Anti McD's Ad

[Acey]

As of late, for whatever reason, I hear people rationalizing McDonalds burgers by saying that salads contain more calories. This baffled me initially, until I started paying more attention: the problem I notice when I go out to eat with friends is that people put a metric TON of dressing on their salad. Pure calories.

If I don't have time to make one I'll pick up a freshly packed Caesar salad from Safeway or Sobeys, toss the dressing packet in the garbage, and be done. I'm far from the perfect eater, just wanted to address the salad vs Big Mac thing cause I think it's BS.

I don't care to look it up but if I remember correctly from Supersize Me I think at the start of the movie they said there's more McD's than all the other fast food restaurants combined? That's probably why they get picked on the most.

[Temporary_User]

Aren't there sauces in a big mac as well?

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by MJK

The Inuit survived on a majority meat diet for thousands of years. There are no farms, no fresh veggies, no fruit trees. They ate meat, cooked and raw, and survived.

This idea that the vegetarian diet is the healthiest is purely nonsense. You can have a perfectly healthy balanced diet that includes meat, so long as it is in moderation. Vegans/vegatarians are the only ones obnoxious enough to run about proclaiming their diet superiority.

[Crazy Bacon Legs]

The fattest person I ever knew was a vegetarian.

Vegetarian does not in any way equate to healthy. There are plenty of fatty, fried vegetarian foods out there. I guarantee my high-chicken diet is healthier than many vegetarians'.

Oh, and why on earth do so many vegetarians feel it's their god-given duty to tell me what to eat?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Crazy Bacon Legs

The fattest person I ever knew was a vegetarian.

Vegetarian does not in any way equate to healthy. There are plenty of fatty, fried vegetarian foods out there. I guarantee my high-chicken diet is healthier than many vegetarians'.

Oh, and why on earth do so many vegetarians feel it's their god-given duty to tell me what to eat?

Oh, they're probably atheists too and it's all part of maintaining membership in the brotherhood.

[trew]

Originally Posted by Thor

But look at the truth, you can order a salad at earls thats worse than eating a Big Mac combo.

You can eat most entree's at restaurants that's over 1500-2000 calories in one plate, in fact there was a meal at I think Moxies that held over 3000 calories.

Yet most people sitting there eating their food have no clue and probably sit around talking about how bad Mcdonalds is.

Man I can't agree more with this post. This is a food industry problem, and not just fast food problem. Your average meal at any restaurant is pretty bad, and the sit down restaurants are often bigger culprits than fast food, even when picking seemingly reasonable choices.

For example:

Grilled Chicken Clubhouse + Field Greens at Earls (970 Calories) > Quarter Pounder With Cheese + Medium Fries at McDonalds (890 Calories)

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Ark2

Vegans/vegatarians are the only ones obnoxious enough to run about proclaiming their diet superiority.

You've not read any of Azure's post have you?

1) As a vegetarian, I've avoided McDs because I didn't think there was anything vegetarian there to eat.... don't all their salads have chicken or some such?

2) After McDonald's spent millions on the McLibel case and took such a heavy hit in the media around it, I doubt they will try again this time.

3) As for the rest of this thread, we had this thread just last week where the meat-eaters bashed the vegetarians and vice-versa. I tried the Jon Stewart "tone down the rhetoric" stance, but it appears that means the thread dies, a new one starts up and the bashing continues.

So rather than retype everything, I'll just link to my old post:
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...9&postcount=85

I hate when these things threads get so overly charged that a reasoned discussion seems impossible.

-=-=-=-
Some here are asking why vegetarians try to convert people. I typically don't bring it up, but I understand why others do. Why do those against abortion try to stop it and not just shut up about it? Because for many it is their personal belief that life starts at conception and that abortion is murder. I disagree with that, but if you are of that mindset, I can understand why you would stand up against it. Their end goal is to reduce perceived suffering, a goal with which I can relate. I just disagree on the ability to suffer. I have no problem with eating shellfish (other than I don't like them) given their lack of ability to feel pain, the very rawest form of suffering. I'm willing to bet that the group behind this ad, though proclaiming people should be vegetarian for health reasons, are mainly vegetarians due to ethical and moral concerns. The vast majority of doctors would be more inclined to say "reduce carbs, fats and meats, increase fruits and veggies" unless they had some other motivation.

Although I understand the preachers and believe their heart is in the right place, I've settled more into a "live and let live" stance. I'm going to do what I can personally to address suffering - be it helping at the food bank, gathering donations for the women's shelter, giving donations to Amnesty and Plan Canada - but I came to the conclusion that fighting with others to reduce suffering only made them more entrenched in their positions, made me depressed and burned out, and really only served to inflame the situation to a point where civil discussion seems like an impossibility, which is where this thread seems headed.

Even now, I have had situations like this. A friend invites me to a sports restaurant to watch a football game with his college buddies and I'll order veggie stir fry off the menu.
"You got no meat there. You a vegetarian?"
"Actually, yes. I am. Have been for 20 years."
"Why?"
I give the reasons stated in the linked post
"Who the F are you to tell me what I should be eating?"
If you think vegetarians are the only ones that are extremist and preachy think again. Many meat-eaters will viciously defend their position and LOOK for opportunities to preach their position.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

You've not read any of Azure's post have you?

1) As a vegetarian, I've avoided McDs because I didn't think there was anything vegetarian there to eat.... don't all their salads have chicken or some such?

2) After McDonald's spent millions on the McLibel case and took such a heavy hit in the media around it, I doubt they will try again this time.

3) As for the rest of this thread, we had this thread just last week where the meat-eaters bashed the vegetarians and vice-versa. I tried the Jon Stewart "tone down the rhetoric" stance, but it appears that means the thread dies, a new one starts up and the bashing continues.

So rather than retype everything, I'll just link to my old post:
http://forum.calgarypuck.com/showpos...9&postcount=85

I hate when these things threads get so overly charged that a reasoned discussion seems impossible.

-=-=-=-
Some here are asking why vegetarians try to convert people. I typically don't bring it up, but I understand why others do. Why do those against abortion try to stop it and not just shut up about it? Because for many it is their personal belief that life starts at conception and that abortion is murder. I disagree with that, but if you are of that mindset, I can understand why you would stand up against it. Their end goal is to reduce perceived suffering, a goal with which I can relate. I just disagree on the ability to suffer. I have no problem with eating shellfish (other than I don't like them) given their lack of ability to feel pain, the very rawest form of suffering. I'm willing to bet that the group behind this ad, though proclaiming people should be vegetarian for health reasons, are mainly vegetarians due to ethical and moral concerns. The vast majority of doctors would be more inclined to say "reduce carbs, fats and meats, increase fruits and veggies" unless they had some other motivation.

Although I understand the preachers and believe their heart is in the right place, I've settled more into a "live and let live" stance. I'm going to do what I can personally to address suffering - be it helping at the food bank, gathering donations for the women's shelter, giving donations to Amnesty and Plan Canada - but I came to the conclusion that fighting with others to reduce suffering only made them more entrenched in their positions, made me depressed and burned out, and really only served to inflame the situation to a point where civil discussion seems like an impossibility, which is where this thread seems headed.

Even now, I have had situations like this. A friend invites me to a sports restaurant to watch a football game with his college buddies and I'll order veggie stir fry off the menu.
"You got no meat there. You a vegetarian?"
"Actually, yes. I am. Have been for 20 years."
"Why?"
I give the reasons stated in the linked post
"Who the F are you to tell me what I should be eating?"
If you think vegetarians are the only ones that are extremist and preachy think again. Many meat-eaters will viciously defend their position and LOOK for opportunities to preach their position.

Can I just point out the irony that while you discount eating meat on the basis of feeling pain yet you are okay with abortion where the latest science puts the ability of the fetus to feel pain at between 8 weeks and 14 weeks.

On tge topic at handiIf these adds were really about health they would be targeting High Fructose Corn Syrup and the soft drink industry. They are the worst contributor to excess calories and blood sugar spikes. Studies show that Pop is purely extra calories. When you eat Mcdonalds or other fatty foods some of the calories you eat there would have been eaten anyways. With pop you eat more food then you would have before

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Crazy Bacon Legs

The fattest person I ever knew was a vegetarian.

Vegetarian does not in any way equate to healthy. There are plenty of fatty, fried vegetarian foods out there. I guarantee my high-chicken diet is healthier than many vegetarians'.

Oh, and why on earth do so many vegetarians feel it's their god-given duty to tell me what to eat?

and the sickest person Ive ever met was a meat eater...cmon your post is a load of crap and you know it. Just because your friend said he was a vegetarian, he obviously ate a ton of crap. I know quite a few Veggies and not one of them is heavy. I can also say I know a ton of meat eaters of which most of them always beeyatch about being overweight or needing to go on a diet of some type.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by GGG

Can I just point out the irony that while you discount eating meat on the basis of feeling pain yet you are okay with abortion where the latest science puts the ability of the fetus to feel pain at between 8 weeks and 14 weeks.

Heh. In these "discussions" people like to try to point out hypocrisy so they can feel superior. Even when they don't know me or my beliefs. I said I disagree that abortion is murder. I am most certainly against abortion after 14 weeks. Personally, I would hope that if I got a woman pregnant, even if by accident (broken condom, etc) that she wouldn't even take the day after pill. However, like I said in my previous post, I'm to the point where I don't like pushing my own personal beliefs onto other people.

Now, the other issue on abortion is how you combat it. Most anti-abortion activists want the procedure banned, which just moves it black market back rooms. I think a more appropriate means of reducing the number of abortions is sexual education in school, something most of the people with the protest signs outside the clinics are against are against.

To complete the parallel, I put the people with the anti-abortion protests in with the over-the-top PETA protests. They only serve to entrench the opposing view and turn off the moderates.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Ark2

This idea that the vegetarian diet is the healthiest is purely nonsense. You can have a perfectly healthy balanced diet that includes meat, so long as it is in moderation. Vegans/vegatarians are the only ones obnoxious enough to run about proclaiming their diet superiority.

The problem with your suggestion is "most" meat eaters, or those who think that a balanced diet is equal, do not eat meat or other bad foods in moderation. Ive been to many BBQs or Dinners and eagerly watched my carnivore friends as they seared their fave pieces of meat over the coals. They suggest that to eat meat moderately your serving of meat should be no more than the size of one of your palms. Ive seen TBones, Burgers, Pork tenderloin pieces that would make a horse gag, yet these people consume them and go back for seconds, not to mention the fully loaded potatoes, salads covered in thousand island dressing etc. Hang out at a McDs or Wendys for awhile....watch what people eat, ther is no moderation in a giant burger, large fries and a large sugar filled pop.

Yet if I over eat veggies does it do me any harm?

This world would be far less diet crazed if everyone ate in "moderation" as you suggest....or better, vegetarian.

Oh one more thing...just because "I think" the world would be better off as a Veggie..doesnt mean Im advocating it or pushing it on my meat eater friends. I could care less what you eat, yet whenever I go out somewhere the carnivores are always trying to get me to eat meat of some kind.
Overall I feel FAR healthier and have far more energy than at anytime I was a meat eater.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by MJK

The Inuit survived on a majority meat diet for thousands of years. There are no farms, no fresh veggies, no fruit trees. They ate meat, cooked and raw, and survived.

Life expectancy among the Inuit is also very low compared to the rest of Canada. Now before you jump on me and suggest it is more than a diet based answer, I would tell you I concur. Poor housing, high risk lifestyles, etc also contribute, but I dont think you can discount the diet aspect either, an all protein diet must be a contributor.

In 1991, life expectancy in the Inuit-inhabited areas was about 68 years, 10 years less than for Canada as a whole. From 1991 to 2001, life expectancy in the Inuit-inhabited areas did not increase, although life expectancy rose by about two years for Canada overall.
Among the four areas, life expectancy was generally highest in the Inuvialuit region and Nunavut, followed by Nunatsiavut and Nunavik.
The findings for the Inuit-inhabited areas do not distinguish life expectancy for Inuit from that of non-Inuit people. However, if the life expectancy of the non-Inuit population (who make up about 20% of the population in the four areas combined) is assumed to be the same as in the rest of Canada, then, taking into account the relative population sizes of each group, the life expectancy of Inuit residents would have been 64.2 years, or 15 years less than for Canada as a whole.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by fotze

I have no doubts that vegetarians are healthier than meat eaters on average. I guess when you are closer to deaths door like cheese you do everything in your power to get an extra couple days on earth. I'm just curious when your wife made you become vegetarian?

Are you on the daily aspirin yet, what about oatmeal? Fibre drinks?

ROFLMAO...your not that far behind me fotz ole boy! I can hear your bones creak from here!!
No aspirin or fibre drinks for this fella...I be fine without. One of the added benefits of being a veggie is your bad cholestorol levels drop, your good ones go up and you get all the fiber you need in your meals.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by fotze

Do you get incredulous at party's like my wife when the host hasn't made a vegetarian option for dinner.

Im past that...I usually eat something before I go out if the host is someone new or unaware of my choice.
All of my good friends are aware and go out of their way to make me, and the rest of the guests, something veggie. Invariably it always ends up a pasta dish LOL.
It is amazing though at how little veggies are served at dinners, and those that are are usually soggy, overcooked or covered in a slew of cream sauce.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by Cheese

It is amazing though at how little veggies are served at dinners, and those that are are usually soggy, overcooked or covered in a slew of cream sauce.

You need more asian friends.

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by MJK

The Inuit survived on a majority meat diet for thousands of years. There are no farms, no fresh veggies, no fruit trees. They ate meat, cooked and raw, and survived.

Their bodies require a different diet. Different races respond better to different diets.

[MJK]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Life expectancy among the Inuit is also very low compared to the rest of Canada. Now before you jump on me and suggest it is more than a diet based answer, I would tell you I concur. Poor housing, high risk lifestyles, etc also contribute, but I dont think you can discount the diet aspect either, an all protein diet must be a contributor.

In 1991, life expectancy in the Inuit-inhabited areas was about 68 years, 10 years less than for Canada as a whole. From 1991 to 2001, life expectancy in the Inuit-inhabited areas did not increase, although life expectancy rose by about two years for Canada overall.
Among the four areas, life expectancy was generally highest in the Inuvialuit region and Nunavut, followed by Nunatsiavut and Nunavik.
The findings for the Inuit-inhabited areas do not distinguish life expectancy for Inuit from that of non-Inuit people. However, if the life expectancy of the non-Inuit population (who make up about 20% of the population in the four areas combined) is assumed to be the same as in the rest of Canada, then, taking into account the relative population sizes of each group, the life expectancy of Inuit residents would have been 64.2 years, or 15 years less than for Canada as a whole.

Cheese I am not talking about the modern Inuk. I am talking about those that lived 100+ years ago. Studies from 1990 onwards mean nothing because Inuit eat all kinds of crap now. It's ridiculous! Pop, chips and chocolate bars are eaten every day and most all have rotten teeth and diabetes.

I am talking about those who lived in Igloos and managed to survive in the north for thousands of years, in some of the most brutal conditions on the planet. All they ate was seal, walrus, whale, fish, caribou...There really were no veggies or fruits. Hell, most of the explorers who were trying to find the northwest passage died of scurvy.

I just wanted to clarify that I was not talking about the Inuit of today. They have the worst diets I have ever seen (now).

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by fotze

You hiring?

CP potluck?

[MJK]

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

Their bodies require a different diet. Different races respond better to different diets.

The point was that there was no veggies or fruit available to them yet they managed to survive for a very long time. There was no choice. There was no requirement because it was all they had!

[Rhettzky]

I am now officially sponsoring Cheese in my quest to nullify the vegetarian moral crusade...



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