Tamil Migrant Ship M/V Sun Sea will arrive Canada by Aug 14th

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

And the west coast heroin trade.

Pretty sure the west coast was using heroin before the Vietnamese showed up.

[Pinner]

Originally Posted by Canuck-Hater

As long as the Canadian Government can separate the criminals from the legitimate refugees, Im fine with it.

The question I have is, can refugees pay back $50,000 to these gangsters without becoming criminals ?

And why are we allowing gangsters to make $20,000,000 dropping illegals off on our shores, costing taxpayers $50,000,000 ?

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Pretty sure the west coast was using heroin before the Vietnamese showed up.

Yeah, it seems like a kinda weak (and xenophobic) excuse to blame Vancouver's burgeoning heroin problem onAnh Dung and his "immoral" reasons for fleeing a country filled with violence and communist oppression.

White people didn't want heroin till those gawd-awful vietnamese and their temptress Eastern ways showed up!

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Pretty sure the west coast was using heroin before the Vietnamese showed up.

True, but many gang members were brought over around the same time the the influx of boat people arrived.

I personally know a guy in Victoria from Vietnam who paid a crime gang to get him forged documents to get into Canada and now he sells heroin to pay off the debt (which will never be paid off). I know this because a good friend of mine was a customer of his. From what I heard, he had the best intentions when he came over, but didn't learn about his end of the bargain until he was already here.

That's the only thing that bothers me. I have nothing against refugees and immigrants (my parent came as polical refugees), but I have everything against human smugglers and organized crime. Where is all the money going that they paid? What kind of things is it funding? And how much more will be made if we keep allowing it to happen?

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

This "if we allow one, we are going to be overrun" theory seems a little far fetched given that the Sikh ship that landed in Nova Scotia is the last time I remember so many people landing at once. And that was decades ago. If we allowed the Sikh's to be processed and stay as refugee's why haven't we been overrun with ships landing in the last 20 years or so?

This landing by boatloads is very rare given the cost and dangers involved. Most people would take refuge closer to home rather than risk the long trip.

I would argue that in this particular instance we are much more likely to be 'overrun' than with other groups. Canada already has the largest Sri Lankan Tamil population outside of Sri Lanka in the world. It's pretty clear that this already landed population is conscienciously providing funding, legal help, et al with the intent on smuggling more Tamils into Canada. This is the second ship in less than a year.

As much as I'm sure that many migrants do face persecution in Sri Lanka if they were sent back, I'm also certain that a good number of them are also Tigers or connected to the Tigers (How else did they come up with the $50,000 per head to come here). Identifying them as Tigers or as connected as Tigers will prove next to impossible too and most of them will be allowed to live here regardless. All the more reason to toughen laws and take a more 'Australia' type approach.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

If I were living in a place where there is "widespread occurrences of disappearances, mass murders and extortion", then I would be willing to sacrifice every last bit of my personal savings to get my family the hell out of there, even if it was paying the devil to do it. I don't think that makes me a horrible human being. And I don't see how it means I wouldn't be a law abiding citizen once I got to a peaceful nation.

If they are LTTE members they are bad people if they are not LTTE members I dont think anyone said they were bad people.

Canada has laws and they need to be followed otherwise what is the point? If I tell you it is against the law to speed but once I catch you there are no consequences, everyone would speed. That is exactly what is happening now.

If they were true refugees why didnt they make an application to the UN in Thailand and wait to be accepted by a country somewhere in the world? Canada has international commitments to bring in recognized refugees from around the world. Why didn't they stand in line with the rest of them? Instead they jumped the line and have now made the legitimate refugees that have been waiting to be accepted now wait even longer.

How do you thing those refugees feel? The ones that can't afford $20000+ dollars to come to Canada? There are only so many people in this world that we can help. Yes, we are lucky to have everything in Canada that we have and a lot of Canadians do not have a clue how lucky we are. Compared to others in this world it may seem like extreme excess, but that is just how the world is. And the world runs on rules and laws and they need to be followed.

If we just put these people on a plane and sent them back to where they came from they wouldn't even bother coming illegally in boat loads. They would know that once they got here they would be making a quick trip back and there would be no profit for these human traffickers.

As it stands now, Canada is just sending a message to the world that if you make it here you will be allowed to stay.

What is worse is if there are LTTE members on that boat, they will most likely be in Canada for ever. Why? Because Canada does not return people to another country if they are at risk for death and torture even if they are a terrorist. If we sent a LTTE member back to Sri Lanka they would likely suffer death or torture. So the best place for a terrorist to go if they face such risk is to Canada. Canadians are a bunch of suckers and it needs to be changed.

[henriksedin33]

Originally Posted by Canuck-Hater

As long as the Canadian Government can separate the criminals from the legitimate refugees, Im fine with it.

They won't even be able to identify the captain/crew. Completely incompetent.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by henriksedin33

They won't even be able to identify the captain/crew. Completely incompetent.

Well it isn't just that...

If you've got a room full of 500 people all saying the same thing (or told to say the same thing, lest the rest of their family back home be killed) - who likely don't speak a word of English (or will pretend not to) and probably wont have a piece of ID on them, how do you separate the terrorists/criminals from the rest of the population?

It's a nearly impossible task and a game Canada shouldn't be playing.

[Byrns]

Interesting...

To become a refugee, a claimant must prove they are in danger of torture, there is a risk to their life or meet other criteria showing they will face persecution in their home country. Yet this did not stop over 70% of successful Tamil refugee claimants surveyed from returning to Sri Lanka for vacations, business or to sponsor family members.

http://www.calgarysun.com/news/canad.../15098816.html

[SeeBass]

just throw the captain in prison on every boat, end of problem

he is profiting from this I would assume

[henriksedin33]

Tamil migrants 'taken aback' by jail stay: lawyer

Some thought they'd be able to explore Canada 'the next day' after arriving

Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/canada/british-col...#ixzz0xMPxtcoS

on who's dollar, I wonder?

[Codes]

I was "taken aback" after reading that article. I was actually quite upset that these people believe our immigration system works like this. I feel sorry for them, because all of a sudden their short term dreams are dashed, but I'm also angry that they think they can set foot on Canadian soil and go on an "adventure" with out due process.

You know, there's a website out there called notcanada.com created by immigrants who have discovered that it's not all rainbows and fluffy bunny rabbits over here, and are trying to deter people from immigrating to Canada. I hate the site because they often unfairly paint Canada in negative fashion (though there are some legitimate beefs), but maybe I should be promoting the site so immigrants actually know what's in store for them when they land in Canada.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Codes

I was "taken aback" after reading that article. I was actually quite upset that these people believe our immigration system works like this. I feel sorry for them, because all of a sudden their short term dreams are dashed, but I'm also angry that they think they can set foot on Canadian soil and go on an "adventure" with out due process.

You know, there's a website out there called notcanada.com created by immigrants who have discovered that it's not all rainbows and fluffy bunny rabbits over here, and are trying to deter people from immigrating to Canada. I hate the site because they often unfairly paint Canada in negative fashion (though there are some legitimate beefs), but maybe I should be promoting the site so immigrants actually know what's in store for them when they land in Canada.

That website doesn't exist anymore. Maybe the internet archives has it.

[Codes]

Thanks, Hack&Lube. It has been a long time since I looked it up, and I didn't realize it had been shutdown. My appolgies.

Essentially, it was a collection of stories from immigrants who had negative experiences after immigrating to Canada. Some had legitimate grievences, while others simply did not research Canada well enough, and were consequently disappointed with the country (ie: weather).

There were accusations that "imigration recruiters" were preying upong people immigrating to Canada. They would hire these firms to simplify the process for them (papers, etc), but in the end the process would be much more difficult and expensive than what they were lead to belive.

One beef that many immigrants had (and I agree with them) was when professionals (engineers, doctors etc) did not realize (or realize how much it would cost) to certify their credentials to Canadian standards. Apparently it is quite expensive to undertake the recertitifcation process and examinations. While I agree it's important to ensure that these skills are legitimate and up to our standards, the process shouldn't be hellish, and it shouldn't result in doctors working as janitors, and engineers working as mechanics.

It was a sad combination of naiivity and poor research that often lead to alot of these negative outcomes.

[NuclearFart]

Originally Posted by Codes

One beef that many immigrants had (and I agree with them) was when professionals (engineers, doctors etc) did not realize (or realize how much it would cost) to certify their credentials to Canadian standards. Apparently it is quite expensive to undertake the recertitifcation process and examinations. While I agree it's important to ensure that these skills are legitimate and up to our standards, the process shouldn't be hellish, and it shouldn't result in doctors working as janitors, and engineers working as mechanics.

It was a sad combination of naiivity and poor research that often lead to alot of these negative outcomes.

Trust me, there are very, very good reasons why the recertification standards for doctors are so thorough. It's very challenging and resource intensive to maintain a quality medical teaching program, especially over the length of time required for each trainee. The overwhelming amount of IMG's (international medical graduates) come from countrys lacking that kind of medical/educational infrastructure - why do you think they want to immigrate here in the first place? Sadly, the result by our standards is incompetence, because their formative training and subsequent practice standards were so poor. If they are truly good enough, they shouldn't have any trouble passing our exams, and these supposed 'financial barriers' are purely transient.

Not being an engineer I can't comment first hand, but I do know I want the bridges/buildings/etc I use to have been designed by someone certifiably competent.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by henriksedin33

on who's dollar, I wonder?

Jeez thats awful, I'm pretty sure it would take us half a day to fuel up their ship and load it with enough food and water for a trip home.

[Codes]

Originally Posted by NuclearFart

Trust me, there are very, very good reasons why the recertification standards for doctors are so thorough. It's very challenging and resource intensive to maintain a quality medical teaching program, especially over the length of time required for each trainee. The overwhelming amount of IMG's (international medical graduates) come from countrys lacking that kind of medical/educational infrastructure - why do you think they want to immigrate here in the first place? Sadly, the result by our standards is incompetence, because their formative training and subsequent practice standards were so poor. If they are truly good enough, they shouldn't have any trouble passing our exams, and these supposed 'financial barriers' are purely transient.

Not being an engineer I can't comment first hand, but I do know I want the bridges/buildings/etc I use to have been designed by someone certifiably competent.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not implying the programs should be scrapped, or weakened. My only hope is that migrants get the proper and correct information they need before they leave their home country.

[Azure]

I think a better bet would be to get 1st generation Canadians great opportunities to get into med school, engineering school, law school.

Immigration is a tough call either way. I'm just glad that our government still seems to have some common sense instead of being like the US, who chooses to turn a blind eye to a serious problem because of political reasons.

[Mad Mel]

Originally Posted by Ducay

And shady characters like Jackie Tran

Randomly round up 50,000 Canadians who don't like the boat people and you'll get a Jackie Tran or two in there too.

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

If they were true refugees why didnt they make an application to the UN in Thailand and wait to be accepted by a country somewhere in the world?

There's a very simple answer to that. Thai prisons are likely where they would end up. And Thai prisons are not the country club that Canadian ones are. If I were one of the refugees, I wouldn't be leaving the boat in Bangkok either.

[mykalberta]

I really hoping Canada is seizing the ship so we can sell it to recoup some of the costs of this bs scene.