$5 billion hydro project shelved after losing Aboriginal support

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by vanisleflamesfan

Why must every thread that involves First Nations people turn into a free pass for the racists to come out and spout any kind of garbage that they want?

Would you make these kinds of comments in a thread about Black people? Or Asians? The perception of a free pass to take shots at First Nations really sickens me.

Actually, a lot of people would.

http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showthread.php?t=95012

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by HeartsOfFire

So... enough to easily power a small town, or one time-travelling DeLorean for a single trip?

The whole province of Alberta uses around 9500 MW. This project would supply around ~13% of the entire province, or a hypothetical "town" of just over 400,000 people. With no carbon emissions, for those who are interested in such things.

[HeartsOfFire]

...

but...

the "JiggaWatts..."

[Table 5]

Not story really related, but anyone else find the usage of calling a person "First Nations" weird?

When did that come into use anyway? I don't really seem to remember hearing that as a kid, and it definitely seems more of a Canadian term. Not saying we have to call them injuns or anything, but what was wrong with "native"?

[drewboy12]

Originally Posted by vanisleflamesfan

So the fact that we negotiated Treaty with these people gives you the right to be racist?

"we"?... No not we... I had no say in these treaties. If there was a government body in which i could vote for to terminate every treaty to the natives, and stop a flow of tax payers dollars going into the hands of a people who complain because we took there land. You bet id be the first in line voting for that party.

That was hundreds and hundreds of years ago.

[TylerSVT]

Originally Posted by vanisleflamesfan

There is a large movement among Sub-Arctic First Nations communities to return to traditional land use activites (hunting, trapping) as a way to reduce their reliance on government support. Flooding the land seriously threatens their way of life and their ability to provide for themselves economically. It is short sighted to suggest that we should in some way be able to reneg on the contracts we negotiated (Treaty 8 in this case) just because we want the land now.

If economic conditions have changed so much as to render the treaties outdated, reopen negotiations and re-settle the land claims. That is the sollution that many First Nations people want.

Im all for that, hell if they want to hunt and trap then go ahead, but dont ask for us to provide you with power lines, water systems, medical help etc... Its either one of the other IMO.

And obviously i dont actually want natives to be killed or anything, just annoys me that we COULD have a ring road but bureocratic gets in the way.

[fredr123]

From TFA:

Local bands, river users and environmentalists have opposed the project since ATCO brought it forward in 2007.

Better shoot the whiny environmentalists and river users too.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by fredr123

Better shoot the whiny environmentalists and river users too.

Their whining is just whining. It's the First Nations who have the power to block things, even things that overall are positive for the environment.

[Coys1882]

Anyone who thinks that these treatys are good for Native people are delusional. They should all be torn up and the people forced to assimilate into becoming Canadians. Reservations are a wasteland of alcohol, violence, abuse and poverty. Mad Max looks like Disneyland compared to some of these places.

It would be interesting to see what % of people actually believe that this project was shelved because of ancestral lands and not a hold out for more money.

[stampsx2]

I also never signed my name or voted for the government that signed these treaties. Why am I paying? When people immigrate to France or England I don't recall them paying premiums to live on their land. They take part and work together to build a better country don't they?

[algernon]

Originally Posted by TylerSVT

Pretty much.

I wont speak my mind on this subject to avoid sounding racist... but they seriously hamper a city of a million people because they are greedy... let us build the damn ring road already.

If i was PM i would just bulldoze the land and when they put up a fight, just shoot them all... All the do is whine all day long..

Like "we dont want your road going through OUR land" and then "But we NEED your ambulances and fire stations etc..."

Tyler, not to call you a spoiled uppity rich brat, but

I think we should dam up the Bow River just south of that overpriced ghetto-to-be and flood 'em out, before the offspring of those parasitic DeWinton executives head into our town to take all the university spots away from the rest of us, because they are not like us, those pricks.

[Clarkey]

We really need a majority federal government that will actually make an effort to do something about the first people's situation. Grant the bands full surface title to the reserve lands and let them decide what they do with it. Whether that is to sell, subdivide etc. They are squatters living in segregation right now.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

I also never signed my name or voted for the government that signed these treaties. Why am I paying?

Man, it would be pretty sweet if it worked that way. I didn't sign up for the GST or vote for the government that brought that in. Heck, I don't recall voting in favor of income tax either.

Originally Posted by stampsx2

When people immigrate to France or England I don't recall them paying premiums to live on their land. They take part and work together to build a better country don't they?

There's a difference between moving to Europe today to live amongst Europeans and showing up in Canada effectively claiming sovereignty over all the land and the people that had occupied it for centuries.

[vanisleflamesfan]

Originally Posted by fredr123

Man, it would be pretty sweet if it worked that way. I didn't sign up for the GST or vote for the government that brought that in. Heck, I don't recall voting in favor of income tax either.



There's a difference between moving to Europe today to live amongst Europeans and showing up in Canada effectively claiming sovereignty over all the land and the people that had occupied it for centuries.

Too bad I can only thank this post once so... thanks!

[vanisleflamesfan]

Originally Posted by TylerSVT

Im all for that, hell if they want to hunt and trap then go ahead, but dont ask for us to provide you with power lines, water systems, medical help etc... Its either one of the other IMO.

And obviously i dont actually want natives to be killed or anything, just annoys me that we COULD have a ring road but bureocratic gets in the way.

[killer_carlson]

was this Reserve Land or "Traditional Land", of which the provincial government has disputed the rights to?

Pretty big difference. $5,000,000,000.00 is an awful lot of jobs lost. And for clean energy.

[vanisleflamesfan]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

was this Reserve Land or "Traditional Land", of which the provincial government has disputed the rights to?

Pretty big difference. $5,000,000,000.00 is an awful lot of jobs lost. And for clean energy.

The project would have involved flooding lands which would have fallen onto the Reserve lands ceded by Treaty 8.

[fredr123]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

was this Reserve Land or "Traditional Land", of which the provincial government has disputed the rights to?

Pretty big difference. $5,000,000,000.00 is an awful lot of jobs lost. And for clean energy.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/north/story...hydro-dam.html

Tenney [an ATCO spokesperson] said their proposed hydroelectric facility would have allowed water to flow through it and would not have created the huge reservoirs associated with traditional dams.

However, some reserve land belonging to the Smith Landing First Nation would have been flooded, forcing some of its members to move.

Paulette [the Chief of the Smith's River First Nation] said his First Nation's members have had to relocate once before because of another dam project near Fort Fitzgerald.

"There was a lot of heartache a lot of negativity that happened when the government forced Smith's Landing to move from Fort [Fitzgerald] to Fort Smith, so people did not want to experience that move again," he told CBC News on Monday.

Doesn't really say if the entire project is on reserve but some reserve land would have been flooded. Having to relocate some of the First Nation members, especially since they seem to have gone through a similar relocation before, probably isn't something the people of Smith's River are going to be quick to approve.

[vanisleflamesfan]

Originally Posted by Coys1882

Anyone who thinks that these treatys are good for Native people are delusional. They should all be torn up and the people forced to assimilate into becoming Canadians. Reservations are a wasteland of alcohol, violence, abuse and poverty. Mad Max looks like Disneyland compared to some of these places.

It would be interesting to see what % of people actually believe that this project was shelved because of ancestral lands and not a hold out for more money.

Originally Posted by vanisleflamesfan

If economic conditions have changed so much as to render the treaties outdated, reopen negotiations and re-settle the land claims. That is the sollution that many First Nations people want.

Treaties are a Legal CONTRACT between the Crown (the government that represents you whether you voted for it or not) and the other parties (the First Nations). You can't just rip them up, or renege on them when they no longer suit you. I have said this earlier in this thread and many other times in other threads, if you don't like the treaties, pressure your government representatives to re-open treaty negotiations. Somthing that the First Nations communities REALLY, REALLY want!!!

[vanisleflamesfan]

Originally Posted by Table 5

Not story really related, but anyone else find the usage of calling a person "First Nations" weird?

When did that come into use anyway? I don't really seem to remember hearing that as a kid, and it definitely seems more of a Canadian term. Not saying we have to call them injuns or anything, but what was wrong with "native"?

I can PM you on this if you want.