Trading Kings!!!

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by simmer2

I don't know if I have issues with my MSN, but I'm online pretty much 8am - 6pm Mon - Fri except for the last month...and I've seen you on there maybe 3 times. Have you been on there more?

As for the Habs, 6 trades sounds a little low....I think I probably made 10 trades prior to the draft alone. If we're just talking after the draft then that sounds right.

I'm always fairly active, although the last month has been busy so I haven't been able to do as much unfortunately.

Well I cant say I was accurate to 0% out of 101, but likely within 1% for sure.
Ive been online every day in the last two months except for a 10 day period in Mid July when I was on vacation.
I also live out east so I am 2 hours ahead of you and likely online at different times. Cant say Ive seen you online either, must be later at night.
6 deals is decent, Im not suggesting you have to have 20...at least you are active and have a decent team. You try to get better all the time.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Cheese

Well I agree to disagree Grant. In most cases I just reach out to see if a GM is interested in dealing or thinking about dealing without making any offers at all. Most go unanswered.
Patience is a great thing as long as your team is successful and generally reaching the playoffs and winning consistently...much like your team. You take a great interest in your team, and it shows.
Success of your team isnt always the best thing as well...sometimes success as a league is just as important. Stagnation due to lack of trades and discussion is a part of that.
At least go online a few times a week and discuss....you can do it with your job so I'm sure most others can as well. What is with the aversion to MSN?

I don't think there is an aversion to MSN but it doesn't fit some people's lifestyles - if they can't get on MSN at work are they going to sit in front of their computers for hours at night with MSN on? Probably not.

Clearly some GMs are not finding it hard to find trades. I've made a lot and probably could have 10 more where the value was appropriate but I turned it down for whatever reason.

I think the bigger challenge is that some GMs want to win every deal they make and if they can't - they don't make a trade.

That gets in the way more than a lack of MSN time IMHO.

I think the game has become more challenging. It's not just about trading now - it's about a combination of decisions, and tactics - of which trading is just one.

As a league we are comfortable with how our GMs are doing.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I don't think there is an aversion to MSN but it doesn't fit some people's lifestyles - if they can't get on MSN at work are they going to sit in front of their computers for hours at night with MSN on? Probably not.

Clearly some GMs are not finding it hard to find trades. I've made a lot and probably could have 10 more where the value was appropriate but I turned it down for whatever reason.

I think the bigger challenge is that some GMs want to win every deal they make and if they can't - they don't make a trade.

That gets in the way more than a lack of MSN time IMHO.

I think the game has become more challenging. It's not just about trading now - it's about a combination of decisions, and tactics - of which trading is just one.

As a league we are comfortable with how our GMs are doing.

...and that is exactly why I looked at the last 2 months vs the last few weeks.
I also don't look to win every deal if that was pointed at me, and I can certainly direct you to the deal(s) we made, where I think you came out the clear winner.
I still call BS that "most" and I mean "most" GMs cannot find a few hours a week at home to play the game. If that's the case they should let someone who cares about the league join. Just my 2 cents though.
Tactics and decisions are much more fun when you are "talking" to a GM much as real GM might do.
Out of the 30 GMs in this league I dont think Ive seen more than 10 online, so you are suggesting that a full 2/3 of the leagues GMs cannot find time at home or at work.

[Enforcer]

We practice quality over quantity in the Dallas organization.

For the record, I made 8 in the offseason overall.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Swayze11

Tied for 7th is about right for me. I am still working on my team but I am also very happy with a lot of my players. As soon as my team starts to play like crap then you will see a lot more coming from the Avs.

By the way... how did you find this information?

All stats are under CPHL Home>History tabs
They arent completely up to date yet but close.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Cheese

...and that is exactly why I looked at the last 2 months vs the last few weeks.
I also don't look to win every deal if that was pointed at me, and I can certainly direct you to the deal(s) we made, where I think you came out the clear winner.
I still call BS that "most" and I mean "most" GMs cannot find a few hours a week at home to play the game. If that's the case they should let someone who cares about the league join. Just my 2 cents though.
Tactics and decisions are much more fun when you are "talking" to a GM much as real GM might do.
Out of the 30 GMs in this league I dont think Ive seen more than 10 online, so you are suggesting that a full 2/3 of the leagues GMs cannot find time at home or at work.

I wasn't pointing at anyone specifically with my comments about winning deal - just a general observation.

I think people can find time to be on MSN - you are basing your assessment on the hours you are on - but at other times - others are there.

Again to re-iterate we are fine with how things are. You had similar problems last time you came back into the league - but unless you want to be in a sim league with a bunch of teenagers who are just on MSN all day - nothing dramatic is going to change. I'd rather have a league full of mature GMs who have the right attitude about the game that a bunch of inexperienced noobs who have to be watched like a hawk.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I wasn't pointing at anyone specifically with my comments about winning deal - just a general observation.

I think people can find time to be on MSN - you are basing your assessment on the hours you are on - but at other times - others are there.

Again to re-iterate we are fine with how things are. You had similar problems last time you came back into the league - but unless you want to be in a sim league with a bunch of teenagers who are just on MSN all day - nothing dramatic is going to change. I'd rather have a league full of mature GMs who have the right attitude about the game that a bunch of inexperienced noobs who have to be watched like a hawk.

again...I am on at various times of the day, and I talk to the other 5 or 6 guys who are online all of the time. There "might" be 10 GMs who use MSN regularily, this isnt just my imagination. I see you on at times, thats great. The point is 2/3 of the GMs never show up or if they do they show up its when everyone else is in bed.
Mature GMs are GMs who take an active role in the league regardless of age. Noobs dont have to be watched like hawks, that is simply choice.
Sometimes change is good.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Cheese

again...I am on at various times of the day, and I talk to the other 5 or 6 guys who are online all of the time. There "might" be 10 GMs who use MSN regularily, this isnt just my imagination. I see you on at times, thats great. The point is 2/3 of the GMs never show up or if they do they show up its when everyone else is in bed.
Mature GMs are GMs who take an active role in the league regardless of age. Noobs dont have to be watched like hawks, that is simply choice.
Sometimes change is good.

At this point we won't be making any GM changes.

Again this is the 2nd time you've returned to the league and have seemingly had issues with how it is now being played.

For the most part feedback I get from our current GMs is they are enjoying things - so I'm confident in how things are working.

I don't mind discussing these issues in this manner - but constant complaining about it - isn't something I want.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

At this point we won't be making any GM changes.

Again this is the 2nd time you've returned to the league and have seemingly had issues with how it is now being played.

For the most part feedback I get from our current GMs is they are enjoying things - so I'm confident in how things are working.

I don't mind discussing these issues in this manner - but constant complaining about it - isn't something I want.

sorry Grant...just thought Id mention what I hear all the time...if you dont want to hear constructive criticism then this league will fail. If you think thats complaining so be it.
Remember you are the Commish...people will tell you what you want to hear.

[Sylvanfan]

Cheese has turned into Johnny Flame! Oooh the ironny if you remember January of 2005.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Cheese

sorry Grant...just thought Id mention what I hear all the time...if you dont want to hear constructive criticism then this league will fail. If you think thats complaining so be it.
Remember you are the Commish...people will tell you what you want to hear.

I can only go by what people tell me - I'm not going to guess. And from what I hear they are happy with the league and appreciate the fact that the league now appreciates that people have busy lives with jobs, relationships and kids to contend with.

If people don't feel that way they are more than welcome to provide me with that feedback.

And no I don't think this league will fail. In fact I think the stability and presence of more long-term GMs has been a positive development.

If people truly want more trading - then they can trade more - it's just that simple. If the appetite is there - it really shouldn't be a problem.

[Antithesis]

While my team is clearly the definition of "more trading does not always equal a good team", I've found trading slow and frustrating lately but a lot of that might be the summer. I don't know.

Generally speaking though, I find that the people who are good with MSN are also good with PMs. I know I've sent a few out over the summer that weren't replied to only to have the GM turn around and make another trade. To be fair ... I usually only PM those that I see online, so that sample is skewed.

A lot of my frustration is probably my own fault though ... I have very specific needs with my team right now, so people looking to send me a 2nd rounder + AHL guy for something else are likely out of luck. I know that makes others frustrated, too, but if I don't need mid-level AHL types, I don't really see much sense in trading for them.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Antithesis

While my team is clearly the definition of "more trading does not always equal a good team", I've found trading slow and frustrating lately but a lot of that might be the summer. I don't know.

Generally speaking though, I find that the people who are good with MSN are also good with PMs. I know I've sent a few out over the summer that weren't replied to only to have the GM turn around and make another trade. To be fair ... I usually only PM those that I see online, so that sample is skewed.

A lot of my frustration is probably my own fault though ... I have very specific needs with my team right now, so people looking to send me a 2nd rounder + AHL guy for something else are likely out of luck. I know that makes others frustrated, too, but if I don't need mid-level AHL types, I don't really see much sense in trading for them.

This is a good post.

When we are examining a lack of trade activity we have to look at the numerous factors.

Some GMs just aren't going to deal for the sake of dealing. There has to be a mutual fit of needs. And what does everyone need right now? Upgrades.

Prospects/picks have limited value.

Teams have built their squads as best they can and for the most part want to see what they will do when games start.

Typically once results start to come in, teams will make moves when they identify other areas of need.

And as the season proceeds other squads will look for experience to go for it - or prospects since they are looking ahead.

But right now - there aren't a lot of fits.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

This is a good post.

When we are examining a lack of trade activity we have to look at the numerous factors.

Some GMs just aren't going to deal for the sake of dealing. There has to be a mutual fit of needs. And what does everyone need right now? Upgrades.

Prospects/picks have limited value.

Teams have built their squads as best they can and for the most part want to see what they will do when games start.

Typically once results start to come in, teams will make moves when they identify other areas of need.

And as the season proceeds other squads will look for experience to go for it - or prospects since they are looking ahead.

But right now - there aren't a lot of fits.

You have a way with words Grant...and yes Antithesis' post was good.
He mentioned specifically that trading was slow and frustrating. There are many teams that could use a good trade that simply aren't around to deal. It has nothing to do with summer, we don't take vacations for 2 or 3 months at a time. Summer is the time to rebuild that crappy team.
He also mentioned that those who used MSN are the ones who are generally good on PMs as well, and I concur. Its hard to gauge what the heck a GM who never posts or comes online wants or needs, but that's just my opinion, good or bad.
Specific needs of individual GMs might be better if more GMs were around more often to talk to?
I have no idea why you see this as a negative or non issue?

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Cheese has turned into Johnny Flame! Oooh the ironny if you remember January of 2005.

you wish!
Johnny was a little more colorful than I am, and quite frankly I liked a lot of what Johnny had to say, he did have some good ideas and I listened to him a lot.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Cheese

You have a way with words Grant...and yes Antithesis' post was good.
He mentioned specifically that trading was slow and frustrating. There are many teams that could use a good trade that simply aren't around to deal. It has nothing to do with summer, we don't take vacations for 2 or 3 months at a time. Summer is the time to rebuild that crappy team.
He also mentioned that those who used MSN are the ones who are generally good on PMs as well, and I concur. Its hard to gauge what the heck a GM who never posts or comes online wants or needs, but that's just my opinion, good or bad.
Specific needs of individual GMs might be better if more GMs were around more often to talk to?
I have no idea why you see this as a negative or non issue?

It's not that I don't see it as a negative or non issue but I also don't think it's fair to make a judgment right now. Moreover I'm not in favor of flipping GMs regularly or punishing them for being patient.

I want to have a crop of long-term GMs that take a long-term approach.

You play the game your way - but not everyone does.

[Swayze11]

I do agree with a lot of what Cheese has been saying. It is pretty frustrating when you send out a bunch of PMs and get maybe 2/10 replies. Not only that but sometimes those replies are "Hey I am really busy at the moment when I get a chance I will take a look"....no reply. Not only that but its also pretty frustrating to get a PM replied to with this: "Sure let me check what I like from your team" only to trade that player you are after 2 days later with no PM back.

The ones I see online a lot are the following:
Aaron
Matt (Stars)
Jeff
Steve
BJ
Ravi
Cheese
Dan
Dave
Joe
Goffie
Ian
Rob
Neil
Curtis
Spike
Curtis
Victor
Trevor
Grant

So that is about 20/30 which is pretty decent but could be a lot better.

I understand PM is an option we should use but when you know you wont get a reply, thats when it becomes extremely frustrating so you don't even bother.

[JiriHrdina]

PM's should be replied too and if they aren't - the league should be notified as to who's not getting back to fellow GMs.

But I would also advise being specific in your PMs. Are you taking a true first step by making an actual offer.

There's a difference between "Hey I like Steve Stamkos what do you want for him" and "Hey I'll give you Drew Douighty and a 2nd for Stamkos - what do you think".

Make a specific offer to start the ball rolling. Too often I find the first step is vague and making me do all the work without any idea of what the other GM is thinking.

But no questions PMs MUST be replied to and not doing that is grounds for firing.

[Antithesis]

Yes, people initiating discussion with "What do you want for __________" is frustrating. You want the guy, make an offer. I'm rarely even close to cordial to conversation starters like that.

[Cheese]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

PM's should be replied too and if they aren't - the league should be notified as to who's not getting back to fellow GMs.

But I would also advise being specific in your PMs. Are you taking a true first step by making an actual offer.

There's a difference between "Hey I like Steve Stamkos what do you want for him" and "Hey I'll give you Drew Douighty and a 2nd for Stamkos - what do you think".

Make a specific offer to start the ball rolling. Too often I find the first step is vague and making me do all the work without any idea of what the other GM is thinking.

But no questions PMs MUST be replied to and not doing that is grounds for firing.

How does a GM have time to play the game using the PM feature and not on MSN? Why is it ok to rat on a GM who doesn't use the PM feature and yet MSN is off grounds?
Why don't the GMs who use the PM feature PM those who don't?
Conversely why is it up to those GMs who are active to make a non active GM play the game via PM?