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Old 08-25-2010, 02:06 PM   #181
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I find the Tea Party interesting for two reasons. It's clearly operating under Lockean democratic psychology, as in the Right to Revolution when governments overstep their contractual arrangements with citizens and begin to represent a tyranny. It's pretty clear to me that we are engaged in some sort of bureaucratic tyranny of rules in the United States and the Tea Party is clearly a legitimate form of response.

Except the Tea Party members totally reflect our post-modern era in being completely unaware of the philosophical and cultural roots of their own movement and thus, end up looking totally ridiculous.
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Old 08-25-2010, 02:10 PM   #182
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I find the Tea Party interesting for two reasons. It's clearly operating under Lockean democratic psychology, as in the Right to Revolution when governments overstep their contractual arrangements with citizens and begin to represent a tyranny. It's pretty clear to me that we are engaged in some sort of bureaucratic tyranny of rules in the United States and the Tea Party is clearly a legitimate form of response.

Except the Tea Party members totally reflect our post-modern era in being completely unaware of the philosophical and cultural roots of their own movement and thus, end up looking totally ridiculous.
But only because the fringe side of the 'party' is louder than the rest of the people who are just frustrated with their government.
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Old 08-25-2010, 02:11 PM   #183
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And so it begins:
NYC Cabbie Stabbed by Islamophobe

It goes without saying that Newt Gingrich, Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, et al., feel no responsibility for this whatsoever: A New York City cab driver named Ahmed Sharif was stabbed by a passenger who allegedly asked "Are you a Muslim?" before carrying out the attack. When the cab driver said yes, the passenger allegedly pulled out a Leatherman tool and slashed his throat, arm, and lip. Sharif was able to lock the passenger in the back of his car, and is currently in the hospital recovering from his injuries. The passenger, Michael Enright, is a 21-year-old filmmaker who recently returned from Afghanistan. In a statement, Sharif said "I feel very sad. I have been here more than 25 years. I have been driving a taxi more than 15 years. All my four kids were born here. I never feel this hopeless and insecure before."

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...BMdXDBB8TzQe21
I was expecting this with the way the rhetoric has been ramped up, it's getting out of control.

At the same time this serves as a good teaching moment for not painting an entire group of people with one brush due to the actions of a lunatic. This doesn't reflect on everyone opposed to the community center for whatever reason, the same way that the actions of hijackers shouldn't be used to paint all Muslims as terrorists.
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Old 08-25-2010, 02:12 PM   #184
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Conservative columnist says Tea Party is toxic for GOP:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...082405001.html

Most Americans who identify with the Tea Party movement are understandably concerned about the size and reach of government. Their enthusiasm is a clear Republican advantage. But Tea Party populism is just as clearly incompatible with some conservative and Republican beliefs. It is at odds with Abraham Lincoln's inclusive tone and his conviction that government policies could empower individuals. It is inconsistent with religious teaching on government's responsibility to seek the common good and to care for the weak. It does not reflect a Burkean suspicion of radical social change.

The Democratic political nightmare is now obvious and overwhelming. The Republican challenge is different: building a majority on an unstable, slightly cracked foundation.
Great line.

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In the normal course of events, political movements begin as intellectual arguments, often conducted for years in serious books and journals. To study the Tea Party movement, future scholars will sift through the collected tweets of Sarah Palin.
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Old 08-25-2010, 02:13 PM   #185
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I was expecting this with the way the rhetoric has been ramped up, it's getting out of control.

At the same time this serves as a good teaching moment for not painting an entire group of people with one brush due to the actions of a lunatic. This doesn't reflect on everyone opposed to the community center for whatever reason, the same way that the actions of hijackers shouldn't be used to paint all Muslims as terrorists.
I would also be careful, like yourself, to blow this incident into something more than the act of a delusionary madman who just needed "something" to set him off. This doesn't reflect an anti-Muslim attitude among Americans... yet. Although some of the demagogues on the popular right are trying their damndest.
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Old 08-25-2010, 02:18 PM   #186
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And the intellectual reply back ("I have more nutbar fans than you" seemed to be the main point from what I could tell.)


Last edited by chemgear; 08-25-2010 at 02:28 PM.
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Old 08-25-2010, 02:24 PM   #187
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I was expecting this with the way the rhetoric has been ramped up, it's getting out of control.

At the same time this serves as a good teaching moment for not painting an entire group of people with one brush due to the actions of a lunatic. This doesn't reflect on everyone opposed to the community center for whatever reason, the same way that the actions of hijackers shouldn't be used to paint all Muslims as terrorists.
Exactly... I'm hoping this is an isolated incident, but at the same time I'm not surprised that something like this has happened.
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Old 08-25-2010, 02:33 PM   #188
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Actually, I'm not going to lie, I thought that Beck bit was rather entertaining. Keith Olbermann is such a dweeb.
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Old 08-25-2010, 02:50 PM   #189
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Actually, I'm not going to lie, I thought that Beck bit was rather entertaining. Keith Olbermann is such a dweeb.
Really? I'm afraid I don't follow either individual - I came across the original video looking up real estate numbers/fraud of all things. But that seemed like a immature "nah, nah/my dad can beat up your dad/yo' momma!/a Nelson haha!" reply to a well thought out collection of ideas.

By the same token, I guess one might consider Pastor Martin Niemöller "a dweeb" as well.
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Old 08-25-2010, 03:03 PM   #190
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maybe a fata by I haven't seen it in here, The craziest beliefs held by 1 in 5 americans:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/0..._n_691843.html

It leans so far the left I almost fell over reading it, but a good read non the less.
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Old 08-25-2010, 05:21 PM   #191
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And the intellectual reply back ("I have more nutbar fans than you" seemed to be the main point from what I could tell.)

So Keith lied and Beck mocked. I don't see how either contributed much of value to the disagreement.
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Old 08-25-2010, 07:14 PM   #192
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Huh? Where was I talking about war-mongering?
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Old 08-25-2010, 07:17 PM   #193
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Huh? Where was I talking about war-mongering?
Right wing = evil war mongers.
Left wing = enlightened peace loving people.

Our good friend Peter threw a little wrench into that argument as Lyndon Johnson was involved with the Vietnam fiasco.

Not to say that you actually believe what I just said, but a lot of people do.
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Old 08-25-2010, 07:40 PM   #194
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Half way down the page on the left.

http://www.knssradio.com/pages/25571...7ViewResults=1

Of course this is the local station that runs Limbaugh, Hannity and Levin, but the local guy in the morning is quite left leaning for our area. He pretty much told his audience the other morning that they were stupid. I laughed. At that time, it was only 60% muslim.

Wichita, KS...what a progressive town!
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Old 08-25-2010, 07:43 PM   #195
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That's a little harsh - do you believe LBJ's true intention was to create a 'full scale war' in Vietnam from the beginning?
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Old 08-25-2010, 08:04 PM   #196
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Liberal commies did that all the time in the 60's and 70's and were the political basis of many superpower third world proxy armies in those same time periods.

Nutjobs are nutjobs.

Cowperson
The problem is today the Right's nut jobs are considered mainstream by many in the Republican/Tea Party.
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Old 08-25-2010, 08:12 PM   #197
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The problem is today the Right's nut jobs are considered mainstream by many in the Republican/Tea Party.
I think that's true of the left as well though, at least in the US.
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Old 08-25-2010, 08:32 PM   #198
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That's a little harsh - do you believe LBJ's true intention was to create a 'full scale war' in Vietnam from the beginning?

Actually, the part I object to is calling LBJ "left wing."
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Old 08-25-2010, 09:18 PM   #199
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Actually, the part I object to is calling LBJ "left wing."
Okay I'll bite. How in the world is a democratic president that brings about the "Great Society Program" not left wing? A lot of what he did screams left wing socialism.
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Old 08-25-2010, 10:01 PM   #200
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That's a little harsh - do you believe LBJ's true intention was to create a 'full scale war' in Vietnam from the beginning?

Nope, he was too incompetent to actually fight a war. After reading several books on the Vietnam war lately the only thing we can accuse that administration of is gross incompetence and stupidity.
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