Tariq Aziz to be hanged

[icarus]

Saddam Hussein's foreign minister and deputy, a familiar face for years on our tv screens, Tariq Aziz has been awarded the death sentence by an Iraqi court.

Strange to think that a guy who was such a public figure for so long, seemingly on the nightly international news on a weekly basis, will now face the gallows.

Interesting to note this:

[...]
Aziz is reported to be seriously ill having suffered a stroke.

"The supreme criminal court issued an execution order against Tariq Aziz for his role in eliminating religious parties," Iraqi state television reported.

Aziz, a Christian, surrendered to US troops in 2003 shortly after the fall of Baghdad.

In 2009 he was jailed for 15 years for the executions of 42 Iraqi merchants.

Death penalty for religious persecution, but 15 years for 42 executions?

[Thor]

[killer_carlson]

oh the irony......

christians are no longer safe in iraq these days. Under saddam they were tolerated.

[WilsonFourTwo]

They've been stringing him along for a while. Besides, the world knows he was the lynchpin in Hussein's rule......at least, until the bottom fell out of the regime.

See ya Tariq.

[CaptainCrunch]

No tears here. A sentence that was well deserved.

[Ducay]

There will be no execution, my good friend Tariq is currently in Cuba enjoying many cervesas and cohibas. This is a lie against our country. The Americans have lost and continue to fall into our traps, they have been defeated.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Ducay

There will be no execution, my good friend Tariq is currently in Cuba enjoying many cervesas and cohibas. This is a lie against our country. The Americans have lost and continue to fall into our traps, they have been defeated.

In 2003, I thoroughly enjoyed watching the legendary Iraqi Information Minister claim that Iraqi forces had taken back the airport, when in the background it was under complete American control.

[Jimmy Stang]

I know this will sound strange, but I kind of liked watching the guy on TV. It was almost comical at times. Not saying that his punishment isn't well-deserved or that he's anything more than a sub-human, but he seemed more like a caricature due to job as a public figure.

[Ducay]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Stang

I know this will sound strange, but I kind of liked watching the guy on TV. It was almost comical at times. Not saying that his punishment isn't well-deserved or that he's anything more than a sub-human, but he seemed more like a caricature due to job as a public figure.

I believe the man being hanged is the Foreign minister, the guy above is the Information minister (who I believe works for Al Jazeera now or something).

[Jimmy Stang]

Originally Posted by Ducay

I believe the man being hanged is the Foreign minister, the guy above is the Information minister (who I believe works for Al Jazeera now or something).

My mistake - you're absolutely right. For some reason, even before the picture of the information minister was posted (Muhammad Saeed al-Sahhaf, for the record), I had already incorrectly associated the name with that face.

[Huntingwhale]

[VladtheImpaler]

I remember this guy and his bottle-glasses - he was a regular on CNN. I don't think he deserves to be hung, but it's not like I have a great argument in his defense - just a gut feeling....

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

I remember this guy and his bottle-glasses - he was a regular on CNN. I don't think he deserves to be hung, but it's not like I have a great argument in his defense - just a gut feeling....

Why don't you believe he deserves to be hanged? He was complicate in a lot of executions and the attempted extermination of the Kurds.

I just hope that the executioner forgets to move the knot to the side before he pulls the lever.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Why don't you believe he deserves to be hanged? He was complicate in a lot of executions and the attempted extermination of the Kurds.

I just hope that the executioner forgets to move the knot to the side before he pulls the lever.

Foreign ministers have generally had little to do with the internal workings/repression of a given regime. Sure, he is "complicit", but in this day and age, executions are usually reserved for the actual perpetrators. To take it further back in history for an analogy, I don't think Ribbentrop should have been executed either....

[CaptainCrunch]

Sure, except that Aziz was part of Saddam's revolutionary command council which made decisions on all aspects of Iraqi government.

Ribbentrop earned his noose. He had a large part in the deportation of Jews, was involved in the phoney treaty with Russia, and advocated summary executions of American and British pilots that were shot down over Germany.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Sure, except that Aziz was part of Saddam's revolutionary command council which made decisions on all aspects of Iraqi government.

Ribbentrop earned his noose. He had a large part in the deportation of Jews, was involved in the phoney treaty with Russia, and advocated summary executions of American and British pilots that were shot down over Germany.

Perhaps. I said I didn't have a strong argument. Just has always been my feeling that being in charge of foreign affairs is a damn busy job, which leaves little time for such mundane activities as deportations and executions....

[NBC]

The only person that made decisions within the regime was Saddam. The RCC, national assembly, Iraq's judiciary, the civil service, none of these bodies had any real decision making authority. All the RCC ever did was sit around and try to guess what Saddam wanted to hear and what he was going to do. Solely based on his membership to that deliberative body would not necessarily mean that Aziz was complicit in the al-Anfal campaign or that he anything to do with Iraq's proscribed weapons programs.

When it became apparent that Aziz was going to be unable to get Iraq out from under UN sanctions, he fell out of favour with Saddam, even though he remained the Deputy Prime Minister until OEF.

Iraq under Saddam was like some sort of Babylonian wild west. Dissenters were killed ad nauseum. Very few people outside of Saddam and his two sons, had any authority to order the deaths of Iraqis, be they government officials, military personnel or civilians.

I'd bet that since Aziz was the face of the regime for years the Iraq Interim Government wants to make an example of him. Out of all of Saddam's inner coterie, Aziz was by far the most benign.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by NBC

The only person that made decisions within the regime was Saddam. The RCC, national assembly, Iraq's judiciary, the civil service, none of these bodies had any real decision making authority. All the RCC ever did was sit around and try to guess what Saddam wanted to hear and what he was going to do. Solely based on his membership to that deliberative body would not necessarily mean that Aziz was complicit in the al-Anfal campaign or that he anything to do with Iraq's proscribed weapons programs.

When it became apparent that Aziz was going to be unable to get Iraq out from under UN sanctions, he fell out of favour with Saddam, even though he remained the Deputy Prime Minister until OEF.

Iraq under Saddam was like some sort of Babylonian wild west. Dissenters were killed ad nauseum. Very few people outside of Saddam and his two sons, had any authority to order the deaths of Iraqis, be they government officials, military personnel or civilians.

I'd bet that since Aziz was the face of the regime for years the Iraq Interim Government wants to make an example of him. Out of all of Saddam's inner coterie, Aziz was by far the most benign.

Except that after Nuremberg it was no longer defensible to claim that you were following orders or direction from your government, especially if you were present when those illegal orders were created.

Aziz was a senior member of that government and probably in person when a lot of these discussions were had and the decisions were made.

[NBC]

That is why this is a contentious issue for people. The regime had all the formal decision making structures of a modern state, yet they had zero role in directing national strategic policy. Saddam consulted with very few people on most matters, preferring to rule by fiat. Sure Aziz would have been in the room for the majority of these discussions, but like everyone else in the room, he would have had no real input into whatever they were discussing.

This is a real problem of mirror imaging. In most democracies the deputy PM would most certainly be accountable for government decisions. But how can you hold someone to account when they are only guilty of being in the room when Saddam made a decision on something?

Saddam enjoyed jailing his most trusted lieutenants for periods of time - mostly for minor indiscretions - as he felt it kept them honest. If someone was deemed to be "unpatriotic" as his son-in-law Hussein Kamel was, well we all know what happened to him. I guess if this is the decision of the Iraqi kangaroo court, Aziz's death warrant was signed the minute he was made Deputy Prime Minister of Iraq.