20-$35 a day.

Sure it isn't needed, but in this world of choices on how we are going to come up with $60million deficit, I would rather charge people to park at the train station than increase my taxes, especially if the people we are talking about are not even paying city taxes anyway.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Byrns

Because a private business is the same as a city run service.

Both are looking for revenue. Charging a fee for parking only discourages transit use - I call it negitive re enforecement. Creative some incentives to get people to use public transit.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Dion

Fine. I'll drive downtown clogging up the streets providing no revenue for Calgary transit. Is not some revenue better than nothing?

If you would rather shell out $15-30 + gas costs to park downtown rather than park downtown, then you are totally entitled to make that choice.

[MJM]

Originally Posted by Boblobla

I hope they keep it. I am all for taxing the users to pay for the c-train rather than taxing everyone.

I'm tired of paying tax for health care, social services, EI and other stuff I never use, but seem to be enjoyed by many others......

You don't make any sense. For every service you don't use, you can probably name 5 you do that others may not. Your post is so short-sighted it's scary.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Rathji

b) It encourages people to not drive, and take the bus from their neighbourhoods rather than driving to the station. This reduces overall congestion so the city does not need to put in as many new roads etc. It also helps the environment, if you are wack job enough to care about that kind of thing.

That would be a great idea if the feeder bus system wasn't so crappy. Too many communities don't have a good feeder system to get them to the station. A good friend lives in one of those communities and drives to the station.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by Rathji

If you would rather shell out $15-30 + gas costs to park downtown rather than park downtown, then you are totally entitled to make that choice.

Not everyone has to pay to park downtown though. Some companies include parking as an attractive perk to work for them. For my wife and I, it is cheaper to drive downtown (factoring in gas and insurance/maintenance) than it is to park and ride. It also cuts down our commute time drastically. $55/week vs. $40/week driving.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Dion

Both are looking for revenue. Charging a fee for parking only discourages transit use - I call it negitive re enforecement. Creative some incentives to get people to use public transit.

But there is only so much capacity in the lots. When they were free there was a supply shortage. So charging a fee makes sense. At sommerset Bridlewood the lot fills up at about 8:30. So no more incentive is required and the $3 fee is either the right amount or possibly a little low.

At anderson whcih doesn't fill up anymore the fee is obviously too high and should be lowered or eliminated. At the Anderson lot I would agree the fee discourages use.

The price needs to be assessed on a lot by lot basis the same way downtown parking is priced. Let the market decide the correct price for the product and make sure it is fully utilized.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Rathji

If you would rather shell out $15-30 + gas costs to park downtown rather than park downtown, then you are totally entitled to make that choice.

You're missing the point. Isn't Calgary transit always struggling to meet costs? Don't they need more revenue?

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Dion

That would be a great idea if the feeder bus system wasn't so crappy. Too many communities don't have a good feeder system to get them to the station. A good friend lives in one of those communities and drives to the station.

I understand the feeder bus systems can be crappy.

I live in one of the communities where it was certainly the case before the 302 started running. Right now, there are 2 free park and ride lots along the 302 route that are never full that could be used instead of the $3 park and ride lots. I know they really only are a good choice for less than 1/3 of the city, but it certainly is a start.

Anyone know if there are any other free park and rides for BRT bus routes?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by GGG

But there is only so much capacity in the lots. When they were free there was a supply shortage. So charging a fee makes sense. At sommerset Bridlewood the lot fills up at about 8:30. So no more incentive is required and the $3 fee is either the right amount or possibly a little low.

At anderson whcih doesn't fill up anymore the fee is obviously too high and should be lowered or eliminated. At the Anderson lot I would agree the fee discourages use.

The price needs to be assessed on a lot by lot basis the same way downtown parking is priced. Let the market decide the correct price for the product and make sure it is fully utilized.

At one time IIRC they charged a fee for those wishing to have a reserved spot at some lots.

If you lower fees at one lot transit users will flock to that cheaper lot. Just like those that will park aways from the lots to avoid the $3 fee.

[redforever]

I live outside of Calgary, take the CT maybe once or twice a year.

The problems Calgary Transit experiences are not exacerbated because of casual users from the country, who by the way have paid taxes towards the CTrain as well.

[Shazam]

Charging the fee did seem to increase bus usage to c-train stations.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by Frank MetaMusil

Not everyone has to pay to park downtown though. Some companies include parking as an attractive perk to work for them. For my wife and I, it is cheaper to drive downtown (factoring in gas and insurance/maintenance) than it is to park and ride. It also cuts down our commute time drastically. $55/week vs. $40/week driving.

That parking is part of your pay even if it does not come out of your paycheck directly, so it still has a cost, just not an out of pocket cost. Of course, if your company is subsidizing your parking then Calgary Transit cannot compete economically with that.

So while it is a much better option for you to drive, it doesn't really have any bearing on this argument because I doubt you would stop driving if they didn't charge anything for parking.

Originally Posted by Dion

You're missing the point. Isn't Calgary transit always struggling to meet costs? Don't they need more revenue?

Yes, but to stop charging for something there is obviously still a demand for is foolish, especially when the parking downtown alternative is expensive enough to warrant the additional chage.

[shermanator]

I don't know about the prices now, but when I was a student, it was cheaper to drive and park at McMahon stadium than take transit. Parking was, IIRC, $75 a semester around 2005 at McMahon, and it took a third of the time for me to get to school.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by shermanator

I don't know about the prices now, but when I was a student, it was cheaper to drive and park at McMahon stadium than take transit. Parking was, IIRC, $75 a semester around 2005 at McMahon, and it took a third of the time for me to get to school.

Its about $125 now I think, but the demand is crazy high for those spots. They are pretty much all gone the day they are released. Sure for the people that get them they are great, but for everyone else the cheapest parking is $5 a day. Add in gas and the fact that as a full time student you don't need to pay to get on the bus or train, it makes it a little easier to swallow.

As a student, it certainly is faster to drive, especially if I am traveling outside of rush hour but I can also use that time on transit to do something useful. I read my textbooks, watch TV on my iPod, sleep etc. Last time I tried sleeping while I was driving ... well lets just say the wife wasn't very happy...

Personally, I think that people with bus passes or u-passes should be able to purchase seriously discounted parking for these lots. It saves in hassle and it makes sense for them to pay less, just like they pay less for the bus pass itself.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Dion

At one time IIRC they charged a fee for those wishing to have a reserved spot at some lots.

If you lower fees at one lot transit users will flock to that cheaper lot. Just like those that will park aways from the lots to avoid the $3 fee.

Yes they would but at some point you would reach pricing equilibrium. If Anderson was free I wouldn't drive to Anderson from Bridlewood. I would rather pay $3 than drive 7 km and fight traffic. If Fish Creek were free I would drive there but i wouldn't go furthur than that. So the pricing would be in flux for a while but eventually you would probably pay about $1 at Anderson and $3 and Sommerset.

[pepper24]

Originally Posted by Tyler

Kind of a toss up for me. I like the fact that I can always get a spot at Anderson, but factor in $60/month for park and ride, and another $85 for a monthly bus pass.. and you're bordering on $145 a month to take public transit.

I think that's getting to a point where transit isn't looking like an economically viable solution.

Parking in my office tower is $600 per month so $145 doesn't seem that bad. You also have to factor in gas, insurance, extra maintence, owning a 2nd vehicle etc. If I lived in the suburbs I'd easily take the C-train to work.

We used to provide parking stalls to our employees (taxable) but we changed that a few years back to instead give our employees $600 per month (taxable) parking allowances. They get the choice to find parking or find other options like public transit. I walk to work so before I rented out my stall but I know many now are using public transit because it's much more affordable and they can use the difference towards better things.