What can be done? Iran

[CaptainCrunch]

Don't encourage it, this is a guy that basically said that the President of Iran is correct about 9/11.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Don't confuse fascism with hardcore religious beliefs. And frankly, those issues are none of America's business.
Israel ...the land of hypocrites. I would say they are doing a fine job at wiping Palestinians off the map.

Perhaps you should read up on your demographics then. I'm not trying to downplay the suffering of Palestinians, but they are the fastest growing population on the planet. They are in no danger whatsoever of being wiped off the map.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by blankall

Perhaps you should read up on your demographics then. I'm not trying to downplay the suffering of Palestinians, but they are the fastest growing population on the planet. They are in no danger whatsoever of being wiped off the map.

This "wiped off the map" comment that Ahmadinejad supposedly said has been mis-interpreted and used as propaganda here in North America.

Because of the North American media, everyone thinks that Iran wants to nuke Israel out of existance without provocation.....it is ridiculous.

He didn't insinuate in any way that Israel should be "wiped off the map" by bombing them or whatever.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...xt=va&aid=4527

Iran is not an aggressive nation, and as far as I know has never invaded any other country. If you read quotes from Irans other officials they often say something to the effect of "If Israel decides to strike we will .....bla bla bla".

From the article:
Before we get to the infamous remark, it's important to note that the "quote" in question was itself a quote— they are the words of the late Ayatollah Khomeini, the father of the Islamic Revolution.

"The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time".

Word by word translation:

Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Oh really, so tell us how many Palestinians have been killed in the last twenty years? Your hateful rants are simply lame.

Wow, criticism = hate now Nage?

You must work for the Anti-Defamation League.....

[peter12]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Wow, criticism = hate now Nage?

You must work for the Anti-Defamation League.....

Oh man.

[Flacker]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Israel ...the land of hypocrites. I would say they are doing a fine job at wiping Palestinians off the map.

Yes hateful, I could also add anti-semitic and grossly misinformed. The conflict is more about settlement agreements than armed conflict. The Isrealis may be restricting freedoms and movement but there is no genocide occuring in Isreal. But when Palestinians are strapping explosives to themselves and hopping on your buses and strolling your streets they need to take proactive action to protect themselves.If the Isrealis would stop claiming Palestinian land and settling it with Israelis the conflict could be resolved. They are taking land from them that they have no historical or legitimate claim to. It would piss any of us off if the shoe was on the other foot. That being said the extremists (Isreali or Palestinian) do everything in their power to keep the cycle of hatred spinning. (propoganda, unprovoked attacks, etc)

[blankall]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

This "wiped off the map" comment that Ahmadinejad supposedly said has been mis-interpreted and used as propaganda here in North America.

Because of the North American media, everyone thinks that Iran wants to nuke Israel out of existance without provocation.....it is ridiculous.

He didn't insinuate in any way that Israel should be "wiped off the map" by bombing them or whatever.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...xt=va&aid=4527

Iran is not an aggressive nation, and as far as I know has never invaded any other country. If you read quotes from Irans other officials they often say something to the effect of "If Israel decides to strike we will .....bla bla bla".

From the article:
Before we get to the infamous remark, it's important to note that the "quote" in question was itself a quote— they are the words of the late Ayatollah Khomeini, the father of the Islamic Revolution.

"The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time".

Word by word translation:

Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).

Like most fascists, Ahmadinejad is also a coward. He hides behind Lebanese women and children and gets Hezbollah to do his dirty work for him.

Hezbollah is using Iranian weapons, training, intelligence, and possibly command and troops. So, yes, Iran has already struck Israel many many times.

As for the translation you are speaking of, the "wiped off the map" translation originally came from the Iranian governments own news source.

Whether or not Ahmadinejad has called for genocide or not is pretty irrelevant in my opinion. He constantly calls for destruction of the Israeli government while simultaneously making indiscriminate attacks on Israeli civilians through his proxy army Hezbollah.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

This "wiped off the map" comment that Ahmadinejad supposedly said has been mis-interpreted and used as propaganda here in North America.

Because of the North American media, everyone thinks that Iran wants to nuke Israel out of existance without provocation.....it is ridiculous.

He didn't insinuate in any way that Israel should be "wiped off the map" by bombing them or whatever.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.p...xt=va&aid=4527

Iran is not an aggressive nation, and as far as I know has never invaded any other country. If you read quotes from Irans other officials they often say something to the effect of "If Israel decides to strike we will .....bla bla bla".

From the article:
Before we get to the infamous remark, it's important to note that the "quote" in question was itself a quote— they are the words of the late Ayatollah Khomeini, the father of the Islamic Revolution.

"The Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time".

Word by word translation:

Imam (Khomeini) ghoft (said) een (this) rezhim-e (regime) ishghalgar-e (occupying) qods (Jerusalem) bayad (must) az safheh-ye ruzgar (from page of time) mahv shavad (vanish from).

To me the complete quote looks like this

Our dear Imam (referring to Ayatollah Khomeini) said that the occupying regime must be wiped off the map for great justice and this was a very wise statement. We cannot compromise over the issue of Palestine. Is it possible to create a new front in the heart of an old front. This would be a defeat and whoever accepts the legitimacy of this regime has in fact, signed the defeat of the Islamic world. Our dear Imam targeted the heart of the world oppressor in his struggle, meaning the occupying regime. I have no doubt that the new wave that has started in Palestine, and we witness it in the Islamic world too, will eliminate this disgraceful stain from the Islamic world.[2]

So while he did not directly say that the regime should be wiped off of the map, that it was Khomein who stated it and he agreed. And make no mistake, when he talks about the "Regime" he is talking about the "State"

And I wonder what your thoughts are on

But translators in Tehran who work for the president's office and the foreign ministry disagree with them. All official translations of Mr. Ahmadinejad's statement, including a description of it on his website, refer to wiping Israel away. Sohrab Mahdavi, one of Iran’s most prominent translators, and Siamak Namazi, managing director of a Tehran consulting firm, who is bilingual, both say “wipe off” or “wipe away” is more accurate than "vanish" because the Persian verb is active and transitive.

I also call into question your assertation that Iran is not an aggressive nation. Iran is an aggressive nation in terms of asymetrical warfare. While their army doesn't march into other countries, they do conduct offensive opporations through the funding, arming and training of various extremely active terrorist groups. Examples of this are Hezbollah, Hamas, the Iraqi Insurgent movements.

Now the question that I have to logically ask is do you want Iran a nation that trains and arms terrorists that have a stated destruction of Israel as their goals to be able to gain access to nuclear materials.

Abercrazy is an anti-semetic holocaust denier who doesn't recognize the State of Israel or their democratically elected government.

And in terms of the explanations of what he says by his governmental officals, its called spin doctoring and nothing more.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by Flacker

Yes hateful, I could also add anti-semitic and grossly misinformed. The conflict is more about settlement agreements than armed conflict. The Isrealis may be restricting freedoms and movement but there is no genocide occuring in Isreal. But when Palestinians are strapping explosives to themselves and hopping on your buses and strolling your streets they need to take proactive action to protect themselves.If the Isrealis would stop claiming Palestinian land and settling it with Israelis the conflict could be resolved. They are taking land from them that they have no historical or legitimate claim to. It would piss any of us off if the shoe was on the other foot. That being said the extremists (Isreali or Palestinian) do everything in their power to keep the cycle of hatred spinning. (propoganda, unprovoked attacks, etc)

Cut it out with the anti-semitic crap.......but I agree with some of what you are saying.

If China decided to come over here and say "move over Canada, we live here now" .........it just might anger people and provoke violent resistance.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

If China decided to come over here and say "move over Canada, we live here now" .........it just might anger people and provoke violent resistance.

A better analogy would be if Canada as a nation broke up and then a group of native americans from all over north and south America set up a tiny state surrounded by hostile nations. Those hostile nations then persecuted and evicted the native americans within their own territory while simultaneously invading the postage sized state.


.....one sided and overly simplistic views of history can be applied both ways.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I also call into question your assertation that Iran is not an aggressive nation. Iran is an aggressive nation in terms of asymetrical warfare. While their army doesn't march into other countries, they do conduct offensive opporations through the funding, arming and training of various extremely active terrorist groups. Examples of this are Hezbollah, Hamas, the Iraqi Insurgent movements.

Now the question that I have to logically ask is do you want Iran a nation that trains and arms terrorists that have a stated destruction of Israel as their goals to be able to gain access to nuclear materials.

People with commonalities tend to stick together, especially in regards to religion.
I don't deny that Iran provides support for Hamas/Hezbollah, but they see how the Palestinians are being treated and everyone expects Iran and the rest of the Middle East to turn their back on the Islamic people in Palestine? I have seen enough footage of their living conditions. When the Israelis aren't killing them with guns, it's disease and starvation.

Hamas and Hezbollah are no real threat to America, and have only stated that they will destroy Israel if they should strike pre-emptively.

America does not like the fact that Iran is self-sufficient. They have their own nationalized oil industry, control over their own central bank and currency, and they have that long coastline in the Perisan Gulf where most of the worlds oil must travel through. That is the only real threat to America from Iran.

[mikey_the_redneck]

This is in the article I posted....

"The quote used in the original AP article and copied in The Jerusalem Post article supposedly derives from the IRNA. If true, this can easily be checked. Care to find out? Go to:

www.irna.ir/en/news/view/menu-234/0612134902101231.htm

There you will discover the actual IRNA quote was:

"As the Soviet Union disappeared, the Zionist regime will also vanish and humanity will be liberated".

Compare this to the alleged IRNA quote reported by the Associated Press:

"The Zionist regime will be wiped out soon the same way the Soviet Union was, and humanity will achieve freedom".

In the IRNA's actual report, the Zionist regime will vanish just as the Soviet Union disappeared. Vanish. Disappear. In the dishonest AP version, the Zionist regime will be "wiped out". And how will it be wiped out? "The same way the Soviet Union was". Rather than imply a military threat or escalation in rhetoric, this reference to Russia actually validates the intended meaning of Ahmadinejad's previous misinterpreted anti-Zionist statements."

I don't want to get to caught up in these straw-man arguments. You can spin it both ways. I just think the American media has made Ahmadinejad look like more of an evil tyrant than he really is. He has no intentions of aggressive un-provoked military action against Israel .......period.

BTW Captain, I interpret the word "regime" as the leadership of a country, not the country itself.

[North East Goon]

Ahmadinejad is a threat to his own people, hopefully the people of Iran will wipe this stain off the face of the earth.

[mikey_the_redneck]

Originally Posted by North East Goon

Ahmadinejad is a threat to his own people, hopefully the people of Iran will wipe this stain off the face of the earth.

Yeah he is no saint, but is it up to America/Israel to interfere with these nations internal issues?
America-friendly Saudi Arabia uses the same extreme religious framework in their country...

I just don't believe Iran is out to nuke the world. Saddam WMD's all over again.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

People with commonalities tend to stick together, especially in regards to religion.
I don't deny that Iran provides support for Hamas/Hezbollah, but they see how the Palestinians are being treated and everyone expects Iran and the rest of the Middle East to turn their back on the Islamic people in Palestine? I have seen enough footage of their living conditions. When the Israelis aren't killing them with guns, it's disease and starvation.

Hezbollah really has nothing to do with Palestine, they live in Lebanon and attack into Israel, they use Palestine as a cheap excuse and nothing more. And you can't say that Iran is not an aggressive nation when they fund and arm and train and offer refuge to these groups.

and when you talk about the middle east treatment of the Palestinian people, they are as terrible to those people as Israel is. To the middle east nations the only use that Palestine issues is to them is political. They offer next to no help, they display next to none of the Islamic tenant of charity.

You also can't take the simplistic position that Israel is the exclusive cause of the problems in Palestine. The Hamas government has to take just as much of a lions share of the blame. When you have a death cult that encourages martyrdom from their people, doesn't care about their people because they're more powerful dead then alive then there's no middle ground that is ever going to be reached. The Abbas lead area has electricity, water and food, but the area run by Hammas doesn't at times? Why the difference.

Plus and maybe if Hammas didn't destroy things like food producing greenhouses to build bunkers things might work out a little better for them.

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Hamas and Hezbollah are no real threat to America, and have only stated that they will destroy Israel if they should strike pre-emptively.

Interesting considering that Hezbollah's charter states

We see in Israel the vanguard of the United States in our Islamic world. It is the hated enemy that must be fought until the hated ones get what they deserve.

Hamas Charter contains

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (The Martyr, Imam Hassan al-Banna, of blessed memory).
"The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Muslim generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. "
"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors."
"After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion", and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying."

What makes it sad is that the Hamas charter is built around a false document.

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

America does not like the fact that Iran is self-sufficient. They have their own nationalized oil industry, control over their own central bank and currency, and they have that long coastline in the Perisan Gulf where most of the worlds oil must travel through. That is the only real threat to America from Iran.

No America primarily doesn't like the fact that Iran is a state based exporter of terrorism and because of that terrorism represents a real and direct threat to a ally, That terrorist link also had a amount of responsibility for American deaths in Iraq, in American deaths in Afghanistan.

Don't forget that the Iranian backed Hezbollah was responsible for multiple bloody attacks against the United States including the Marine Barracks attack, the Embassy Bombings, the Khobar tower bombings.

Your right about the long coast line, but lets be really honest Mikey, the Iranian Navy and missile sites are only a threat for as long as they don't threaten foreign shipping.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Yeah he is no saint, but is it up to America/Israel to interfere with these nations internal issues?
America-friendly Saudi Arabia uses the same extreme religious framework in their country...

I just don't believe Iran is out to nuke the world. Saddam WMD's all over again.

What gives Iran the right to support and arm and train terrorist groups operating against Israel? And not overtly but openly. At this point if I'm Israel and the U.S., and I see a hostile nation that openly advocates the use of terrorists through their own revolutionary council and they're refining nuclear materials . . . yeah, I'm outright concerned.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

Wow, criticism = hate now Nage?
You must work for the Anti-Defamation League.....

Actually, criticism should be based on facts, which is something you seem not to care about. Instead you post things you know are false to try to make a point.

I have asked you several questions over several threads and you do not respond to any.

I have no issues with criticism, but if you are posting a bunch of bull to back up your posts, then there is nothing to respond to.