Mat leave and raises

[Jbo]

Originally Posted by Rathji

That's what I am thinking.



I agree!

How about those handicapped people that you need to build special ramps and have those special stalls built right into the washroom for. I can't believe those people, who inconvenience us normal white men at work, and expect the same things we get.

That's absurd, and they should just suck it up and accept their place in society. We should not have to accommodate them at all, after all they decided to be handicapped.

...

I find it pretty condescending you ask for opinions on this and then post the above after you hear it.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by J-bo09

I find it pretty condescending you ask for opinions on this and then post the above after you hear it.

Yeah, in retrospect, it probably was. Sorry if it came across as snarky, it was out of line.

I should have just pointed out that what you were talking about was discrimination based on sex.

I figured that way was a bit more humorous and gave another widely applied situation where an employer had to spend extra money because a person who worked for them was not a 'standard' employee.

[Jbo]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Yeah, in retrospect, it probably was. Sorry if it came across as snarky, it was out of line.

I should have just pointed out that what you were talking about was discrimination based on sex.

I figured that way was a bit more humorous and gave another widely applied situation where an employer had to spend extra money because a person who worked for them was not a 'standard' employee.

Fair enough. Really the only point I was trying to get at was that women despite being equal or better in the workplace will find challenges due to things like mat leave. While they are gone for a year, there will be people working for a year and climbing the corporate ladder.

I have worked in a job where I was brought in to replace someone on mat leave, and I also have worked in a company where numerous women have gone on mat leave, so I am basically just talking from my experience.

Having said that the only thing I want to touch on is the difference between someone leaving due to pregnancy versus something out of an individuals control like the handicap

[BlackArcher101]

Here's the appropriate excerpt from the Employment Standards Code.

53(7) Where an employee is entitled to resume work under this
section, the employer must
(a) reinstate the employee in the position occupied when
maternity or parental leave started, or
(b) provide the employee with alternative work of a
comparable nature
at not less than the earnings and other benefits that had accrued to
the employee when the maternity or parental leave started.

This is a grey area. Did she or did she not accrue her first raise before her parental leave started? I believe since the raise was never officially given, then it's neither an earning or a benefit by the letter of the law. (ie raises are not accrued, but vacation time/pay is)

[DownhillGoat]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

The law also states that employees shall receive no penalty for taking mat leave. I would think if everyone else is being reviewed and evaluated for raises and she is not because she took maternity leave, that would constitute a penalty.

Not getting a raise is not a penalty. Being decucted pay is.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

Here's the appropriate excerpt from the Employment Standards Code.
This is a grey area. Did she or did she not accrue her first raise before her parental leave started? I believe since the raise was never officially given, then it's neither an earning or a benefit by the letter of the law.

She hadn't received her review yet, and the accompanying raise when the doctor decided she needed to have the baby.

[Rathji]

Originally Posted by kunkstyle

Not getting a raise is not a penalty. Being decucted pay is.

Of course it is a penalty.

Everyone else who performed to a certain level got a raise of a certain amount, anyone who doesn't get that raise, who also performed to that level is penalized.

[Raekwon]

We had a similar situation where ladies on Mat leave were mad when they received their profit sharing cheques and they were based on their gross and not their yearly salary. Why did they think they should get a full profit sharing cheque when they weren't there to help produce the profits?

Also was put in a situation where I started a position a few months behind a girl I worked with. She went on mat leave and came back and kept her seniority putting her ahead of mean even though I had 9 months more experience in that position. Works both ways I guess.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Raekwon

We had a similar situation where ladies on Mat leave were mad when they received their profit sharing cheques and they were based on their gross and not their yearly salary. Why did they think they should get a full profit sharing cheque when they weren't there to help produce the profits?

I dunno. Because the law states that they should not lose out on anything based on being pregnant?

Why is it that men bitch and moan that they are not treated equally in family court when it is the women that actually carry the child for 9 months and go through the trials and tribulations of pregnancy and giving birth? I think that if we're going to play the "sucks to be you game", it should balance out elsewhere.

[Raekwon]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I dunno. Because the law states that they should not lose out on anything based on being pregnant?

Why is it that men bitch and moan that they are not treated equally in family court when it is the women that actually carry the child for 9 months and go through the trials and tribulations of pregnancy and giving birth? I think that if we're going to play the "sucks to be you game", it should balance out elsewhere.

It actually states:

not less than the earnings and other benefits that had accrued to
the employee when the maternity or parental leave started.

So they were not entitled to more becuase the sharing was based on what they earned prior to mat leave.

[Devils'Advocate]

I was just looking up some cases on Google and there seem to be contradictory cases. However, it would seem that those that did receive their profit sharing had to report it to EI and thus lowered their benefits significantly.

Okay, I have sorted out the contradiction. Some received their profit sharing because that is the way their benefits and contract with their employer were stated, not because it is law for the companies to write their contracts that way. I guess it's a good question for women to ask when looking at various employers.

[DOK]

They only have to guarantee your job upon returning from mat leave if you've been with the company for the past 52 weeks. Any shorter than that and they don't need to promise you squat.

Also, men are entitled to take 35 of the 52 weeks of mat leave, called parental leave. Either parent can take it, so it's not really a woman / pregnancy thing. It's just that women generally do take it all, but men can take the full 35 weeks if wanted.

Any money earned during the time off is subject to come off the mat leave pay, so if they got pay outs, it would make sense it would be deducted off what they earned on their leave.

[tete]

Some companies will defer a bonus for people on maternity/parental leave so that it doesn't eff up EI payments. Few companies offer up a "top up" of salary beyond the regular EI payments.

Rathji - I think it's pretty sucky that they didn't take into account that she hadn't had a review in two years. While withholding bonuses can save a company money, it usually backfires on them and just increases resentment and they may lose valuable employees. (I'm not talking about employees who are not doing their job, I'm talking about those who have contributed and do not get a bonus just due to a situation like this).

There are more and more men taking parental leave for at least some period of time - it does make me wonder if attitudes in the business world will shift with regards to leave and such when it's men taking it vs. women.

[Rathji]

Seems like it is just bad timing on our part.

It just seems out of wack to miss 12 months of work and be 2 years behind in raises compared to everyone else. Where as someone who had a baby in October rather than September would have one of those raises.

It really boils down to how set in stone that company policy is to not give raises until your back 6 months, and how valuable they think she is.

[Peanut]

Well, I just came back from mat leave and I've missed two "raises" as well. I did receive a small bonus once while I was away.

Taking mat leave definitely sets you back, career-wise.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Rathji

Seems like it is just bad timing on our part.

It just seems out of wack to miss 12 months of work and be 2 years behind in raises compared to everyone else. Where as someone who had a baby in October rather than September would have one of those raises.

It really boils down to how set in stone that company policy is to not give raises until your back 6 months, and how valuable they think she is.

Well if she doesn't get a raise on this round of reviews she will have awesome leverage on the next round for an uber raise.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Peanut

Well, I just came back from mat leave and I've missed two "raises" as well. I did receive a small bonus once while I was away.

Taking mat leave definitely sets you back, career-wise.

That's pretty nice of them to give you a raise while you were away. As an employer I can tell you I wouldn't dream of doing that.

[bcb]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

I do thank you for having children though, so somebody can pay for my retirement and buy my house.

Me too. Someone's got to fill those school desks.

[Fire]

If women stayed in the kitchen this wouldn't be a problem.

[Ashartus]

A company I used to work for ended up giving out retroactive raises to women who had been on maternity leave after being told that they should have at least been getting the cost of living component of raises and that employees should still be accumulating seniority while on maternity leave. I don't know whether this came from their lawyer or somewhere else though.