Your belief about September, 11th, 2001

[Acey]

I work with a guy who is convinced 9/11 was an inside job, convinced global warming doesn't exist, convinced Obama was born in Kenya and is a Muslim. This guy is seriously plagued by paranoia and rants about this stuff all day. Last week he was going on about the Flames, and these are pretty much his exact words, "the only reason the Flames moved to Calgary from Atlanta is because the Canadian government, which, by the way is run by the central banks... wanted to have more control over people and hockey provides a good distraction from world politics."

Said he wasn't going to go vote in Lethbridge today because the Illuminati controls all elections anyway so there's no point.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by username

While I don't believe in the whole conspiracy part of this, there are a lot of strange coincidences that came out of this
1 - Americans became very scared of anyone with a middle Eastern background.
2 - The price of oil started to climb shortly after the 911/I.T. recession ended
3 – The US was in an energy crisis with the price of a gallon of gas reaching 3.50
4 – The fear generated from War on Terrorism was enough to convince Americans they needed to go to war against Iraq.
5 – The US takes control of Iraq and the first thing they do is secure the oil pipelines.
6 – A US friendly govt. takes over Iraq
7 – US oil companies are able to move into Iraq
8 – The United States secures possibly 3-4 millions barrels of conventional oil

Coincidence?

Before the war, as much as 90% of Iraqi oil exports ended up at USA Gulf Coast refineries. Currently, about 30% of Iraqi oil exports go to the Western Hemisphere. http://www.eia.doe.gov/cabs/Iraq/OilExports.html

Current USA imports by country are at the link below . . . . Iraq contributed only 5.3% of USA crude imports in July.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/p...nt/import.html

If I'm not mistaken, the majority of oil-related contracts signed by the Iraqi government to date have been with non-USA companies, although USA companies have received some share.

Iraq's problem is with infrastructure and that's where the country may have no choice but to bring in American experitise, including Halliburton/KBR, etc.

http://www.iraqoilreport.com/oil/pro...collapse-5043/

It's all kind of the reverse of what you think.

Cowperson

[edn88]

I think there is a difference between a conspiracy and taking advantage of a given situation.

There were a lot of savvy individuals in the Bush administration when this happened, and it was obvious to them that they could make some lemonade with the lemons they had been given. What politician doesn't spin the situation to their advantage?

[Knalus]

Originally Posted by edn88

I think there is a difference between a conspiracy and taking advantage of a given situation.

There were a lot of savvy individuals in the Bush administration when this happened, and it was obvious to them that they could make some lemonade with the lemons they had been given. What politician doesn't spin the situation to their advantage?

I agree. They were likely quite prepared to take advantage of anything that might happen. Doesn't mean they had to make it happen.

[photon]

Originally Posted by Acey

I work with a guy who is convinced 9/11 was an inside job, convinced global warming doesn't exist, convinced Obama was born in Kenya and is a Muslim. This guy is seriously plagued by paranoia and rants about this stuff all day. Last week he was going on about the Flames, and these are pretty much his exact words, "the only reason the Flames moved to Calgary from Atlanta is because the Canadian government, which, by the way is run by the central banks... wanted to have more control over people and hockey provides a good distraction from world politics."

Said he wasn't going to go vote in Lethbridge today because the Illuminati controls all elections anyway so there's no point.

Lol, where do you work. My sister's new boyfriend is exactly like this. He emails me stuff every few days, and 99% of the time time email doesn't even say or support whatever it is he thinks he's trying to say.

FML.

[CrusaderPi]

Originally Posted by username

While I don't believe in the whole conspiracy part of this, there are a lot of strange coincidences that came out of this
1 - Americans became very scared of anyone with a middle Eastern background.
2 - The price of oil started to climb shortly after the 911/I.T. recession ended
3 – The US was in an energy crisis with the price of a gallon of gas reaching 3.50
4 – The fear generated from War on Terrorism was enough to convince Americans they needed to go to war against Iraq.
5 – The US takes control of Iraq and the first thing they do is secure the oil pipelines.
6 – A US friendly govt. takes over Iraq
7 – US oil companies are able to move into Iraq
8 – The United States secures possibly 3-4 millions barrels of conventional oil

Coincidence?

I love this post. Love it! You take the popular side in the argument while weakly calling it into question with the oh-so passive "coincidence" blast.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by photon

Lol, where do you work. My sister's new boyfriend is exactly like this. He emails me stuff every few days, and 99% of the time time email doesn't even say or support whatever it is he thinks he's trying to say.

Taking some time off school and working at the McCain plant east of Coaldale.

[photon]

Heh, I didn't mean it specifically Now the Illuminati knows where you work, I expect you to become part of a pizza pocket sometime soon.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by username

While I don't believe in the whole conspiracy part of this, there are a lot of strange coincidences that came out of this
1 - Americans became very scared of anyone with a middle Eastern background.
2 - The price of oil started to climb shortly after the 911/I.T. recession ended
3 – The US was in an energy crisis with the price of a gallon of gas reaching 3.50
4 – The fear generated from War on Terrorism was enough to convince Americans they needed to go to war against Iraq.
5 – The US takes control of Iraq and the first thing they do is secure the oil pipelines.
6 – A US friendly govt. takes over Iraq
7 – US oil companies are able to move into Iraq
8 – The United States secures possibly 3-4 millions barrels of conventional oil

Coincidence?

I don't buy any of those as coincidences.

1 - Americans became very scared of anyone with a middle Eastern background.

Thats naturally going to happen when men who came from the middle east murder thousands of your citizens. Thats not a coincidence its a natural emotional reaction

2 - The price of oil started to climb shortly after the 911/I.T. recession ended

Sure, but wouldn't that be a logical consequence of an war against one of the major oil producing companies in that region. Wouldn't the speculation be that supply would be suspect.

Combine that with American demand going up as they had to support a massive army in the field.

3 – The US was in an energy crisis with the price of a gallon of gas reaching 3.50

See above

4 – The fear generated from War on Terrorism was enough to convince Americans they needed to go to war against Iraq.

Again see the emotional response, for the first time America had been victimized by a major attack on their soil since Pearl Harbour. Honestly the vast majority of American's wanted to lash out, Afghanistan and Iraq to them were logical.

5 – The US takes control of Iraq and the first thing they do is secure the oil pipelines.

Not a coinkydink to me, its a pretty logical invasion strategy. You seize resources, cities, and towns.



6 – A US friendly govt. takes over Iraq

did you expect the American's to install a hostile government.

7 – US oil companies are able to move into Iraq

Thats how any country works in an invasion, first you conquor them, then you exploit them.

8 – The United States secures possibly 3-4 millions barrels of conventional oil

Yeah, but as an added side effect, basically occupying two countries has encoured far more debt then those millions of barrells of oil could ever possibly pay for, both in terms of lives and for dollars.

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I find it interesting that you brought up "A Project for a New American Century" as that document called for a "new Pearl Harbor event" to "rebuild Americas defenses"

I also believe the Shanksville plane was shot down by a scrambled jet.

The PNAC is a good example of how real conspiracies work. They're not necessarily shadowy figures in a back room coming up with evil plans for world domination. They can be public figures with a website coming up with plans that may or may not be evil for what may or may not be world domination. I would wager 90% of Americans have never heard of PNAC.

And if anyone can remember what led to the conclusive determination that plane was forced to ground by passengers, I'd like to be reminded. I just can't remember, and it just doesn't make sense to me. I mean, if Airplane taught me anything, the incapacitation of pilots on a commercial airliner is sure to result in one thing and one thing only: terrible, terrible jokes.

That really is a great movie...

Edit: For those unaware of the PNAC, this link takes you to their website, and in particular a 1998 letter that foreshadows much of what was to come in the lead up to the Iraq war.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by username

While I don't believe in the whole conspiracy part of this, there are a lot of strange coincidences that came out of this
1 - Americans became very scared of anyone with a middle Eastern background.
2 - The price of oil started to climb shortly after the 911/I.T. recession ended
3 – The US was in an energy crisis with the price of a gallon of gas reaching 3.50
4 – The fear generated from War on Terrorism was enough to convince Americans they needed to go to war against Iraq.
5 – The US takes control of Iraq and the first thing they do is secure the oil pipelines.
6 – A US friendly govt. takes over Iraq
7 – US oil companies are able to move into Iraq
8 – The United States secures possibly 3-4 millions barrels of conventional oil

Coincidence?

Conspiracy theorists fail to grasp that just because someone benefits from an event, it doesn't mean they perpetrated that event.

It's fine to say the Bush administration benefited from 9/11. It was a thought that occurred to me the day of the attacks even. However, looking over the evidence it's obvious that the Bush administration did not plan 9/11 and the standard story of events, save smaller details, are correct.

Obviously there were smaller cover-ups and distortions of the events of 9/11 by the Bush administration, and others in government. The 9/11 commission which wasn't thorough at all. The idea that United 93 was taken over by the passengers who then crash landed it and killed themselves seems fanciful and convenient. But that's not indicative of them planning 9/11. It's more indicative of people trying to save their jobs and reputations after a complete failure of government to do what people depend on them most for, protecting its citizens. And of politicians being politicians, trying to gain power during a time of instability.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I also believe the Shanksville plane was shot down by a scrambled jet.

If a scrambled jet was to shoot down a plane, the debris field would be spread over many miles, which in this case it wasn't. That is not to say that it was about to be shot down, case it has been reported that was what they were going to do. But it wasn't shot down

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

Conspiracy theorists fail to grasp that just because someone benefits from an event, it doesn't mean they perpetrated that event.

It's fine to say the Bush administration benefited from 9/11. It was a thought that occurred to me the day of the attacks even. However, looking over the evidence it's obvious that the Bush administration did not plan 9/11 and the standard story of events, save smaller details, are correct.

Obviously there were smaller cover-ups and distortions of the events of 9/11 by the Bush administration, and others in government. The 9/11 commission which wasn't thorough at all. The idea that United 93 was taken over by the passengers who then crash landed it and killed themselves seems fanciful and convenient. But that's not indicative of them planning 9/11. It's more indicative of people trying to save their jobs and reputations after a complete failure of government to do what people depend on them most for, protecting its citizens. And of politicians being politicians, trying to gain power during a time of instability.

And how can you say that America benefited in any way from the events of 9/11 though

1) Their economy is in shambles, and a big part of that was the spending on 2 occupations.
2) American's lost a lot of faith in their government
3) America's standing on their foreign policy got widly critized world wide
4) They lost a lot of their best and brightest in the war on terror.
5) They ushered in a new age of outright cynism domestically and abroad
6) Afghanistan is almost a lost war. Iraq will need to be constantly watched forever for the possibility of a rise of an extremist anti-american government.

The American's pretty well lost on nearly every front and are a weaker country almost in decline today.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

And how can you say that America benefited in any way from the events of 9/11 though

1) Their economy is in shambles, and a big part of that was the spending on 2 occupations.
2) American's lost a lot of faith in their government
3) America's standing on their foreign policy got widly critized world wide
4) They lost a lot of their best and brightest in the war on terror.
5) They ushered in a new age of outright cynism domestically and abroad
6) Afghanistan is almost a lost war. Iraq will need to be constantly watched forever for the possibility of a rise of an extremist anti-american government.

The American's pretty well lost on nearly every front and are a weaker country almost in decline today.

Are you talking about the soldiers?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

If a scrambled jet was to shoot down a plane, the debris field would be spread over many miles, which in this case it wasn't. That is not to say that it was about to be shot down, case it has been reported that was what they were going to do. But it wasn't shot down

Everything about that site screams nose down nerely vertical crash at speed.

If the U.S. would have shot that plane down with lets say a heatseeker to one of the jet engines, we would have seen debris from the explosion, and the plane probably wouldn't have gone in in such a contained manner as the pilots would have probably tried to nose up the plane on instinct.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Are you talking about the soldiers?

Yup

A lot of very young people died in these two occupations, and a lot more came back with incapacitating injuries.

While this wasn't the rip the heart out of a generation type of war like WWII, the loss of these kids will hurt any nation.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

And how can you say that America benefited in any way from the events of 9/11 though

1) Their economy is in shambles, and a big part of that was the spending on 2 occupations.
2) American's lost a lot of faith in their government
3) America's standing on their foreign policy got widly critized world wide
4) They lost a lot of their best and brightest in the war on terror.
5) They ushered in a new age of outright cynism domestically and abroad
6) Afghanistan is almost a lost war. Iraq will need to be constantly watched forever for the possibility of a rise of an extremist anti-american government.

The American's pretty well lost on nearly every front and are a weaker country almost in decline today.

I didn't say America benefited from 9/11, I said the Bush Administration did. Which turned out to be terrible for the United States. 9/11 allowed Bush to increase his power and promote his policies. The policies which are either directly responsible for, or a contributing factor to the recession in the United States.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

I didn't say America benefited from 9/11, I said the Bush Administration did. Which turned out to be terrible for the United States. 9/11 allowed Bush to increase his power and promote his policies. The policies which are either directly responsible for, or a contributing factor to the recession in the United States.

I'm not seeing that. It cost the Republican's any type of succession planning to implement those policies.

If his conspiracy was to increase power, it was the worst plan since Bugs handed Wil E Coyote a parachute that actually worked and walked him off of a cliff.

[driveway]

There's no way 9/11 was an inside job, it just doesn't make any kind of sense. Obviously, the Bush administration did what they could to benefit politically from the event, that's what politicians do. Every single politician out there tried to benefit while simultaneously deriding others for 'politicizing' 9/11.

If someone could present evidence, however, that Administration officials had prior knowledge, either specific or general, that a major terrorist attack was being planned on US soil and did little or nothing to prevent it; either out of laziness, not believing the evidence, or even a belief that an attack could be used for national or political gain, it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I'm not seeing that. It cost the Republican's any type of succession planning to implement those policies.

If his conspiracy was to increase power, it was the worst plan since Bugs handed Wil E Coyote a parachute that actually worked and walked him off of a cliff.

Immediate passing of the Patriot Act, the 2002 Midterm election (one of the only in US history that the ruling party gained seats), Iraq war, and the Democrats on the run until 2006. Politically it worked out well for Bush and Republicans. Republicans had control until they messed it up through incompetence and corruption.