The Pitt Meadows incident. Update: Code of Silence hampering RCMP.

[Hi-Psi]

I was under the understanding that the pics of her show her on top, I'm sorry but it seems weird to me that it would be considered rape in that case...

And to those saying that no-one should be having sex with anyone when they are high on drugs needs to pull their head out of their arse. You must be pretty neive to think that that doesn't happen on a daily basis and at MANY parties.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Except I am pretty sure she went to the police before the wide spread release. Or maybe she consented while drunk but didn't know it was going to be filmed. Consenting to sex, then finding out things weren't as you thought and were in such a way that you would not have consented still means it was non-consensual.

I'd be careful with that, as it could be interpreted in a lot of different ways.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Hi-Psi

I was under the understanding that the pics of her show her on top, I'm sorry but it seems weird to me that it would be considered rape in that case...

And to those saying that no-one should be having sex with anyone when they are high on drugs needs to pull their head out of their arse. You must be pretty neive to think that that doesn't happen on a daily basis and at MANY parties.

Because it isn't rare, doesn't make it right.

Edit: I have no intention of seeing the pictures so I can't speak to the positions that they had sex in.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Triple Freak!

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by HeartsOfFire

Then I find it alarming that with this as personal experience, you can't fathom my scenario as being possible.

Anything is possible, but until it is shown to be likely I err on the side of the victim in situations like this. For every girl that's a psychotic like my ex, there are three or four legitimate victims who stay silent in fear of being viewed like psychotic ex.

It's a worrying trend.

Originally Posted by HeartsOfFire

Given the information that has been released to the public, and the two of us are drawing different suppositions, I'll give you that. However, the statement I have bolded above is absolutely wrong. If you consent to sex, engage in and subsequently complete the act, then try to turn around and claim rape, you are going to be in for a shock if that consent can be proven.

If the lie or omission of truth is big enough then it's a whole different story from lying about your age or profession (which is pretty sleazy). I agree it becomes a quagmire that is harder to prove, but if the lie is big enough it is still considered to be non-consenting.

Originally Posted by HeartsOfFire

And the longer the general public continues to allow this guilty-until-proven-innocent mindset to continue, the longer it will take for humanity to reach a stage of intellectual enlightenment. Thankfully, the law of the land does not cater to public opinion and rightly uses the innocent-until-proven-guilty foundation. In my opinion, your thought process is what needs to die in a fire.

I at no point said anyone was guilty. What I was advocating is not calling this girl a liar because she could be a sociopath. The victim doesn't
get to trot out the "innocent until proven guilty," defense. If she was raped she has to listen to people call her a whore and a liar all the same as if she wasn't raped and the legal system has no protection from that. And if it turns out she was raped, more girls will see what this young girl has gone through, and god forbid some of them get raped and then they remember all the comments, the insinuations she was lying and the character assassination she received because "people didn't believe her" and they will think it may just be easier to remain silent. It's a gross way to live.

They're innocent until proven guilty, but she's a whore until they're proven guilty. Doesn't seem exactly fair does it?

[HeartsOfFire]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

I at no point said anyone was guilty. What I was advocating is not calling this girl a liar because she could be a sociopath. The victim doesn't
get to trot out the "innocent until proven guilty," defense. If she was raped she has to listen to people call her a whore and a liar all the same as if she wasn't raped and the legal system has no protection from that. And if it turns out she was raped, more girls will see what this young girl has gone through, and god forbid some of them get raped and then they remember all the comments, the insinuations she was lying and the character assassination she received because "people didn't believe her" and they will think it may just be easier to remain silent. It's a gross way to live.

They're innocent until proven guilty, but she's a whore until they're proven guilty. Doesn't seem exactly fair does it?

I can only see misogynists and 4chan daring to call this girl a whore if she was genuinely raped. No person that dares to call them self sensible would be so heartless.

Nevertheless, that doesn't explain why people ARE calling her a whore in the wake of all of this. What am I to assume? Are they cruel people? Or is there more to this story than what we're being told?

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by HeartsOfFire

Nevertheless, that doesn't explain why people ARE calling her a whore in the wake of all of this. What am I to assume? Are they cruel people? Or is there more to this story than what we're being told?

Are they friend's of the accused? Are they people who have a slanted opinion of the girl because of what they saw? Are they people who did not like the girl for some reason outside of this party? Are they people who are skewed by how she's acted in the past?

People say a lot of things. Because some 16-year-old who attended a rave said she was asking for it, or doesn't believe it was rape does not mean she was asking for it or that it wasn't rape.

[HeartsOfFire]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

People say a lot of things. Because some 16-year-old who attended a rave said she was asking for it, or doesn't believe it was rape does not mean she was asking for it or that it wasn't rape.

Likewise, a 16-year-old attending a rave, who later through the course of the night engages in intercourse with multiple males and later claims it was rape does not obligatorily make it so.

This is not a cut-and-dry open-and-shut case, and it never was. Which is why I shook my head at everybody's reaction.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by HeartsOfFire

Likewise, a 16-year-old attending a rave, who later through the course of the night engages in intercourse with multiple males and later claims it was rape does not obligatorily make it so.

No it doesn't but to imply she is lying like you have merely tells other young girls "Don't bother, we won't believe you anyways." It is her body, if she feels like it has been violated in a way that she never consented too then she has every right to go to the police.

Originally Posted by HeartsOfFire

This is not a cut-and-dry open-and-shut case, and it never was. Which is why I shook my head at everybody's reaction.

Whether it is or isn't, she needs to be supported until it turns out she was flagrantly lying.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

No it doesn't but to imply she is lying like you have merely tells other young girls "Don't bother, we won't believe you anyways." It is her body, if she feels like it has been violated in a way that she never consented too then she has every right to go to the police.

Whether it is or isn't, she needs to be supported until it turns out she was flagrantly lying.

Yeah, but your attitude also leads to things like what happened with the Duke lacrosse team a few years ago. It can't be black and white on either side.

[HeartsOfFire]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

No it doesn't but to imply she is lying like you have merely tells other young girls "Don't bother, we won't believe you anyways." It is her body, if she feels like it has been violated in a way that she never consented too then she has every right to go to the police

Please quote me where I have written that beyond a shadow of a doubt I think she is lying.

Thinking this girl is lying ≠ doubting the story told to us through the mainstream media.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Yeah, but your attitude also leads to things like what happened with the Duke lacrosse team a few years ago. It can't be black and white on either side.

I am not saying anyone is guilty. I am saying that we can't doubt this girl and come down on her until we know she is lying. Just like we can't condemn the kids until we have more facts.

I am merely advocating that while there is innocent until proven guilty, we can't forget that the victim should have rights too.

Originally Posted by HeartsOfFire

Thinking this girl is lying ≠ doubting the story told to us through the mainstream media.

Except hasn't this girl and her family said she was raped at this point? So it's really doubting her and saying she is lying, no?

[Regorium]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

Except hasn't this girl and her family said she was raped at this point? So it's really doubting her and saying she is lying, no?

What the family says is irrelevant - no parent would ever tell the world their daughter did that consensually. Frankly, I would consider the opinions of random moronic high schoolers that attended the party more unbiased and more valid than her parents.

Also, check out the first 40 posts of the locked thread and tell me whether or not the kids have been condemned already.

We should focus on the girl's actions:
1) Apparently she was on top? No physical restraint.
2) Unsure of whether or not she was actually drugged (possible effect of being drugged?) - toxicology reports pending.
3) Received medical attention, yet did not report a rape.
4) Did not report to police at any point in time until they got a tip from a friend of a friend that there were pictures online and the police went to find her.

At this point in time, she would say anything to save face. Reporting a rape during that time between the party and when the police came knocking at her door would've strengthened her case a lot.

There is also the possibility that she was so embarrassed or whatever, so she didn't even report the rape. This is a very distinct possibility, and we will need to wait for more information to determine this.

For me, if the toxicology report says no date rape drug, it will be enough to convince me that this was consensual. On the other hand, if there was date rape drug, then I will be more likely to lean towards the opinion that a rape actually occurred.

[Mad Mel]

Originally Posted by Regorium

For me, if the toxicology report says no date rape drug, it will be enough to convince me that this was consensual. On the other hand, if there was date rape drug, then I will be more likely to lean towards the opinion that a rape actually occurred.

LMFAO. I like how no date rape drug can convince you that no rape occurred.

Meanwhile, if one was used (which in any reasonable person's mind would be much more compelling evidence as to whether she was raped or not) it makes you more likely to lean toward an opinion that a rape actually occurred.

No wonder women usually don't come forward after they've been raped. It's their fault until proven otherwise.

[Knalus]

When it comes to sex crimes, both of the two points of view have legitimate issues here. Personally, in my view, a solution to many of the issues dealing with these crimes/issues could actually be mitigated by a relatively simple change. Anonymous until proven guilty. Not just innocent, but anonymous. No one needs to know about these sorts of things before the facts are known, people just jump to conclusions. Besides, it makes things easier for the accuser as well, keeps them from being in a forced spotlight, and even if it doesn't reduce false accusations, it should minimize the negative assumptions that go along with it.

Anonymous till proven guilty. Makes sense to me.

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Mad Mel

No wonder women usually don't come forward after they've been raped. It's their fault until proven otherwise.

Ding! Ding! Ding!

Like I said, a the kids involved are innocent until proven guilty, but she is a whore until they're proven guilty. It is beyond unfair.

Also, just because she was on top does not prove anything. Nothing. All it proves is a guy got a girl on top of them.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by HeartsOfFire

Likewise, a 16-year-old attending a rave, who later through the course of the night engages in intercourse with multiple males and later claims it was rape does not obligatorily make it so.

This is not a cut-and-dry open-and-shut case, and it never was. Which is why I shook my head at everybody's reaction.

Legally it is, she was unable to consent due to her condition, assuming they had sex with her it is rape whether she resisted or even was willling.

Incidently my daughter who has talked to the girl says it was rape, and she is friends with the boys involved. well they are mostly 18 to 23 but I hesitate to describe effluent like this as men.

[Vena]

Judging by some of these posts and the comments of the the teenagers in video, it's no surprise that she did not come forward.

The whole tone of this thread is disturbing. It is up to a 16 year old girl, who was probably drugged, to prove that she was not gang-raped?

[Blaster86]

Originally Posted by Vena

It is up to a 16 year old girl, who was probably drugged, to prove that she was not gang-raped?

And she's a whore until she proves it. And if she can't prove it she's a whore. Why bother coming forward? She's just a whore if does or doesn't.

Gross. ing gross.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by Vena

The whole tone of this thread is disturbing. It is up to a 16 year old girl, who was probably drugged, to prove that she was not gang-raped?

I'm surprised too. Honestly, I think there are some things where truth should be automatically assumed, as the support is greatly needed for those whose are being truthful. Yes, that creates cases like "acid girl", but I'm fine with getting duped once in a while to ensure that people (men and women) come forward with their events.