Calgary Civic Election Poll #3: The race heats up

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by 4X4

Lol. You're bent out of shape over something that did not affect you, cost you no money, and did not affect or cost money to anyone else. You're just choked that it didn't have a greater meaning before taking place. You deem it unworthy, and therefore, you are angry that it took place. Like some old curmudgeon that is mad that the kids played street hockey, and even though they moved the nets when the cars went by, the mere fact that such a useless activity took place makes him mad.

Way to go, Jiri, Dion, and all the rest of you whiners. Keep hating something that didn't affect you in the slightest. At least the Peace Bridge cost $25m.

Thanks for telling me how I think.

You have completely missed the point of my argument against the festival - and instead of trying to engage in a discussion you have simply dismissed it as whining. Bravo.

Fine rather than try to say again why I oppose this here is a column that sums up rather nicely a lot of the objections to it:

http://www.calgarysun.com/news/colum.../13788471.html

And no I'm not a Rick Bell fan at all - but on this issue I do agree with him.

It's not about this festival in and of itself - it's about deeper issues and this is just another example of what has been wrong with how our city has been run.

[nik-]

aaaaaand the circle is complete.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by nik-

aaaaaand the circle is complete.

Not quite yet, I'm still waiting for someone to blame Nenshi for the Memorial closure.

[Cscutch]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Thanks for telling me how I think.


You have completely missed the point of my argument against the festival - and instead of trying to engage in a discussion you have simply dismissed it as whining. Bravo.

Fine rather than try to say again why I oppose this here is a column that sums up rather nicely a lot of the objections to it:

http://www.calgarysun.com/news/colum.../13788471.html

And no I'm not a Rick Bell fan at all - but on this issue I do agree with him.

It's not about this festival in and of itself - it's about deeper issues and this is just another example of what has been wrong with how our city has been run.

The problem is that there is always projects or money spent on things that some won't use or support. Such as spending 4 million on pedestrian bridge that crosses a suburban road that I have never seen a single person use (http://bit.ly/dj8S40).

Living just outside of downtown I support projects like the Peace Bridge and don’t mind road closures as they get cars off the road, anything that promotes cycling and alternative forms of transportation. But I also understand that it is not for everyone and don’t complain when we spend a 150 million on an overpass out in the suburbs, only wish they build the communities better out there.

Chris

[4X4]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Thanks for telling me how I think.

You have completely missed the point of my argument against the festival - and instead of trying to engage in a discussion you have simply dismissed it as whining. Bravo.

Fine rather than try to say again why I oppose this here is a column that sums up rather nicely a lot of the objections to it:

http://www.calgarysun.com/news/colum.../13788471.html

And no I'm not a Rick Bell fan at all - but on this issue I do agree with him.

It's not about this festival in and of itself - it's about deeper issues and this is just another example of what has been wrong with how our city has been run.

It IS whining. It doesn't affect you at all. So what's your problem? Because there wasnt enough "stuff" planned? Who is the judge of that? The whole point of it was to encourage walking, biking, and rollerskating. That's it. They closed the road for that. They're hoping it turns into some kind of health nut festival. I've explained that. You're the one that refuses to see this. You're the one that's crying about something that takes place miles away from where you live, on a road that has very low volume on the day(s) it is planned.

[JiriHrdina]

Did you bother to read the link or any of what I've said.

It's not about what happened on that specific day - it's an example of how this city is being run poorly IMHO and in that sense it certainly doesn't impact me.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by 4X4

It IS whining. It doesn't affect you at all. So what's your problem? Because there wasnt enough "stuff" planned? Who is the judge of that? The whole point of it was to encourage walking, biking, and rollerskating. That's it. They closed the road for that. They're hoping it turns into some kind of health nut festival. I've explained that. You're the one that refuses to see this. You're the one that's crying about something that takes place miles away from where you live, on a road that has very low volume on the day(s) it is planned.

I just still can't get over the fact that someone actually has an extreme problem with this. It's just a road closure (and only a partial one at that), that didn't in any way put major dents in the traffic flow. Anywhere. In fact, it ENCOURAGED people to use alternate modes of transportation while allowing traffic to STILL FLOW.

This is the same city that shuts down almost half of downtown roads, and subsequently alters bus routes, on a regular Friday morning (a regular BUSINESS weekday morning), every Stampede for a parade. This is a significantly more impactful event than some Bow River Flow festival is. Howcome that isn't be criticized?

Yikes.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Yes Memorial is considered a major road in Calgary. I don't know how many cars pass through it on an average Sunday - nor do I care - what I care about is that it was shut down for what I consider to be a willy nilly reason.

So are you also against the half-dozen or so other event closures to Memorial that occur throughout the summer, or just this one?

[MotoRacer]

Barb Higgins .... only one not already tarnished political garbage.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

It's not about closing down the road or not - it's about having an actual reason to do it.

There was a reason, to show that a road can be a street. It wasn't to influence people to stop using cars but to help illuminate the fact that our streets don't have to be just for cars. If you are viewing it as an act of war against the private automobile you are being overly sensitive, especially when you consider the extent, timing, and length of the closure. If Druh had as much malice as some of you are claiming she has she could have done something that would have been a much large inconvenience to drivers. However, she understands how cities work...

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Muta

I just still can't get over the fact that someone actually has an extreme problem with this. It's just a road closure (and only a partial one at that), that didn't in any way put major dents in the traffic flow. Anywhere. In fact, it ENCOURAGED people to use alternate modes of transportation while allowing traffic to STILL FLOW.

This is the same city that shuts down almost half of downtown roads, and subsequently alters bus routes, on a regular Friday morning (a regular BUSINESS weekday morning), every Stampede for a parade. This is a significantly more impactful event than some Bow River Flow festival is. Howcome that isn't be criticized?

Yikes.

Not to mention the numerous marathons run downtown and along Memorial that no one seems to have a problem with . . .

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by octothorp

So are you also against the half-dozen or so other event closures to Memorial that occur throughout the summer, or just this one?

I'd have to familiarize myself with those other events before I could offer an opinion. For the most part I am supportive of festivals and other events and don't have a problem with road closures to facilitate them.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Did you bother to read the link or any of what I've said.

It's not about what happened on that specific day - it's an example of how this city is being run poorly IMHO and in that sense it certainly doesn't impact me.

Yeah, I read the link (contrary to my policy of not clicking RB links). And it was classic RB with his Reggie Dunlop-esque wordsmithing. A whole lot of commotion over a non issue to get the poor saps that have nothing better to do to whine about something that does not affect them.

You wanna talk about things that are "bass akwards"? How about the way property taxes are levied in this city? The people that live inner city pay twice as much tax as the people that live in the burbs (and cost the city twice as much in infrastructure). There's something to hang your hat on. Why don't you bitch about that instead? Is it because you live out there in the burbs?

I just find it hilarious how it's the people on the edges of the city that are whining about the inner city stuff, like a granola fest and a stupid bridge, when it's the outer reaches of the city that get most of the money, but pay the least. TBQH, I'm only fighting this battle because I find it so hypocritical that you're going on about how "city hall is doing things backwards", and your example is something that's FREE (or ten grand, if RB is to be believed), and DOESN'T AFFECT YOU AT ALL!

[JiriHrdina]

Why are you assuming that I live in the burbs?

In fact - I do not. I have for all my adult life lived downtown, or near the core.

And for what's it worth I agree 100% with what you are saying about property taxes.

Don't assume that based on one issue you can know something like where someone lives or how they feel about other issues.

[getbak]

I live in Renfrew, which I hope is close enough to the "inner city" for me to have an opinion about the Bow River Flow.


I don't feel like re-writing what I posted in the other election thread in August, so I'll just quote them...

Originally Posted by getbak

Remember that when this was first announced there was no "Bow River Flow" in the plan. There was no plan beyond "let's close two lanes of Memorial every Sunday in August."

It wasn't until people started asking why they were going to close the road that someone actually came up with a plan for an event surrounding the closure, and it was also reduced to one Sunday afternoon rather than every Sunday afternoon.

Originally Posted by getbak

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciclov%C3%ADa

The idea was started in Bogota, Colombia to help motivate people to go outside in a city that contained a lot of roadways and little park space. It's grown to a point where over 120km of roads are closed every Sunday in Bogota.

The problem with how it was decided to run it in Calgary was that they chose to hold it right beside one of the best cycle paths in the city, and it's so short, that there's really no reason for anyone who's using the pathways to leave the paths only to go back onto it a few blocks later.

If you look at a map of downtown Calgary, they chose to hold this at probably the worst location they could have. There is so much park space and extensive pathways in the immediate vicinity, that it's completely ridiculous to close a couple of blocks of Memorial for this event, which could easily be held on Prince's Island and the surrounding pathways.

It seems like someone saw a news story about the growing popularity of these Ciclovia events and thought, "we should do that in Calgary", without ever giving any thought as to why they're held in these other cities, if Calgary needs such a thing at all, and if we do, where the best place to hold it would be.

If it was decided that something like this would make sense in Calgary, they should have closed one or more of the north-south roads into downtown to make it easier for people to get to the very good pathways that already exist around Prince's Island, Eau Claire, and Kensington. A good road to choose would have been First St SW, close it from the area around the Talisman Centre and the Elbow River Pathway up to Riverfront Avenue, where it connects to the Bow River Pathway. They could have a Tai Chi demonstration in the park there by Chinatown, with other activities scattered around Prince's Island and Eau Claire. Calgary has the most extensive pathway systems in North America, with over 500km of paths and trails within the city limits. We don't need to close streets in order to create more paths, especially immediately beside better dedicated paths.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Why are you assuming that I live in the burbs?

In fact - I do not. I have for all my adult life lived downtown, or near the core.

And for what's it worth I agree 100% with what you are saying about property taxes.

Don't assume that based on one issue you can know something like where someone lives or how they feel about other issues.

Ok. Point taken.

As far as BRF goes, did it affect you in any way? Were you late for something? Did it close off a road that you needed? Was it noisy? Did it cost you anything?
You keep telling me that your point of contention was that it was a backwards idea. Close the road for the hell of it, and hope a party pops up. I say that that was the point of the closure. As stupid as that may be, it didn't adversely affect anyone, and a bunch of people enjoyed it (if only the organizers). So again I ask what's the big deal?

I think I ended up getting so riled because Dion wants Farrell fired over this, and I find it unbelievably ######ed that someone from High fricken River wants a Calgary alderman fired over something that had no negative consequences.

The two of you are just making no sense to me.

[JiriHrdina]

I was working that day so I didn't impact me directly - but as I've said repeatedly that's not my point.

[Mazrim]

I still don't get why it wasn't in Kensington, where businesses would benefit the most from it.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I'd have to familiarize myself with those other events before I could offer an opinion. For the most part I am supportive of festivals and other events and don't have a problem with road closures to facilitate them.

Let me preface this with saying that I am aware of what your sticking point is seeing as how we've already discussed the issue in another thread.

What you seem to be saying with the quoted post and several others is that there should be some sort of how-to checklist on how to create, develop, and grow a festival that includes a road closure. So, say I want to start a festival (as but one example of possible reasons to close a road). Let's say it will celebrate dog walking, or the colour orange, or mustaches or promote electronics recycling or a meeting of unicycle enthusiasts, or a white pride parade. What about just a plain old block party or garage sale parade amongst my neighbours and community? How should I go about it? What about a rally in support of, say, Anne Coulter or Michael Ignatieff? What about if the road closure just so happens to be linked to the cause of the event, even if it isn't "needed" for the purposes of having event participants walking, standing or cycling on it? What about spontaneous events like Red Mile c. 2004? What's the protocol? Should there be one?

The thing is that the City of Calgary's transportation department doesn't care what the cause of the road closure application is, or if they do, it has little bearing on if the closure is granted or not. There is good reason for that, and the Bow River Flow is a good example of why. All they determine is if it is doable and the traffic flows won't be impacted significantly. Say we create *something* that incorporates your interpretation of "good reason" for a closure into the process by which they are closed. How can you possibly do that without creating more loopholes and problems with how it is implemented?

I'm not really a dog person, mustaches creep me out just a bit, I don't unicycle or care to and I think many 'white pride' advocates are at best misguided. But, if a group wants to close a road for their event that the transportation department deems fit to close for the duration of it, then that's fine by me. Granting a road closure, that is technically feasible and doesn't impact traffic flows significantly, based on those merits is a hell of a lot more equitable and efficient than trying to come up with some sort of how-to on event planning for citizens, and deciding what is and what is not a legitimate reason for closing a road that otherwise has minimal effects.

Not saying you share these sentiments Jiri, but there's an element to this issue that those opposed don't care so much about traffic flows as they do about just not really liking the segment of the population that the event appeals to. It's a shot against so-called latte-sipping elitists. If all they cared about was being hypothetically inconvenienced by traffic flows, this is a non-issue, because frankly they weren't significantly affected.

Now, in an old thread you had mentioned that I seem to be arguing that people should not have reason to complain because that's just how things work (re: transportation department granting road closures). Sorry I did not reply at the time as I got busy and went out of town at the time. However, if I can so so now, that's not what I'm trying to say. People complain all the time, often without much cause. Myself included. Complain all you want, but I reserve the right to challenge you to come up with a better solution, challenge the reasoning behind your complaints, or just agree to disagree.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

BS. No Druh Farrell, no Bow River Flow. You go to great pains to make it seem like there was an overwelming uprising of grassroots support, but in this article she takes credit for the idea, which BTW wasn't to create a festival but rather to close the road for the sake of closing the road. Only when the closures all Sundays in August moved to one Sunday in August did it become a festival.

http://www.calgarysun.com/news/colum...99966-sun.html

Hmm, thanks for the link. I was certainly under a bit of a different impression. Either way, the basis of support and much of the organizing for the event was a group of people in Hillhurst-Sunnyside and likely surrounding communities. Also, I'm not sure if taking a few minutes to type some posts is "great pains," but anyway.

To be honest though, I think it was only a matter of time before *someone* came up with the idea, seeing as how other cities have done it. Memorial may not have been the location, but I would guess it would be another street in the inner city.

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Democracy at work, most likely for the same reasons that Dion hates her, residents of Ward 7 like her. Hence why I see her winning again.

Yup, well said. Getting elected in an inner-city ward and receiving a glowing approval by the Calgary Sun's editorial board are two different things. Perhaps not so far as diametrically opposite. but certainly far apart.