NHL 11 General Discussion

[Matata]

Originally Posted by Jayems

Yikes. I've never been so high on a game and then turned off so quickly.

I expected to meet some stacked teams in the playoffs, but it was ridiculous. After beating some team in the high 80s without much effort, I meet a team with 97 o, 94d and I don't know what their goalie was at, but it was varlamov and I can only assume he was at 99ov.

I totally dominate the guy, and varlamov makes ridiculous save after ridiculous save.

He gets into my end, flicks a wrister from the blue line... it goes in. Every @#$@#$ time.

Ends 5-2. So. Friggin. Lame.

I don't mind losing, but not like that.

What's the point of playing it just to meet ridiculous cheesers in the playoffs.

My HUT team is about a 77 overall rating. I stopped playing against any team that have an 85+ overall rating, it's just too frustrating to be outplaying people but lose every puck battle and being a step behind all game.

Also, my star D-mans name is 'Clitsome'.

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Yanda

What do you guys think of Be a GM Mode?? Im a few months into my first season but I think this has become my favorite mode now that the game has been out awhile. Did a Fantasy Draft and this is what I got...

Z. Parise - D. Bolland - D. Brown
S. Gagne - D. Legwand - M. Hejduk
S. Samsonov - B. Boyle - N. Bergfors
D. King - A. Mair - T. Jackman
E. Godard

C. Barker - B. Coburn
L. Smid - R. O'Byrne
P. Subban - R. Parent

T. Rask
B. Johnson

Can't (well, refuse to) play it because of the 1500 XP cap, and a slew of other bugs that may or may not be addressed in a patch in November.

They should pro-rate the cost of their games for the 2-3 months that it is absolutely busted.

[3 Justin 3]

Originally Posted by Jayems

Yikes. I've never been so high on a game and then turned off so quickly.

I expected to meet some stacked teams in the playoffs, but it was ridiculous. After beating some team in the high 80s without much effort, I meet a team with 97 o, 94d and I don't know what their goalie was at, but it was varlamov and I can only assume he was at 99ov.

I totally dominate the guy, and varlamov makes ridiculous save after ridiculous save.

He gets into my end, flicks a wrister from the blue line... it goes in. Every @#$@#$ time.

Ends 5-2. So. Friggin. Lame.

I don't mind losing, but not like that.

What's the point of playing it just to meet ridiculous cheesers in the playoffs.

This is the exact reason why I quit 3 weeks ago. 6 goals in 9 shots, all from the hash marks or further back. It got ridiculous. Couldn't take it, moved on to Halo.

[dobbles]

question for those that are playing gm mode.

i tried it out after launch to see how all the offseason rfa stuff worked and just the general play. one thing i noticed was that when my players earned xp and applied it to their stats, it would go in clumps to individual attributes. additionally it seemed to be worthless attributes.

i am so sick of my wingers and dmen investing their XP into their faceoff skill. sure for a winger a point here or there wont hurt; but they do it way to much. even in older versions, it would often be the single most upgraded stat through the season. i noticed in my quick glance this year that players seemed to apply all increased to 1 stat. for instance, a player would earn 8 upgrades and 4 would be on fighting and the other 4 on faceoffs. no skating upgrades, shooting upgrades, etc.

anyone else have any experience with this? was it just my game? is it another of the laundry list of changes that must be patched?

maybe someday they will actually allow the gm to manage the player upgrades. for many it might not matter, but i would love the ability to actually appropriately develop my players. (also i know there is the ability to at least guide what area the skater should work on, but in my experience the assistant coach would always change them back. i would tell a guy to work on shooting then go back in a few games later and he was set to work on skating. it was useless. havent tried it in 11 though)

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by 3 Justin 3

This is the exact reason why I quit 3 weeks ago. 6 goals in 9 shots, all from the hash marks or further back. It got ridiculous. Couldn't take it, moved on to Halo.

What kind of defense are you playing?

I have a fairly AHL level HUT team, and been mostly using 65-75 OVR goalies. However I've been winning many games against opponents that have a much more talented lineup. I've only lost about 3 online games thus far, each of them being by one goal, and it's normally due to me giving up a stupid goal that could've been completely avoided. If you're not playing good positional defense and letting your goalies see the puck, you guys are going to get toast. The game this year demands a lot more 'smart hockey play' rather than 'video game hockey play' and letting the goalie bail you out a lot. If you play smart, you have a chance to win any game despite the difference in team skills.

[Yanda]

Originally Posted by Yamer

Can't (well, refuse to) play it because of the 1500 XP cap, and a slew of other bugs that may or may not be addressed in a patch in November.

They should pro-rate the cost of their games for the 2-3 months that it is absolutely busted.

oh, well tbh Im ok with the 1500 xp limit. Like guys shouldnt improve like they do in BAP mode (72-80 OV in 1 season). In previous versions you would play a dynasty or season and nobody would get xp and it was still fun. I understand the hardcore fans are going to be letdown because the game looked so full of potential when we all picked it up a month ago.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by Joborule

What kind of defense are you playing?

I have a fairly AHL level HUT team, and been mostly using 65-75 OVR goalies. However I've been winning many games against opponents that have a much more talented lineup. I've only lost about 3 online games thus far, each of them being by one goal, and it's normally due to me giving up a stupid goal that could've been completely avoided. If you're not playing good positional defense and letting your goalies see the puck, you guys are going to get toast. The game this year demands a lot more 'smart hockey play' rather than 'video game hockey play' and letting the goalie bail you out a lot. If you play smart, you have a chance to win any game despite the difference in team skills.

see i disagree. i still don't think the game rewards smart hockey. i played hut offline only and i think in both ends real hockey play wasn't rewarded. in the offensive zone i love to move the puck. i pass back to the point a lot and get chances from there. i work it down low and behind the net. i cycle the puck. i work for chances and shots down low that i see in real hockey. however, it never works. i still end up relying on the same 5 general shots/areas that allow goals. instead of having a 5-10% chance on scoring from legit hockey spots, i find most places yield <1% chance of success and certain special spots yield 40-50% chance. they aren't quite blatent glitches like years passed, but to score you have to do the same thing over and over to beat the cpu.

as far as the defensive zone, i think the game once again doesn't reward realistic hockey play. i find i have to be super aggressive; i find if i don't, if the computer is given any time and space to shoot from roughly anywhere in the zone. their shooting percentage is often 20% or more i find. i will limit them to 7 shots and they still get 2 or 3 goals. their shooting ability is uncanny. i have found the only way to prevent chances is to be super aggressive and constantly check them so they get no space. their continued ability to pass with 100% accuracy makes it super unrealistic. it is especially apparent on the PK imo. when playing a more realistic relaxed style that gives some space to them, they will move the puck insanely efficiently and as i mentioned as soon as they get space to shoot they snipe a corner. once again i find that unrealistic. the only way to prevent it is to be super aggressive and constantly attack the puck carrier. thats not real hockey.

and please don't take my analysis as hate because i can't beat the cpu. i still win 90% of the time i think. its just frustrating to play in a non realistic manner. i realize no game will ever be totally realistic, i just feel the game continues to reward poor play.

Originally Posted by Yanda

oh, well tbh Im ok with the 1500 xp limit. Like guys shouldnt improve like they do in BAP mode (72-80 OV in 1 season). In previous versions you would play a dynasty or season and nobody would get xp and it was still fun. I understand the hardcore fans are going to be letdown because the game looked so full of potential when we all picked it up a month ago.

i am not ok with it. in real life players effectively grow by large amounts in their early seasons. the difference is in real life that players also regress. and the game doesn't account for that near enough. if a player has a bad year he still grows or at worst stays the same with a few improvements. only when the player is over 35 does he lose any attributes. i think the other thing is the game does is poorly escalate the cost of upgrades. sure the prices increase as stats get higher, but the top end stuff should be insanely expensive. i find the progression too linear and not exponential enough.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by dobbles

see i disagree. i still don't think the game rewards smart hockey. i played hut offline only and i think in both ends real hockey play wasn't rewarded. in the offensive zone i love to move the puck. i pass back to the point a lot and get chances from there. i work it down low and behind the net. i cycle the puck. i work for chances and shots down low that i see in real hockey. however, it never works. i still end up relying on the same 5 general shots/areas that allow goals. instead of having a 5-10% chance on scoring from legit hockey spots, i find most places yield <1% chance of success and certain special spots yield 40-50% chance. they aren't quite blatent glitches like years passed, but to score you have to do the same thing over and over to beat the cpu.

Is that a fault of the game though or your skill? I do the same things as you, but you can't just expect for to do the passes and then the goalie is going to open space for you to get a goal from. You still have to do some work in getting to set up good scoring chances and fight into hot spots. You got to be fast in decision making and taking advantage of open space of course since hockey is a fast paced sport. I've gotten numerous goals from nicely set up hockey players on the Superstar skill level. There still are goals that may go in more time then they should do to AI, but that's natural for a game of course since AI is still in need of improvement each year. But you don't have to go for the same goals all the time unless those are the only types you can score against the AI and human opponents. I don't think that's necessarily a due to a major fault in the game.

as far as the defensive zone, i think the game once again doesn't reward realistic hockey play. i find i have to be super aggressive; i find if i don't, if the computer is given any time and space to shoot from roughly anywhere in the zone. their shooting percentage is often 20% or more i find. i will limit them to 7 shots and they still get 2 or 3 goals. their shooting ability is uncanny. i have found the only way to prevent chances is to be super aggressive and constantly check them so they get no space. their continued ability to pass with 100% accuracy makes it super unrealistic. it is especially apparent on the PK imo. when playing a more realistic relaxed style that gives some space to them, they will move the puck insanely efficiently and as i mentioned as soon as they get space to shoot they snipe a corner. once again i find that unrealistic. the only way to prevent it is to be super aggressive and constantly attack the puck carrier. thats not real hockey.

Once again I don't do the opposite to play defense. I stick to the man, but I don't have to knock them down in order to stop them. I work on trapping them into tight spaces and using my stick to poke against the puck or stick lift. As long as I stay between them and the net, I'm doing a farily good job at preventing good shots.

and please don't take my analysis as hate because i can't beat the cpu. i still win 90% of the time i think. its just frustrating to play in a non realistic manner. i realize no game will ever be totally realistic, i just feel the game continues to reward poor play.

Each year the game will get more realistic and poor play will lose effectiveness. Go from NHL 08 > NHL 09 > NHL 10 to NHL 11 and each year feels so ancient and arcadish compared to the previous version. So it's not like the devs aren't working on making a truly sim game.

As playing in a non realistic manner, I have no issues winning the most difficult games in a fairly realistic style of play. Heck, I play with the Calgary Flames and my HUT team with a conservative offense attack and a contain puck attack. I look to prevent goals by keeping the opposing team on the outside, limit odd man rushes, avoid turnovers, and attack on the other teams mistakes. Fairly realistic style of play. Not to be harsh on those that poor play is reward too much still, but is this a issue with the game being too difficult for players to score goals and play good positional defense, or should the blame be put on the player skill itself and not being good enough yet to expand their play creativity? Because I don't feel the game rewards poor play and rather penalize poor play. If a player plays a sloppy game and you take advantage of his mistakes, you should win many more times then not. If he plays sloppy but you don't take advantage, then perhaps you aren't doing too much either and testing the opposing goalie well enough.

[dobbles]

jobo, that was a good response. i may take the time later to debate some more with you.

but i do want to say this too: i know in the past when you take your time to play the mode that you are one of the top versus players out there. so in all fairness, you're going to have a pretty different opinion than a lot of people. there are a lot of people and a lot of skill levels out there. you find it easy to score in traditional ways as you are good. i think for those of us regular folks, things can be a lot different.

also, on just about every board i read about nhl, you always have folks with posts like this: "i outshot my opponent 35-8 and led in TOA 14:20 to 2:45 and yet i still lost" and even though the standard internet response is 'you obviously suck and need to get better', IMO it happens to enough people that i see it as a problem.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by dobbles

also, on just about every board i read about nhl, you always have folks with posts like this: "i outshot my opponent 35-8 and led in TOA 14:20 to 2:45 and yet i still lost" and even though the standard internet response is 'you obviously suck and need to get better', IMO it happens to enough people that i see it as a problem.

I see this a lot as well, but shot numbers only say one thing. It's the quality of the shots that matter. I will gladly give up 35 shots a game and only have 8 for myself. As long as my 8 shots were in prime scoring spots while the opposing players we're from spots my goalie can handle with ease, it shouldn't be unexpected that I came out the victor. When it's the case that the goalie you face is a wall and the your goalie let in two softies that should've been stopped with little difficulty, then that's when frustration is warranted. However those games do happen, and it's not like they happen with great frequency. Otherwise winning games become more of a case of luck rather then team performances.

[dobbles]

in that specific example, toa is almost always really lopsided as well. and i really don't think that the team with 8 shots and 3 minutes toa is exactly doing well on offense. i realize that just because theres 35 shots doesn't mean they are quality. however, remember one of the oldest adages of hockey is 'get the puck on net.' and its true because getting shots usually generates chances. especially in modern hockey where most goals are ugly; tips, deflections, rebounds, funny bounces, etc.

i just feel like too often, people deflect honest and valid criticism of the game and assume its because the person sucks or because they aren't playing right. thats not always the case and i would venture to say its not usually the case either. you know darned well we have played enough eashl games together to have been in a lot that the team that plays more legit hockey loses a lot. heck, its why in that mode teams with just 2 forwards have always been successful. sure they aren't going to beat 7bk with their cherry picking and poor play, but they are generally successful.

[Flash Walken]

Dobbles, I agree with you to a certain extent.

I will say, however, that I think the AI is overall a million times better than last game. Especially things like how you can interact with the opposition goalie. Screening was useless last year, and now I score all the time with it.

The other thing is too, is that I used to be one of those guys that had tonnes of shots and time on attack. Logo burners count as shots, but they are never dangerous. Now that I am used to superstar, I'm not so desperate to just get any shot on net anymore.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The other thing is too, is that I used to be one of those guys that had tonnes of shots and time on attack. Logo burners count as shots, but they are never dangerous. Now that I am used to superstar, I'm not so desperate to just get any shot on net anymore.

This is where you are potentially wrong though. I’m am almost certain that one of the features that was introduced either last year or this year (I think it was last year) is goalie fatigue, and this is tied to shot volume.

So when you let your opponent have 35 so-called logo burners, you are allowing your goalie to wear down, and that’s when those softies start creeping in.

My hunch is goalies have another undisclosed stat as well - my friend and I call it the sh*t switch - it’s not uncommon for a goalie that surrenders a goal to suddenly nosedive in ability, and be susceptible to letting in 2-3 more bad ones in rapid succession. Once that switch is flipped, its time for a goalie change if you want any chance of getting back in the game.


Also, for those that are interested, TOA and shots, based on my statistical analysis (I keep the email records for every game I play, going back to when they introduced that feature), have little correlation to who will win a game online. The winner, in greater than 80% of all games, can be predicted by looking at the passing numbers. The team with more passing almost always wins. From my own subjective analysis of games played too, the greater the disparity in passing numbers, the more lopsided the overall match is (irrespective of score).

[Komskies]

When can we expect final roster updates? I'm pumped to start my Be a GM with the actual Flames lineup.

[DownhillGoat]

Thought I'd give BAP a shot for the first time since 09. Drafted #1 by Edmonton. Time go go back to Be a GM, I think...

[Yamer]

I just went to play this game for the first time in weeks and decided to play a WHL season as the Rebs. As soon as I go to play against Saskatoon the game has a neverending loading screen. Come to find out this is a common problem.

Is there any part of this game that isn't broken? Even the soundtrack cuts in and out. AND we have to wait till November(?) for a patch.

[zukes]

I am saddened by this, but I haven't played NHL 11 in a couple weeks. I haven't played much of anything because I've been busy, but when I have been playing, I have gone back to NCAA 11.

Maybe once the seaosn starts. I started a Be A GM and it started well enough, a tough (if unrealistic) loss to the Oilers 5-4. Good, I like that I will have to work for my wins. Next game 9-1 over L.A. Okay, maybe I just was awesome and LA's goalie were awful?

Florida 4-3 win in a shoot-out. Now we're talking.

Next game, against the Oilers? 8-0. WTF!

I haven't played since, but i really don't want to have to play a million games to figure out settings and then start my seaosn over. Meh. NCAA is my game of the year this year thus far.

[-TC-]

I just finished season mode with the Flames. I played 30 reg season games and sim'd the rest. I finished first overall and won the Cup.

The thing that was most surprising was that my winning % in sim mode was about 70%, with no trades and as close to the opening day roster (less the injuries) as I could get.

[Mightyfire89]

I haven't bought this game yet and I'm not sure I will. Have they fixed the faceoffs when you're playing against the CPU? In years past if you were in the offensive zone, you'd be lucky to win a faceoff 5% of the time. That's honestly one of the main reasons I won't buy this series anymore. It was driving me absolutely crazy the last couple years. Plus the goddamn cheese goals when playing online. You don't get rewarded for playing real style hockey.

If they have fixed the faceoffs, I may rent it and see how it goes, but I'm pretty sure EA has gotten their last dollars out of me for a hockey game.

/mini-rant

[TSXCman]

Originally Posted by Jimmy Krack Korn

I haven't bought this game yet and I'm not sure I will. Have they fixed the faceoffs when you're playing against the CPU? In years past if you were in the offensive zone, you'd be lucky to win a faceoff 5% of the time. That's honestly one of the main reasons I won't buy this series anymore. It was driving me absolutely crazy the last couple years. Plus the goddamn cheese goals when playing online. You don't get rewarded for playing real style hockey.

If they have fixed the faceoffs, I may rent it and see how it goes, but I'm pretty sure EA has gotten their last dollars out of me for a hockey game.

/mini-rant

faceoffs are completely redone, and very interesting now. So satisfying to flip the puck through a centers legs, burn the D and score in a couple seconds.

Haven't noticed the trend you are looking for, so it most likely isn't there.

I'm wondering if they are going to fix the XP cap for Be A GM mode? or is it supposed to be there? Some players don't get to progress at all with it