Liberals popularity rising

[Cowperson]

A new poll finds the Liberals advancing to the point where they might have a majority government if elections were held today.

Why are Canadian conservatives at 25% in the polls given all the scandals and pecadillo's of their corrupt opponents?

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/sto...Story/National/

Cowperson

[Lurch]

Why? or why are you suprised? If scandal, poor management, unpopularity, etc had an impact on elections, how do you think Texas Republicans would do in the '06 Congressional elections? Between Tom DeLay, Georgie the unpopular prez and the woeful hurricane response in the southern states, you'd expect Democrats to bury the GOP in the south next year. Will it happen? About as likely as Mr. Charisma being the next PM of Canada.

[Incinerator]

Why? Because we're all commie sheeps, that's why :P

[CaptainCrunch]

I'm not going to lose sleep over a 1000 person poll.

Once again its Ontario thats going to drive a majority with the west having very little impact.

I have a funny feeling that if the Liberals win a majority this country will fracture with seperatists sentiments going through the roof in Quebec and Alberta

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Frankly I'm surprised it's taken this long for the Libs to get back in the saddle.

From the article:
"The population is coming to believe that it's just standard fare," Mr. Gregg said. "They're saying that's just how the political process works. There's cronyism. It's feathering your own nest."

To Captain's point - I think a Lib majority was a forgone conclusion. Quebec seperation will happen if the PQ can present a nice, safe, painless road to voters, which shoudn't be too hard at this point. Western seperation on the other hand can't go much further without someone leading the charge. Short of an NEP, we can't feel any more screwed or more ignored than we are.

Did I hear that the Libs hired Rod Love to consult on the Gomery report?

[troutman]

Separation? No thanks. When does it end? First Western Separation. Then there will be grumblings that Northern Alberta does not understand us. Then the Republic of Southern Alberta will splinter between the City-State of Calgary and the rural areas.

Rather than running away, the better approach is to improve things at the Federal level. Central Canada will vote for a PC type of party; the reformers have to go.

[Mike F]

Originally posted by Cowperson@Oct 19 2005, 07:33 AM
Why are Canadian conservatives at 25% in the polls given all the scandals and pecadillo's of their corrupt opponents?

This may be a big part of it:

The results also slow an increasing number of Canadians are warming to Mr. Martin's performance, while the bulk hold a negative image of Conservative Leader Stephen Harper.

The poll shows that 51 per cent hold an unfavourable view of Mr. Martin's performance, down from 58 per cent this past May, while Mr. Harper is viewed unfavorably by 58 per cent, compared with 50 per cent from the same period.

Mr. Gregg said Mr. Harper's negative image may be difficult to turn around.

"[Voters] just can't get a feel for him at a personal level," he said. "It's very tough. It's going to be very, very tough."

You can't convince people you're a viable alternative, which is what the Conservatives have to do with disillusioned swing voters, if they can't stand the face of your party.

And you can't fall back on the classic "fearmongering" excuse to explain personal dislike like this.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by Bend it like Bourgeois@Oct 19 2005, 03:23 PM
Frankly I'm surprised it's taken this long for the Libs to get back in the saddle.

From the article:
"The population is coming to believe that it's just standard fare," Mr. Gregg said. "They're saying that's just how the political process works. There's cronyism. It's feathering your own nest."

To Captain's point - I think a Lib majority was a forgone conclusion. Quebec seperation will happen if the PQ can present a nice, safe, painless road to voters, which shoudn't be too hard at this point. Western seperation on the other hand can't go much further without someone leading the charge. Short of an NEP, we can't feel any more screwed or more ignored than we are.

Did I hear that the Libs hired Rod Love to consult on the Gomery report?

The reason that I think that there will be a huge backlash in Alberta is that with a Liberal majority there will be no perceived checks and balances on the Liberals.

If they ram through Kyoto and keep the auto manufacturing exemption in place it will basically become a Oil and Gas tax grab

If the Liberal's keep slandering the Oil and gas industry and blaming the increase in gas prices on the west, the wall is going to go up.

If the Liberal's reduce the transfer payment burden on Ontario and leave Alberta's untouched there's going to be big problems.

The seperatist sentiment is underlying in Alberta, but the Liberal's are just stupid and arrogant enough to pour gas on it and spark it, and a Liberal majority where they can do what they want will be a good start, combined with the fact that only Canada would reward a corrupt party with a majority will only add to thier arrogance.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by troutman@Oct 19 2005, 03:37 PM
Separation? No thanks. When does it end? First Western Separation. Then there will be grumblings that Northern Alberta does not understand us. Then the Republic of Southern Alberta will splinter between the City-State of Calgary and the rural areas.

Rather than running away, the better approach is to improve things at the Federal level. Central Canada will vote for a PC type of party; the reformers have to go.

Separation might become the only viable alternative from a protest vote stance since the Conservatives can't make inroads into Ontario no matter who they have leading them.

Conservatism has become the poster boy for the West.

The only reason why I would support a Western Separatist party is so we can get the same kind of political clout as Quebec and actually force a place at the table in federal policies and politics, because going through the standard Canadian "democratic" process is fruitless when you have a government that thinks one of its regions is inherently evil and backwards thinking.

[CaramonLS]

I think it sucks that we need to hold a gun to the head of the country to try to get them to comply with out demands... that just is how it is going to be isn't it?

You've got the Libs taking lessons from Propaganda 101 and it working over the masses. The Liberal party (no thanks to Stockwell Day) has got the Conservatives painted as these religious Zealots who will turn over the country if they get into power.

[Blaster86]

When your party's leader looks like Satan, you're not going to win a popularity contest. Stephen Harper does little more than look creepy and whine at the Liberals. He had a LARGE opportunity to take the Liberals down and he blew it. He dropped the ball when he had a chance to run with it. There was a time there that I was actually worried we might see a Conservative majority. Then Stronach crossed the floor, Grewal got caught lying about being approached, Harper made no real attempts to make him look like a better alternative, and infact, actually lost popularity in areas where he already had it (BC).

He got out politiked by Martin. Martin may have used under-handed tactics and his government may be corrupt (I don't believe this, I believe they are genuine in saying that heads will roll) but Martin has been doing things like this in the Liberal party for years, so to see him out-wit Harper is not a surprise.

[Draug]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch@Oct 19 2005, 04:04 PM
Separation might become the only viable alternative from a protest vote stance since the Conservatives can't make inroads into Ontario no matter who they have leading them.

Conservatism has become the poster boy for the West.

The only reason why I would support a Western Separatist party is so we can get the same kind of political clout as Quebec and actually force a place at the table in federal policies and politics, because going through the standard Canadian "democratic" process is fruitless when you have a government that thinks one of its regions is inherently evil and backwards thinking.

That has become my viewpoint as well. I couldnt have articulated it better.

I used to hate Quebec for all of the seperatist talk. But now, I realize it may be the only way to be heard at all.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by Blaster86@Oct 19 2005, 04:18 PM
When your party's leader looks like Satan, you're not going to win a popularity contest. Stephen Harper does little more than look creepy and whine at the Liberals. He had a LARGE opportunity to take the Liberals down and he blew it. He dropped the ball when he had a chance to run with it. There was a time there that I was actually worried we might see a Conservative majority. Then Stronach crossed the floor, Grewal got caught lying about being approached, Harper made no real attempts to make him look like a better alternative, and infact, actually lost popularity in areas where he already had it (BC).

He got out politiked by Martin. Martin may have used under-handed tactics and his government may be corrupt (I don't believe this, I believe they are genuine in saying that heads will roll) but Martin has been doing things like this in the Liberal party for years, so to see him out-wit Harper is not a surprise.

Harper looks like Satan because of the inherant (sp?) coverage differences between the Eastern and Western media. The Liberal's have gotten way to many free passes, and no big deal statements.

Harper can't possibly win because the Liberal's either steal Conservative party positions or outright lie about them (Aircraft carriers)

Stronach crossing the floor had little to do with her own personal viewpoints, and more to do with getting a job that she's woefully underqualified for with the promise of the keys to the Liberal Power vaults.

Grewel lied, and the liberals lied, but somehow the Conservatives come out looking like Satan.

This whole garbage about the Conservatives wanting to ban abortion, dismantle the national healthcare program, and arm Canada is all Liberal creationism and interpretation, but sadly the average Canadian is too lazy to actually look into things on thier own, and they belive the Liberal party line.

I don't believe that any senior heads will roll over Gomery, or Dingwall, or the latest helicopter scandal, or the Gun Registry or the double tax on gas or the 8 million other questionable things that the Liberals are running.

But hey the Liberal's might act like the Mafia, but at least thier not conservatives right. They'll fire or suspend a few mid level staffers then parade that they're punished the guilty and damnit they've cleaned up thier act, and then when we look away they'll lift another few mil out of the federal vault.

A Alberta firewall or even seperation has to be discussed, because the rumblings and platform have been laid down, and if the Liberal's get the majority, they're going to rape the area of the country that has the least say in Federal Politics from a voter count standpoint in order to appease thier power base in Ontario.

Am I mad about the whole thing, not anymore, I kind of laugh at the stupidity of the whole thing. If a Western or Alberta seperation party ran in my riding in the next election, would I vote for it?

Tough question, on one hand, if the conservatives lose votes to a seperation party, then we guarantee a majority for a bunch of criminals and thier thugs. But conversly, maybe the only way that Alberta gets any say is to have a strong voice that dosen't care about selling out to Ottawa in order to keep confederation alive.

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch@Oct 19 2005, 04:04 PM
Conservatism has become the poster boy for the West.

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I know you will), but isn't it largely Alberta that is the Conservative poster-boy? Based on their provincial governments, it seems as though Saskatchewan and BC may not necessarily want to be a part of our Conservative Paradise.

I realize they vote Conservative federally... but how does that jive with their provincial/local voting habits? Which is the 'real' representation of these provinces dominant political ideologies?

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by Draug@Oct 19 2005, 04:19 PM
That has become my viewpoint as well. I couldnt have articulated it better.

I used to hate Quebec for all of the seperatist talk. But now, I realize it may be the only way to be heard at all.

I recall as a youngster hoping the Yes vote would win the referendum, thereby smashing confederation into it's provincial parts.

I always theorized that since Confederation is based, almost explicitly, on the representation of Ontario and Quebec, that taking Quebec out would require a 're-writing' of most Constitutional documents.

Once that happened, Ottawa could have invited Ralph to a 'Re-Confederation' conference, which he could have politely declined, making Alberta a de facto independent state.

Of course... I think that would be a terrible idea now. Unless we believe that we can ride Oil revenues almost solely from now until the end of time. And if we can... great, win/win for me!

[Mike F]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch@Oct 19 2005, 10:20 AM
Harper looks like Satan because of the inherant (sp?) coverage differences between the Eastern and Western media. The Liberal's have gotten way to many free passes, and no big deal statements.

Harper can't possibly win because the Liberal's either steal Conservative party positions or outright lie about them (Aircraft carriers)

Harper can't win because he's personally unappealing -- you can't blame that on eastern media giving the Libeals free passes, the Liberals stealing positions, Liberals lying, Liberals brainwshing, Liberals not caring about black people, Liberals causing global warming, etc.

People see Harper and hear him speak and are turned off, and the Liberals have nothing to do with it.

[Bertuzzied]

Those stupid tv commercials don't help Harper either. Whoever did those should be fired. That said, no commercial could ever help Harper. No one wants a Reform Party PM.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by Mike F@Oct 19 2005, 07:36 PM
Harper can't win because he's personally unappealing -- you can't blame that on eastern media giving the Libeals free passes, the Liberals stealing positions, Liberals lying, Liberals brainwshing, Liberals not caring about black people, Liberals causing global warming, etc.

People see Harper and hear him speak and are turned off, and the Liberals have nothing to do with it.

I think that Harper has become unappealing to people because the Liberal's are so good at slandering him as is the Eastern Media, and Harper has really refused to drop down to thier level.

Personally I would love to see the Conservatives being more aggressive about calling people like Martin and the Liberals out as oppossed to fighting an election based on the issues, or on a platform.

The only way the conservatives win is if they drop down to the same level as the Liberals.

Calling Martin a jackass, or calling the Liberals a bunch of criminal scumbags on national T.V. might not win many more votes, but it might change the countries opinion of him

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally posted by Bertuzzied@Oct 19 2005, 08:42 PM
Those stupid tv commercials don't help Harper either. Whoever did those should be fired. That said, no commercial could ever help Harper. No one wants a Reform Party PM.

Yeah, because the Liberal commercial that featured a gun pointing at your face was a professional commercial that certainly discussed the Liberal's policies and platform.

[Bertuzzied]

Originally posted by CaptainCrunch@Oct 19 2005, 03:43 PM
I think that Harper has become unappealing to people because the Liberal's are so good at slandering him as is the Eastern Media, and Harper has really refused to drop down to thier level.

Personally I would love to see the Conservatives being more aggressive about calling people like Martin and the Liberals out as oppossed to fighting an election based on the issues, or on a platform.

The only way the conservatives win is if they drop down to the same level as the Liberals.

Calling Martin a jackass, or calling the Liberals a bunch of criminal scumbags on national T.V. might not win many more votes, but it might change the countries opinion of him

This coming from the Conservative party who got reemed out for putting out a poster "Would you vote for someone who looks like this?" and a picture of Chretien and his crooked mouth getting out of bed.