2010 NCAA football thread....

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by transplant99

If the result was to go a long ways to determine who gets to play for NC game, hell yes they should. I mean why even have such a system when the play on the field/ice obviously doesnt determine anything? The "traditionalists" as I call them always say this sytem is just fine and even better than others because it makes every game of the season a do or die proposition...well if Bama stays ahead of the very team that just beat them, I say what a load of bunk that argument is.



These rankings are based on an entire years body of work and in the end have NO bearing on whether a guy plays for a championship, they still have to beat the opposition on the court/course. You know, prove they are better in competition, and not be voted in by some 300 lb cigar chewing bald sports writer or coach who truly may have never seen them play.

.

Which is why the whole system is a joke. What a bunch of guys "think" may be true before a snap is taken, has more bearing on the final results than what actually happens on the football field. How is ANYONE OK with that? It's laughable.



Ding ding ding ding!!!

Yes I'm ok with that. Because it's a ranking, not a standing. Alot of sports do it. Not everything has to be a set structure of regular season and playoffs.

There are year end championships in tennis and golf and they are determined by rankings of previous years and this year. They are also worth millions of dollars. Nadal could have a terrible 2011, win no tournaments and drop no lower than 5th? The following year he'll be hurting though. And next year Alabama will be hurting too, this one loss to South Carolina lasts a long time.

It's not what they 'think' may be true. It's not a prediction, it's a ranking of previous work. NCAA football doesn't start from scratch. They go "here's a ladder of teams from 1 to 25, you guys decide what happens next." As teams win they rise, as teams lose they drop but only slightly because of who they lost to. Alabama started the year #1 because they had won 19 in a row and are the defending champions, it's continuous. It's like a handicap because there are so many teams and the schedules are not balanced. Of course results on the field still matter. Alabama is not going unpunished for losing yesterday, they might not be #1 again for YEARS because of it. I would argue that it's even a steeper penalty then just losing one ordinary game because next year, they will start lower down the ladder because of it.

[transplant99]

There are year end championships in tennis and golf and they are determined by rankings of previous years and this year.

But everyone still has a chance to decide their fate...on the playing surface, rankings be damned. Thats the difference.

I completely understand the whole ranking system, and at one time it really was the only way to even come close to determining who was best in any given year. Things have changed.....massively.

When they started the bowl system it was because travel was a hinderance in having certain teams play each other. Trains and busses were all they had. That is no longer the case. Now any team can be anywhere in the country they need to be on a couple days notice. With the amount of $$ that football generates for the universities, it is a complete sham that those athletes and all fans of the game are still limited to what a computer/coaches poll determines will be the best match up at seasons end. There is NO reason not to allow the top teams face each other. None. Except greed. No one should be OK with that. Ever. Many of the schools we are talking about being both included and excluded exist because of public/state funding.

this is no longer "amateur athletics" as the NCAA deems it to be. Its business, and a big one at that. As such there should exist no monopolies on whom can and cannot participate, and if this ever does make its way into Congress under anti-trust violations, the BCS will probably become a long lost bad memory. I just think the NCAA should be proactive instead of reactive in this case and do the right thing. However, they wont. The fatcats that run the power conferences are far to afraid of losing money instead of thinking outside the box and actually expanding the revenues through a real world playoff system.

I want to see Boise St play Oregon with the winner facing the OSU/Utah winner who then get to face who comes out of a TCU/Nebraska/So Car/Auburn quartet. Who wouldnt? It would be a boon for college football and it would allow these guys who all train and play as hard as the guys on the other team, some hope to showcase themselves at seasons end. Instead I have jack fatsprat voting along with Houston Nutt telling me what they "think" the NC game should be. the whole thing is absurd at its very core.

If the whole bowl system really isnt about the NC game(as the trads often use in rebuttal) and all about the bowl tradition, then do away with the whole NC alltogether, never name a national champion again, and go on with collecting all the money while never truly knowing who was the best. i mean what does it matter if they get it right or wrong at that point?

That is what the traditionalists are asking those of us who see the whole thing for the farce it is. I refuse to accept it, and so should all college football fans and athletes.

[GirlySports]

Not really, the guy ranked #100 can't be ranked #1 at the end of the year even if he wins every tournament.

Anyways, now ^^ you've gone into the entire "the system sucks" argument which is a different issue. An argument I'm not going to get into.

I was only explaining why Alabama is still ranked ahead of South Carolina
Which they would be in a normal standing too since they're 5-1 and the Gamecocks are only 4-1 :P

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Yes I'm ok with that. Because it's a ranking, not a standing. Alot of sports do it. Not everything has to be a set structure of regular season and playoffs.

There are year end championships in tennis and golf and they are determined by rankings of previous years and this year. They are also worth millions of dollars. Nadal could have a terrible 2011, win no tournaments and drop no lower than 5th? The following year he'll be hurting though. And next year Alabama will be hurting too, this one loss to South Carolina lasts a long time.

It's not what they 'think' may be true. It's not a prediction, it's a ranking of previous work. NCAA football doesn't start from scratch. They go "here's a ladder of teams from 1 to 25, you guys decide what happens next." As teams win they rise, as teams lose they drop but only slightly because of who they lost to. Alabama started the year #1 because they had won 19 in a row and are the defending champions, it's continuous. It's like a handicap because there are so many teams and the schedules are not balanced. Of course results on the field still matter. Alabama is not going unpunished for losing yesterday, they might not be #1 again for YEARS because of it. I would argue that it's even a steeper penalty then just losing one ordinary game because next year, they will start lower down the ladder because of it.

Yeah, I was just having a look at Sagarin's ratings today, and on the metric that's included in BCS calculations, Alabama dropped from 1st all the way down to 17th. The top ten according to his formula are Boise, TCU, Oklahoma, Oregon, Michigan State, Oregon State, Stanford, LSU, Auburn, Nebraska. Ohio State is ranked 23rd (by far the easiest schedule of any team mentioned).

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt10.htm (The red column is the one relevant to the BCS).

Even if humans undervalue losses like the one yesterday, once the computers get involved in a couple weeks, they'll take it much more seriously, and that has an equalizing effect.

[transplant99]

bama falls to 8th...ahead of LSU (just ridiculous)


Top 10

OSU
Oregon
Boise
TCU
Nebraska
Oklahoma
Auburn
Alabama
LSU
South Carolina

http://espn.go.com/college-football/rankings

[nik-]

Originally Posted by transplant99

bama falls to 8th...ahead of LSU (just ridiculous)


Top 10

OSU
Oregon
Boise
TCU
Nebraska
Oklahoma
Auburn
Alabama
LSU
South Carolina

http://espn.go.com/college-football/rankings

Why, you think LSU is a better team than Bama? Seriously?

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by octothorp

Yeah, I was just having a look at Sagarin's ratings today, and on the metric that's included in BCS calculations, Alabama dropped from 1st all the way down to 17th. The top ten according to his formula are Boise, TCU, Oklahoma, Oregon, Michigan State, Oregon State, Stanford, LSU, Auburn, Nebraska. Ohio State is ranked 23rd (by far the easiest schedule of any team mentioned).

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/fbt10.htm (The red column is the one relevant to the BCS).

Even if humans undervalue losses like the one yesterday, once the computers get involved in a couple weeks, they'll take it much more seriously, and that has an equalizing effect.

Yup definitely. Alabama will be hurting. And Oregon will eventually be #1 as the Pac-10 seems really strong this year.

[Montana Moe]

As a die hard LSU fan, I can assure you that Bama is better. LSU can determine their own fate when they play Auburn, Bama, and Arkansas.

[PIMking]

Just got back from Gainesville from the LSU game.

Florida at first had no business winning that game and then had No business losing it...

LSU should of lost that game at the end. On 4th down on the person who fumbles the ball can advance it. Plain and simple. ( I said 4th down because that is how the rule say specifically 4th down)

The LSU fans didn't have much to say knowing that we were robbed.

Here is to both Auburn and Bama. Go in and beat the holy crap out of LSU.

I'm uploading my pics right now.

[PIMking]

Ahh yes a playoff system... Basically taking the importance of USCe win over Bama and throwing down the toilet. This is why CFB is better and more exciting the the NFL, CFL, AFL, or whatever pro league.

Every game means the world. A loss last night and USCe is toast (albiet a longshot) for a national title and a win last night and Florida is still in the hunt (even with how idiotic our OC is) for a national title.


Games mean something in CFB and unlike the NFL, one or two or even 3 or 4 losses doesn't mean squat to the owner or the players as long as they are in the playoffs they are still in the hunt for the championship. Nothing like having a team that won only half it's games winning the Superbowl...

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by PIMking

Ahh yes a playoff system... Basically taking the importance of USCe win over Bama and throwing down the toilet. This is why CFB is better and more exciting the the NFL, CFL, AFL, or whatever pro league.

Every game means the world. A loss last night and USCe is toast (albiet a longshot) and a win last night and Florida is still in the hunt (even with how idiotic our OC is)

Games mean something and unlike the NFL one or two or even 3 or 4 losses don't mean squat to the owner or the players as long as they are in the playoffs.

You're not allowed to feel this way you know... it's a farce and unacceptable.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

You're not allowed to feel this way you know... it's a farce and unacceptable.

Yea, God forbid us from wanting make games count...

[theonlywhiteout]

just thought I'd mention I'm coming to Tennessee on October 24th for the Alabama game. You comin' out to Knoxville PIM?

[PIMking]

If I were a Bama fan I would.

I'm more than likely done traveling to games this year. just spent so much cash in the last year and half on football games from sugar bowl and numerous Bama games and UF games.

I'm gonna save up some cash to go to Baton Rouge vs UF, Auburn vs UF, and back to Gainesville vs Bama.

The only reason why I'm gonna start to save now is because last time we had LSU, Bama, and Auburn all on the same sched we played them back to back to back.

So, three straight weekends of traveling.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by PIMking

Ahh yes a playoff system... Basically taking the importance of USCe win over Bama and throwing down the toilet. This is why CFB is better and more exciting the the NFL, CFL, AFL, or whatever pro league.

Every game means the world. A loss last night and USCe is toast (albiet a longshot) for a national title and a win last night and Florida is still in the hunt (even with how idiotic our OC is) for a national title.


Games mean something in CFB and unlike the NFL, one or two or even 3 or 4 losses doesn't mean squat to the owner or the players as long as they are in the playoffs they are still in the hunt for the championship. Nothing like having a team that won only half it's games winning the Superbowl...

Bang on.

Here's a pretty good comparison of the NCAA and the NFL:
Defending National Champs Alabama loses - major shake-up in the college football world
Defending Super Bowl Champs New Orleans loses - shrug of the shoulders, call it a bad game and get ready for the next 11 weeks.

[theonlywhiteout]

Originally Posted by JayP

Bang on.

Here's a pretty good comparison of the NCAA and the NFL:
Defending National Champs Alabama loses - major shake-up in the college football world
Defending Super Bowl Champs New Orleans loses - shrug of the shoulders, call it a bad game and get ready for the next 11 weeks.

this is what makes CFB amazing. Some people just don't get it tho, they're used to the garbage like 6 teams out of 8 making the CFL playoffs or the almost as bad NFL playoff system where 12-4 teams miss the playoffs and an 8-8 division winner gets thru

[ricoFlame]

ESPN's Brad Edwards projected BCS rankings:

1. Boise State .913
2. Oregon .863
3. TCU .854
4. Oklahoma .8425
5. Ohio State .8421
6. LSU .782
7. Nebraska .777
8. Auburn .744
9. Michigan State .642
10. Alabama .634

First BCS rankings come out Sunday night

[moon]

Originally Posted by PIMking

Ahh yes a playoff system... Basically taking the importance of USCe win over Bama and throwing down the toilet. This is why CFB is better and more exciting the the NFL, CFL, AFL, or whatever pro league.

Every game means the world. A loss last night and USCe is toast (albiet a longshot) for a national title and a win last night and Florida is still in the hunt (even with how idiotic our OC is) for a national title.


Games mean something in CFB and unlike the NFL, one or two or even 3 or 4 losses doesn't mean squat to the owner or the players as long as they are in the playoffs they are still in the hunt for the championship. Nothing like having a team that won only half it's games winning the Superbowl...

Every game does not mean the world because now the SEC championship game is likely meaningless, in a play-off system the game would still be huge.

Every game for Alabama is virtually meaningless now but another loss in a play-off system would be killer meaning that their games from here on out would be key.

Every game for TCU is meaningless every season but in a play-off system would be important.

Michigan's game are meaningless but would matter under a play-off system.

The crap that only in this ######ed system do games matter is just that crap. Games would still be important under a play-off system and in many seasons, if not all, there would be a lot more important games and certainly teams with more to play for later on in the season rather than teams having their seasons end as early as the first game of the season and then just going through the motions for the rest of the year.

[PIMking]

Originally Posted by moon

Every game does not mean the world because now the SEC championship game is likely meaningless, in a play-off system the game would still be huge.

Every game for Alabama is virtually meaningless now but another loss in a play-off system would be killer meaning that their games from here on out would be key.

Every game for TCU is meaningless every season but in a play-off system would be important.

Michigan's game are meaningless but would matter under a play-off system.

The crap that only in this ######ed system do games matter is just that crap. Games would still be important under a play-off system and in many seasons, if not all, there would be a lot more important games and certainly teams with more to play for later on in the season rather than teams having their seasons end as early as the first game of the season and then just going through the motions for the rest of the year.

Wrong again buckaroo.

A one loss or even a two loss team has won a National title. (LSU and Florida)

The rest of Bama's schedule is more important now after the loss because another slip up then they are two games in the hole in the SECw standings. If they don't win the SECw they wont go to the SEC championship game and wont play for a bcs bowl.

So using your logic, Since teams like Bama and USCe have only one loss they might as well roll over and not play anymore? Why? Because they have nothing to play for?

They have everything to play for. Mich is probabaly done since they were not that good of a team to begin with. It was just like last year and "the U is back" crap.

Bama is still alive, USCe is still alive, but Bama has to beat two more top ten teams to get to the seccg in LSU and AllBarn (auburn is considered the farm school)

plenty to be excited about right now. Hell nothing like watching a team like SD or Indy struggle out of the gate with two or three losses only to know that they will pull it together and make the playoffs. Let's see a college program that won the championship last year do that and get back to the big dance. It wouldn't happen, and that is why the CFB sched and game is better than anything the NFL can throw out.

[GirlySports]

None of those scenarios you mention are meaningless to me.

There are only 2 spots for the national championship but there are other things too.
Alabama needs to win out to make a BCS Bowl. It might not be the National Championship game but it's still millions of dollars. Alabama still has an outside shot at the title as well, long odds though.

TCU can still make it if they win out and things go right. Win out and they make a BCS Bowl game and win THAT. TCU losing to BSU last year put them down a peg.

Michigan also needs to continue winning to go up in the rankings. BCS Bowl bid at stake again.

I wouldn't go as far as games don't matter in the NFL. A couple of losses can get a team into a hole really quick (ask Dallas!). College Football is more on rankings from season to season so it's a bit more unique. You build season to season instead of starting from scratch every year. The NFL season this year is mediocre crazy. Is this what College Football wants? We gone over this before, not sure a playoff can be done, number of games, timing, travel, automatic bids etc.... we've gone over all this before earlier in the thread