A good example of why the religious suck

[Codes]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

I think a fair debate would be that if there was no religion we would be colonizing space right now. I know you wouldn't agree but IMHO religion has held back the advances of humanity.

I was a little afraid to post this sentiment earlier, but I completely agree. It's especially troubling when leaders of technologically advanced nations such as Canada and the US allows religion or misguided moral objection to get in the way of allocating appropriate funds to new frontiers in science, and support expanding fields. Though, there is a lot more to it than religion - I'd argue corporations do what they can to stifle advancements in fields that would hurt their bottom line.

But, then again, at the same time, the general public is also a hindrance. I read a lot of articles under the Technology and Science section at CBC, and it's always interesting to see what people say about the research. A lot of the time they don't understand it, and feel that it's a complete waste of money. I also know that a lot of people feel that investing in space research (for example) is a waste of money. And anything to do with vaccines, or drug research is instantly demonized as "big pharma". I guess it's hard for the average person to justify their tax dollars being spent on seemingly meaningless and abstract research when hospital wait times are an all-time high, and we're in an economic slump.

Oops, went a little off-topic, but yes, I agree with the sentiment that religion has held back the advancement of our race.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

And persecuted by the Church for his scientific beliefs?

Don't see how that changes the fact that he was still deeply religious, and accomplished a lot for humanity.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

I think a fair debate would be that if there was no religion we would be colonizing space right now. I know you wouldn't agree but IMHO religion has held back the advances of humanity.

Prove it.

Oh right, you can't.

So your argument holds absolutely no water and is just another attempt at more ridiculous religious bashing.

Human advancement in the fields of science isn't being held back because the fundamentals in the southern US don't believe in evolution. You can argue that teaching intelligent design to kids might prohibit humanity from advancing, but how many kids are taught intelligent design? Some of the greatest scientific work is being done in Europe, and Europe is VERY secular.

[BloodFetish]

Originally Posted by Azure

Prove it.

Oh right, you can't.

So your argument holds absolutely no water and is just another attempt at more ridiculous religious bashing.

Human advancement in the fields of science isn't being held back because the fundamentals in the southern US don't believe in evolution. You can argue that teaching intelligent design to kids might prohibit humanity from advancing, but how many kids are taught intelligent design? Some of the greatest scientific work is being done in Europe, and Europe is VERY secular.

Statements like "prove it" in a discussion about religion are laughable.
Prove there is a god. Prove there is no god. Puh-lease.

Regarding organized religion holding back advancement in science, stem cell research comes immediately to mind.

[Mad Mel]

I don't argue that organised religion has held back research in some fields, but the idea that we'd have colonised space by now is pretty laughable. We're at least a century away from that happening in my opinion. We haven't done anything more sophisticated than drive a Tonka toy around Mars as yet, and that's got nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with us not being nearly as smart as we like to think we are. The logical question is: should we even colonise space? We're doing a pretty good job of f-ing this planet over (we're soooo smrt), should we really take the show on the road?

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by Mad Mel

I don't argue that organised religion has held back research in some fields, but the idea that we'd have colonised space by now is pretty laughable. We're at least a century away from that happening in my opinion. We haven't done anything more sophisticated than drive a Tonka toy around Mars as yet, and that's got nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with us not being nearly as smart as we like to think we are. The logical question is: should we even colonise space? We're doing a pretty good job of f-ing this planet over (we're soooo smrt), should we really take the show on the road?

An interesting read about colonizing other planets:

http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog...ier_redux.html

Basically, we only have our solar system to choose from in the near and far future, and I can't see any type of large scale colonization with terra-forming being able to take place until well over 100 years. Believing we could have colonized other planets by now if not for religion is a ridiculous belief. Who's to say, if not for religion, would we even be bothering to look at the stars? Staring off into space and forming astronomical thoughts as part of myth was one of the earliest practices of religion the world over.

[peter12]

How is colonizing space advancing the interests of humanity? We live on Earth, why escape?

And I am more in favour of more moral objections to science, not less. Imagine if there had been more Christian pacifists on the Manhattan Project!

[mikey_the_redneck]

I have nothing to say about the religious part of this discussion, but I wondered why we have not built space ships that are nuclear powered. With a massive power supply, you would think they could take us alot further in space.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by Azure

Prove it.

Oh right, you can't.

So your argument holds absolutely no water and is just another attempt at more ridiculous religious bashing.

Human advancement in the fields of science isn't being held back because the fundamentals in the southern US don't believe in evolution. You can argue that teaching intelligent design to kids might prohibit humanity from advancing, but how many kids are taught intelligent design? Some of the greatest scientific work is being done in Europe, and Europe is VERY secular.

Well no kidding I cant prove it.

I did state IMHO. It was not an argument just an opinion. Perhaps you mistake an argument for what I am considering a discussion.

If you are going to use the southern US as your example them I think we are on two different planes of thought here.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by Mad Mel

I don't argue that organised religion has held back research in some fields, but the idea that we'd have colonised space by now is pretty laughable. We're at least a century away from that happening in my opinion. We haven't done anything more sophisticated than drive a Tonka toy around Mars as yet, and that's got nothing to do with religion, and everything to do with us not being nearly as smart as we like to think we are. The logical question is: should we even colonise space? We're doing a pretty good job of f-ing this planet over (we're soooo smrt), should we really take the show on the road?

So in your opinion religion has held back science for only 100 years?

Ok but I dont agree I would think it would be larger than that.

A good example was when women were trying to read and explore science and they were acused of witchcraft and killed for it. Nothing like taking out half of your brain supply.

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

So in your opinion religion has held back science for only 100 years?

Ok but I dont agree I would think it would be larger than that.

A good example was when women were trying to read and explore science and they were acused of witchcraft and killed for it. Nothing like taking out half of your brain supply.

You honestly believe the only variable involved in the progress of scientific discovery has been religion?

[Mad Mel]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

An interesting read about colonizing other planets:

http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog...ier_redux.html

...

Staring off into space and forming astronomical thoughts as part of myth was one of the earliest practices of religion the world over.

'Twas an interesting read. As far as our stargazing tendancies go, might be religion... might be that ever since the aliens dumped us here, we've been gazing wistfully for their return.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by peter12

How is colonizing space advancing the interests of humanity? We live on Earth, why escape?

Humanity has always advanced because it is curious.

Humanity started in Africa. Why escape that continent?

Ultimately, humanity will have to leave Earth if it is to survive. The Sun will die. This is so far in the future though, we might not recognize our descendants.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

I have nothing to say about the religious part of this discussion, but I wondered why we have not built space ships that are nuclear powered. With a massive power supply, you would think they could take us alot further in space.

Propulsion systems of the future:

http://www.nasa.gov/vision/space/tra...ropulsion.html

[HPLovecraft]

Originally Posted by troutman

Humanity started in Africa. Why escape that continent?

Ultimately, humanity will have to leave Earth if it is to survive. The Sun will die. This is so far in the future though, we might not recognize our descendants.

If we have any descendants left to even recognize . . . and that may be because of religion, or it may be because of science. Or a mix of both.

[Mad Mel]

Originally Posted by SeeBass

So in your opinion religion has held back science for only 100 years?

Ok but I dont agree I would think it would be larger than that.

A good example was when women were trying to read and explore science and they were acused of witchcraft and killed for it. Nothing like taking out half of your brain supply.

What? Where did I say that? I said that we're at least 100 years from doing any vacation trips other planets, and religion isn't the reason for it. Religion hasn't held back science with respect to space travel since we started gallivanting around our solar system 50 or so years ago.

Are you saying that you think that religion has held science back so that we are scientifically ######ed by a century? Hell, a century ago we were still moving people around on our own planet by railway, we weren't even bright enough to figure out how to pack them into airplanes. Yet, without religion we'd have colonised space?

With respect to your example, that's an example of just how stupid the human race is. Religion has often been a mechanism to deliver the stupidity, but is not the cause... mankind is the cause.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by HPLovecraft

You honestly believe the only variable involved in the progress of scientific discovery has been religion?

No I don't.

But can you think of a man made variable that would beat it?

I can't.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by Mad Mel

What? Where did I say that? I said that we're at least 100 years from doing any vacation trips other planets, and religion isn't the reason for it. Religion hasn't held back science with respect to space travel since we started gallivanting around our solar system 50 or so years ago.

Are you saying that you think that religion has held science back so that we are scientifically ######ed by a century? Hell, a century ago we were still moving people around on our own planet by railway, we weren't even bright enough to figure out how to pack them into airplanes. Yet, without religion we'd have colonised space?

With respect to your example, that's an example of just how stupid the human race is. Religion has often been a mechanism to deliver the stupidity, but is not the cause... mankind is the cause.

My OPINION is that we should have been in space hundreds of years ago but religion had dragged it down for centuries. We should have had the advancements sooner than the dates we did. How many men of science had ideas oppressed by religion through the centuries.

I think you are just being optuse to win an argument.

[burn_this_city]

Its obtuse, and you're making an argument that is impossible to confirm. You also fail to recognize that religious organizations have also preserved knowledge through the ages. The Islamic empire during the dark ages is one example that comes to mind. They transcribed thousands of texts from latin and greek into arabic which survived while that same knowledge was lost or forgotten in Europe.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by Mad Mel

What? Where did I say that? I said that we're at least 100 years from doing any vacation trips other planets, and religion isn't the reason for it. Religion hasn't held back science with respect to space travel since we started gallivanting around our solar system 50 or so years ago.

Are you saying that you think that religion has held science back so that we are scientifically ######ed by a century? Hell, a century ago we were still moving people around on our own planet by railway, we weren't even bright enough to figure out how to pack them into airplanes. Yet, without religion we'd have colonised space?

With respect to your example, that's an example of just how stupid the human race is. Religion has often been a mechanism to deliver the stupidity, but is not the cause... mankind is the cause.

Excactly what I am trying to say, just not as well as John Lennon, Imagine no religion for mankind to be stupid with.
But to be honest we would just replace it with something else I would assume.